Two weeks of grinding Throne of The Tides

[Abandon]

Since you can't seem to put 2 and 2 together I'm going to do it for you, are you ready for this?
I assumed the OP was in a raid(see previous post) at which point a balance druid (who would have been master looter) stole a tanking trinket from him. Which would be against the ToS assuming that the loot rules of the raid was MS>OS and clearly stated.

Congratulations on missing the point once again. What you just described was not ninja looting, it was a loot scam. The difference between them is explained in the article about Ninja Looting and Loot Scamming that you quoted but obviously never bothered reading.

That would be ninja looting, taking an item that shouldn't belong to you without the permission of the raid which would entitle him to make a ticket, retrieve the item and give the ninja a ban.

*sigh*

Since you clearly never bothered reading the very clear explanations of what the difference between Ninja Looting and Loot Scamming is, and are still saying the wrong thing over and over, I'll give you the link again.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/artic...rticleId=17761

Now. Read them. Then you can learn what the difference between Ninja Looting and a Loot Scam is.

[Deleted]

Its not a raid, its a 5 man.

Probably a LFD pug

It was not stolen, ninja'd or scammed off of him.

Please read and comprehend the post before you start screaming your head off that others are wrong and that the other person should be banned.

Perhaps you didn't read what I put:

I assumed the OP was in a raid

*sigh*

Since you clearly never bothered reading the very clear explanations of what the difference between Ninja Looting and Loot Scamming is, and are still saying the wrong thing over and over, I'll give you the link again.

*sigh*

Since you clearly never bothered reading the very clear explanations of my point and are still saying this over and over again I'll quote myself again

I assumed the OP was in a raid

My point still stands, and my point is this:
If you are in a raid and the master loot rules are clearly defined at which point the master looter decides to steal a trinket you have the right to open a ticket and report the issue to a GM at which point the item will be given to you and the offender will be banned for breaching the code of conduct.

[Deleted]

thats life sometime if is nice and sometime you find a ninja life with it just remember now you can just go raiding and get some epics

[Deleted]

I got this on my first run - this isnt me going ooooo im great, I just mean keep going, its pretty decent, I still have it above most other trinkets (not raid ofc).

[lanerios]

Doing an instance once a day for 2 weeks is grinding now? LOL..

/sigh

OMG I didn't get my loot after 2 weeks, then someone ninja'd it fix pl0x!

Welcome to MMO's. Asshats are everywhere, and more and more in this game because Blizzard does nothing at all about ninjas /sigh

[DaruneAlbane]

First one is hard to get for me since I have ZERO PvP gear and I don't like PvP at all I'm still like Neutral with Hellscream's Reach while exalted with most others, second requires me to spend 8k+ on a mediocre item while there are free items that are close in stats.

they are dailies that require NO PvP at all they just like any other normal dailie

[Deleted]

He wasn't master looter he won on the NEED-roll, I wasn't in raid so what is your point? If he was master looter I'd be a total numbskull I guess?

Damn it guys, I know he wasn't master looter, I know you wasn't in a raid, what I'm trying to say is that in my first post I'd assumed you were...

[MrHappy]

hey i got that in my 1st heroic

[Abandon]

Perhaps you didn't read what I put:

*sigh*

Since you clearly never bothered reading the very clear explanations of my point and are still saying this over and over again I'll quote myself again


My point still stands, and my point is this:
If you are in a raid and the master loot rules are clearly defined at which point the master looter decides to steal a trinket you have the right to open a ticket and report the issue to a GM at which point the item will be given to you and the offender will be banned for breaching the code of conduct.

What you are describing here is a Loot Scam, not Ninja Looting.

I am aware you assumed they were in a raid. You said that was the only mistake you made.

You also said that players in a raid could be punished for ninja looting, which was your second mistake.

I corrected your mistake, but you keep insisting that Ninja Looting can be punished, even though it never, ever is. Loot scamming is punished.

To clarify:

Only thing I've been wrong about this thread is assuming the OP was raiding.

Ninjaing is against the ToS

If ninjaing is against the ToS (which I gave evidence of) and GM's have the power to strip to people of items (which I gave evidence of) then how are you corrrect?

Ninjaing isn't against the ToS which was where people are getting you being wrong more than once from.

[Deleted]

Ninjaing isn't against the ToS which was where people are getting you being wrong more than once from.

In which case we clearly have different definitions of scamming and ninjaing.
Ninjaing:
Stealing something from a raid while being master looter.
Scamming:
Taking someone's materials for a craft and not crafting the item, or keeping procs despite an agreement that the procs belong to the mats owner.

I guess this is one downside of a multi-continental forum where different regions have different definitions of terms.

Edit: This is getting massively offtopic.

[Abandon]

In which case we clearly have different definitions of scamming and ninjaing.

Actually, you have very different definituions of scamming and ninjaing compared to Blizzard.

Ninjaing:
Stealing something from a raid while being master looter.
Scamming:
Taking someone's materials for a craft and not crafting the item, or keeping procs despite an agreement that the procs belong to the mats owner.

I guess this is one downside of a multi-continental forum where different regions have different definitions of terms.

You honestly didn't even glance at the article I kept linking, did you? It gives you the exact definition of Ninja Looting and the exact definition of Loot Scamming. They need exact definitions because they can NEVER HELP with Ninja Looting, but they can help with Loot Scams.

Blizzards opinion

Scamming:

While some looting disputes may be a social faux pas and can tarnish a player's reputation, they are not a violation of any in-game rule. Scams, however, are a violation, and may occasionally accompany a looting dispute.

