XXL Guide to Feral PvP: Cataclysm Edition

[axxey]

2v2 with a ret you should rarely be going bear, you shouldn't be opening before the ret and the ret shouldn't be hammering your kill target early.
Vs double dps don't forget to cyclone still. Vs healer dps don't forget that cycloned targets can't be healed, don't be afraid to cyclone dps to relieve pressure before CCing heals. Vs healer/dps always always kill the dps unless there's obvious very squishy other options.

Also remember survival instincts works just fine in cat not just bear(surprising number of people dont realise this). If you're being forced into bear before making use of your high burst + first instant cyclone alongside the ret burst then your opening is being screwed up some.

---------- Post added 2011-09-13 at 08:58 PM ----------

Hand of protection, cyclone, run away healing and reset fight also works.

[Deleted]

I don't open first, let the the ol' ret do that. Im just finding double dps are switching to me in most games as they know how dangerous I am, I do try to stagger my use of defensive cooldowns and me and my partner do try to chain cc.

[Deleted]

Nice guide for beginners... Good effort!

[Tyresta]

Is mighty agility enchant better than landslide? I know it's random but that's alot of attack power.

[Duilliath]

Yes. By miles.

1) The agi is constant.
2) Landslide needs a massive uptime to compete with +130 agi for Ferals in a PvE situation. Even there +130 agi wins. In a PvP situation it's even worse as it's entirely possible/likely to lose the proc due to getting CCed or simply not being on target.
3) Agi gives crit. Landslide doesn't.
4) Agi gives dodge. Landslide doesn't.
5) Agi helps your survivability if you have to go bearform. Landslide doesn't.

Even if, from a pure DPS point of view, Landslide would be worth it, 3-5 would still make +130 agi the prefered choice.

[Neazy]

my ferals about to hit 85 and I have a question about my spec. right now it looks like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZfrMf...zMcz:M0zricm0z

but I'm still not sure about the last 2 points. my first thought was 2/3 perseverance, but now I'm thinking 2/3 thick hide might be better. the 4% less damage against casters is nice for sure, but it's not really gamebreaking. 7% more armor and 4% less chance to be crit by melees is already nice on its own, and then once you factor in the 52% extra armor in bear you really gain a ton of survivability. now I know most melees aren't gonna touch you while you're in bear, but I was specifically thinking about warriors and rogues. I play a rogue, and I know that if I train a feral hard enough he has to go bear, meaning he can't do any damage, and from there I can put up find weakness (-50% armor) to finish him off. thick hide could really help against the find weakness/colossus smash pain train.

sound logical or do casters really own ferals that much that you need perseverance?

[Duilliath]

Spec looks fine at first glance. Last two points are up to personal preference / team setup. I went with Furry Swipes for more pressure. You can easily take Perseverance to get a bit more survivability against Wizards. I'd prefer this over Thick Hide at least. Bearform + dodge = poor melees already.

[Neazy]

thanks for the reply but I was wondering how much thick hide would help against rogue/warrior cooldowns. let's assume I'm stunned so I can't dodge and they have find weakness/colossus smash on me. how much damage would thick hide reduce?

perseverance would def be more useful against most other classes, but it's only 4% so it's not game-breaking or anything. if thick hide turns out to be like a 10%+ damage reduction against 2 classes that like to train ferals then I would rather take that since it makes a bigger difference even tho there's more casters than there are warriors and rogues. but if it turns out to be not worth that much yea I'll probly take perseverance.

[Tyresta]

Thanks Duilliath

[Balduvian]

Glad to see there's someone taking over my guide when I'm unable to be online for a few days. Cheers Duilliath.

@ Neazy, basically anything Duilliath stated is right. You could also throw the 2 points in Primal Madness, like I do myself. But honestly, the 2 you left out are floater-points. Either Primal Madness/Thick Hide/Perseverance/Fury Swipes will do fine, depending on your comp and playstyle.

About the damage reduction from 2/3 Thick Hide vs. Colossus Smash/Find Weakness. If you have say 1000 armor, Thick Hide would increase that ammount by 26/52/78% in Bear Form (at 2 points it will be 1520). When Colossus Smash is used on you, it will reduce that ammount by 50%, making it 760.

I'm not entirely sure this is the way it goes, but it's the way it seems to work for me.

[Duilliath]

I was just waiting for an opportunity to usurp your reign!

[axxey]

The crit reduction has a huge impact that's harder to quantify than the pure DR of the armor %.

[Duilliath]

Sure, but fact remains it's melee only. I rather get a bit more clearance against casters or just put out a bit more pressure if I feel I can survive well enough.

[Balduvian]

Yep. Out of all viable arena classes, Feral Druids have the best defense against melee already as it is when in Bear Form. There's really no need for Thick Hide unless your Battlegroup/Rating is somehow really crowded with melee-cleaves in 3v3. Then again, there are 2 floater-talents anyway, and you have 3-4 viable options to throw them in.

I was just waiting for an opportunity to usurp your reign!

I knew it!

[Neazy]

Glad to see there's someone taking over my guide when I'm unable to be online for a few days. Cheers Duilliath.

@ Neazy, basically anything Duilliath stated is right. You could also throw the 2 points in Primal Madness, like I do myself. But honestly, the 2 you left out are floater-points. Either Primal Madness/Thick Hide/Perseverance/Fury Swipes will do fine, depending on your comp and playstyle.

About the damage reduction from 2/3 Thick Hide vs. Colossus Smash/Find Weakness. If you have say 1000 armor, Thick Hide would increase that ammount by 26/52/78% in Bear Form (at 2 points it will be 1520). When Colossus Smash is used on you, it will reduce that ammount by 50%, making it 760.