Ninja Looting:

The World of Warcraft looting system was specifically designed so this sort of item theft cannot occur. In order for a player to loot an item, he or she must contribute to the corresponding kill or be a part of the group responsible for it. Players who do not meet these requirements will be ineligible for any loot that drops. As a result, players are only able to loot items they are entitled to own; they cannot "ninja" or steal loot directly from other players.

Seriously, read the article. Please.

[mrwingtipshoes]

Perhaps you didn't read what I put:



*sigh*

Since you clearly never bothered reading the very clear explanations of my point and are still saying this over and over again I'll quote myself again


My point still stands, and my point is this:
If you are in a raid and the master loot rules are clearly defined at which point the master looter decides to steal a trinket you have the right to open a ticket and report the issue to a GM at which point the item will be given to you and the offender will be banned for breaching the code of conduct.

Fail, You assumed something with pure and facts right there. THRONE OF TIDES and the item are listed. THRONE OF TIDES is not a raid.

The answer is deal with it, they did nothing wrong by blizzards rules, they did something wrong by your rules because you believe for some reason that if you rank you should have an iWIN button on tank gear.

---------- Post added 2011-01-08 at 08:05 PM ----------

In which case we clearly have different definitions of scamming and ninjaing.

Your opinion and "Definition" doesnt matter, only blizzards does. For that matter how do you have a differnt definition? Thats like me saying my definition of cheese is something that grows outside that you have to mow down weekly.

[Deleted]

Your opinion and "Definition" doesnt matter, only blizzards does. For that matter how do you have a differnt definition? Thats like me saying my definition of cheese is something that grows outside that you have to mow down weekly.

What I /define/ as "ninja looting" Blizzard /define/ as "loot scamming".
My definition of ninja looting = Blizzards definition of loot scamming.
What I call ninja looting Blizzard calls loot scamming.
What I call ninja looting (refered to by Blizzard as loot scamming) is against the rules.

Please help me explain this to you in a way you understand.

[eternalwhitemoon]

Alright, this topic has gotten entirely out of hand with the definition of ninja looting vs loot scamming. Could we try to steer this back on course?

OP, did you ever create that forum post? I'd like to read it.

[Deleted]

Alright, this topic has gotten entirely out of hand with the definition of ninja looting vs loot scamming. Could we try to steer this back on course?

OP, did you ever create that forum post? I'd like to read it.

Finally someone I agree with.

[Agallochh]

OP, you aren't entitled to any gear in a dungeon. Everyone put in the same time to clear that dungeon as you did and the druid that won it could be using it for his tank spec. Just because it's a tank item doesn't mean the tank has to get it, everyone put in the same effort as you.

[Abandon]

What I /define/ as "ninja looting" Blizzard /define/ as "loot scamming".
My definition of ninja looting = Blizzards definition of loot scamming.
What I call ninja looting Blizzard calls loot scamming.
What I call ninja looting (refered to by Blizzard as loot scamming) is against the rules.

Please help me explain this to you in a way you understand.

If you are intentionally calling things by the wrong name and are getting annoyed that other people don't understand you, perhaps you could try and actually use the correct terms instead of insisting other people use your completely wrong ones? That would help you explain yourself so that people can understand more clearly.

Of course it's far more likely that you were simply wrong and are now just attempting to confuse the issue by pretending you actually knew what you were talking about but that you like calling things by the wrong name for no reason, after the correct definitions are given to you over and over again.

On topic, as mentioned before, it's unfortunate when another player needs on an item that you have been grinding for for their offspec or even just to vendor, but because of the rules in the game, Blizzard can't really do anything for it. Any changes like making it impossible to roll for offspec gear would probably have a rather large negative effect on the number of Healers and Tanks in the queue, increasing the waiting time for everyone. A lot of better geared Tanks and Healers would join Heroic groups so they can get items for their offspec, but if you take away that option then you would force them to queue as DPS meaning everyone needs to wait even longer, and you would get a medeocre geared DPS as opposed to a well geared Healer or Tank.

[Lutharr the Dead n Damned]

I love all the jerks saying the OP is QQ etc. And u wonder why people dont wanna tank for u lot. Use the tiny pea brain for something other than guiding your face into the keyboard.

OP. It may not be against Blizzards rules, but its still a shit thing for them to do. For me you shouldnt be able to roll Need unless its the spec u rolled into the instance with. If I am tanking I ask before rolling need on a DPS item and visa versa. But then again I aint a loot hungry douche

[Chiphoof]

How about an alternate solution? If you're looking for the tank trinket I assume that you're queuing as a tank. There are a lot of DPS out there who'd take an instant queue into ANY heroic, even if it isn't a random; I'd wager you could find a healer easily enough as well. Post in Trade that you're looking for DPS and a healer for Heroic ToT, make your own group, set out loot rules in /p before you get started and make sure they all know that you're reserving the trinket if it drops. If they roll and win it's a reportable offense, since there were rules stated in a public channel.

Caution: This plan may have the unintended side effect of helping you meet new people on your server, and/or making new friends.

[Abandon]

How about an alternate solution? If you're looking for the tank trinket I assume that you're queuing as a tank. There are a lot of DPS out there who'd take an instant queue into ANY heroic, even if it isn't a random; I'd wager you could find a healer easily enough as well. Post in Trade that you're looking for DPS and a healer for Heroic ToT, make your own group, set out loot rules in /p before you get started and make sure they all know that you're reserving the trinket if it drops. If they roll and win it's a reportable offense, since there were rules stated in a public channel.

Caution: This plan may have the unintended side effect of helping you meet new people on your server, and/or making new friends.

If you are just making a group yourself you can turn on Master Looter, the only time it is forced on you is if you join using the Random Dungeon Finder, right?

This would be a very effective way to do it. Or if you want to make absolutely sure, just bring all clothies. Then you are the only person in the group who can possibly need on the trinket.