I'm not entirely sure this is the way it goes, but it's the way it seems to work for me.

thanks for the help but I know how armor works, what I was looking for was the actual damage reduction numbers. doesn't look like anyone's calculated that tho.

[axxey]

thanks for the help but I know how armor works, what I was looking for was the actual damage reduction numbers. doesn't look like anyone's calculated that tho.

Was something like 16% difference in bear form DR vs melee with 3 points(from 48% to 64%), i didn't test the 2 points from memory. The crit % reduction much harder to quantify.

[Neazy]

is that 16% on your char sheet (ie: going from 50% to 66% or something similar)? if it is, that would actually be a lot more than 16% less damage taken. I might be interested in taking those talents if that's the case.

[Raugnaut]

I have a few questions regarding to a few things in 2v2 arena. Im partnered with a BM hunter, and I would like to ask a few things.

1: If my partner is being focused on by melee, should I use thorns on my partner? Also, Root or Cyclone on the melee?
2: How much uptime should Lifebloom have?
3: Should I use rejuvenation?
4: Should I dispel poisons/curses? If yes, which should I dispel?
5: For a Healer/Dps combo, should we CC heals and go for the dps, or CC dps and go for the heals?
6: For CC, we try to have something like Scatter-Cyclone-Icetrap-Stun-Stun-root-Scatter-Cyclone, if possible. Should that be in a different order?
7: What pet should the hunter have?
8: If I am being focused, I go into bear. Should I try to put run and HoT, or stay and fight?
9: Finally, should I use Savage Roar at all? or should I have my combo points for Rip/Maim/FB?

[Balduvian]

is that 16% on your char sheet (ie: going from 50% to 66% or something similar)? if it is, that would actually be a lot more than 16% less damage taken. I might be interested in taking those talents if that's the case.

In my case, with 3 talents, I go from 49.17% --> 65.45%. But really, it's only against melee, and it's not like any feral team should lose against any melee-cleave.

I have a few questions regarding to a few things in 2v2 arena. Im partnered with a BM hunter, and I would like to ask a few things.

1: If my partner is being focused on by melee, should I use thorns on my partner? Also, Root or Cyclone on the melee?
2: How much uptime should Lifebloom have?
3: Should I use rejuvenation?
4: Should I dispel poisons/curses? If yes, which should I dispel?
5: For a Healer/Dps combo, should we CC heals and go for the dps, or CC dps and go for the heals?
6: For CC, we try to have something like Scatter-Cyclone-Icetrap-Stun-Stun-root-Scatter-Cyclone, if possible. Should that be in a different order?
7: What pet should the hunter have?
8: If I am being focused, I go into bear. Should I try to put run and HoT, or stay and fight?
9: Finally, should I use Savage Roar at all? or should I have my combo points for Rip/Maim/FB?

1. Thorns damage is decent. Though, I know A LOT of people don't use it, and I personally don't really use it frequently either. I'd say give it a try and see if it's worth the 2-3 seconds of time compared to what you could've done otherwise.

2. There's no specific number on how much up time Lifebloom should have as Feral. IF you heal however (in any combo), Lifebloom should be the first heal to use. In your case, use it every time when you and/or your hunter are able to LoS/run away from being focused.

3. Sometimes. If you or your hunter manages to run away from being focused, stack up Lifebloom first, and Rejuvenation if you still got time left. I suggest looking at this video: 2700+ Feral Druids run 2300+ double Feral (By Qtpoppinlol & Wushinomx). Of course this is another setup, but it shows quite well how/when to use heals in a 2 DPS combo as Feral.

4. Poisons? Not really any poison is worth the time to dispell. Curses? A few. Especially Hex (Shaman) should be watched at, and sometimes Curse of Exhaustion (Warlock) as well.

5. Depends on the setup. Holy Paladin? You usually go for the DPS. Resto Shaman/Druid? You usually go for the Shaman/Druid. Disc Priest? They usually run with a DK, Mage and sometimes Rogue. In the case of the Rogue/Mage, go for that one. In case of the DK, go for the Priest.

6. Scatter/Trap/Cyclone should be easier than Scatter/Cyclone/Trap. Furthermore, 2 stuns in a row is possible, but note that they will share DR. Using one of them on the start might be a better idea so the other one along the CC-cycle will have it's full duration as well.

7. I've been playing Hunter for 4 years, but honestly I wouldn't know. This is a Feral Guide after all. I'd guess a Monkey is quite nice, or maybe a Spider/Crab? If you want to be sure, ask some good Hunters instead.

8. Your Hunter can easily peel for you, enabling you to run away and Lifebloom/Rejuv up once every while. You should try to stay in Cat Form as much as you can.

9. You do you use it, sometimes. You can use it in 3 cases:
- When you are switching and have CP left on the other target. (However, at 5 CP I'd still prefer a Maim --> Switch or Rip --> Switch for more pressure).
- When you really need that PS proc for an Instant Heal/Cyclone.
- Sometimes when you're setting up burst with trinket/Berserk/SR.

[Neazy]

In my case, with 3 talents, I go from 49.17% --> 65.45%.

interesting. that's really ~35% less damage taken in bear form (originally 49, 35% of 49 is about 16%, 16 + 49 = 65). plus you also have to account for the 10% extra armor affecting you in cat form, meaning you can stay in cat longer while melee beat on you.

sounds better to me than 4% less spell damage taken.

But really, it's only against melee, and it's not like any feral team should lose against any melee-cleave.

it's not so much losing to a melee cleave, but losing to RLS or RMP. against RMP if you do your job and train the mage, the rogue is doing most of the damage. locks will get their damage even if you train them, but the rogue brings all the burst, which is the damage that actually kills you. reducing their damage is far from useless.