Question about Destro DPS

[joumasepoes]

ok first off destro is not good, its the best, only other spec to play is demo when aoe is needed (see maloriak/halfus). glyphs are immolate, conflag and imp.

STAT PRIORITIES!

int>hit(until capped at 17%)>crit>haste>mastery.

mastery is absolute shite with current gear. dodge mastery at all costs. for a destro lock to be hit capped is of utter importance due to the synergy of our spells ie: immolate makes incinerate and chaos bolt hit harder, conflag reduces cast time of incinerate and chaos bolt. we should not worry too much about haste lvls atm because its easy enough to get to 30% raid buffed (incl improved soulfire and dark intent).the next bracket for haste is 2900ish off the top of my head so rly we have a long way to go before haste will be a really good stat for us again.

ROTATION!

when engaging a boss i try to do it like this: hardcast sf while tank is running in (make sure its not too early, facepulling a dragon is not smart) now u cast bane of doom,immolate, corruption, conflag (note that i do not cast conflag right away. the server first has to "register" that immolate is active on the target, hence corruption first) cb incinerate filler. if u are in melee range (some raids do not like this but in certain situations u will find urself there) cast shadowflame. now most importantly u need to cast conflag and cb the moment they come off cd, also try to hardcast sf 1-2 secs before buff falls off. keep the insta cast sfs for after moving or switching targets. now also u should be using your demon soul (i knw its absolute shite for destro but it is a boost nontheless) on cd.


BANE OF HAVOC!

there is no reson not to use this. very very few fights are single target only. bane should be up on your off target at all times. i personally use it on all fights where there are adds or different bosses (halfus, the twins, council) esp the twins, they share a health pool so all the extra dmg u do is relevant. another good way to use this is to keep bane active on magmaw while dpsing adds. 15% of all that aoe dmg goes straight to magmaw. dance party!

on a single target fight ur top three spells should be : immolate (dot), conflagrate and incinerate.

STRATEGY!

MOVING IS A LOCKS WORST ENEMY! but we have to because we all knw that standing in fire is on par with being president and doing your secretary at the same time (the clintfail). so how do we avoid moving too much? portals! every damn single fight there is a sweet spot to stand where u can reach all bosses/adds. find it and use it. council is a good example. i place my portal so that im in range of both bosses. when fire guy jumps and shits all over u and knocks u back u just port back and keep going, in totfw on rohash u can get hit by wall and just port back, or move 30yds from ur port and when the wall comes just port through it. there are endless uses, use ur imagination ffs. in the event that u find urself running make that time count, life tap, fel flame, corruption, bane, conflag and shadoflame are all instant casts. if i see u running and not casting i will cut u so hard u will dosconnect.

so ya OP thats what ur homeboy needs to knw. on the other hand there is no reason to be doing anything less that 12kdps ans a lock. atm we are ranking third overall in dps. he is better off not wearing them terrible trinkets at all. he is not the best geared. thats like a dk wearing rogue leather.my guess is he purchased sorrowsong so he could do heroics.that crafted belt is terrible, the one that drops offa doggy in brc is better even though its a rare and not an epic. i did not really check his professions but jc is almost a must (trinkets and chimaeras eyes)

but yes send him to the elitist jerks links up top they are the ONLY reference he should be using. most of the shit u read on forums is hearsay.

if there are any spelling/grammar mistakes idc to knw and i do not care about ur opinion. that is all.

[andromalia]

ok first off destro is not good, its the best, only other spec to play is demo when aoe is needed (see maloriak/halfus). glyphs are immolate, conflag and imp.

STAT PRIORITIES!

int>hit(until capped at 17%)>crit>haste>mastery.

mastery is absolute shite with current gear. dodge mastery at all costs. for a destro lock to be hit capped is of utter importance due to the synergy of our spells ie: immolate makes incinerate and chaos bolt hit harder, conflag reduces cast time of incinerate and chaos bolt. we should not worry too much about haste lvls atm because its easy enough to get to 30% raid buffed (incl improved soulfire and dark intent).the next bracket for haste is 2900ish off the top of my head so rly we have a long way to go before haste will be a really good stat for us again.

ROTATION!

when engaging a boss i try to do it like this: hardcast sf while tank is running in (make sure its not too early, facepulling a dragon is not smart) now u cast bane of doom,immolate, corruption, conflag (note that i do not cast conflag right away. the server first has to "register" that immolate is active on the target, hence corruption first) cb incinerate filler. if u are in melee range (some raids do not like this but in certain situations u will find urself there) cast shadowflame. now most importantly u need to cast conflag and cb the moment they come off cd, also try to hardcast sf 1-2 secs before buff falls off. keep the insta cast sfs for after moving or switching targets. now also u should be using your demon soul (i knw its absolute shite for destro but it is a boost nontheless) on cd.


BANE OF HAVOC!

there is no reson not to use this. very very few fights are single target only. bane should be up on your off target at all times. i personally use it on all fights where there are adds or different bosses (halfus, the twins, council) esp the twins, they share a health pool so all the extra dmg u do is relevant. another good way to use this is to keep bane active on magmaw while dpsing adds. 15% of all that aoe dmg goes straight to magmaw. dance party!

on a single target fight ur top three spells should be : immolate (dot), conflagrate and incinerate.

STRATEGY!

MOVING IS A LOCKS WORST ENEMY! but we have to because we all knw that standing in fire is on par with being president and doing your secretary at the same time (the clintfail). so how do we avoid moving too much? portals! every damn single fight there is a sweet spot to stand where u can reach all bosses/adds. find it and use it. council is a good example. i place my portal so that im in range of both bosses. when fire guy jumps and shits all over u and knocks u back u just port back and keep going, in totfw on rohash u can get hit by wall and just port back, or move 30yds from ur port and when the wall comes just port through it. there are endless uses, use ur imagination ffs. in the event that u find urself running make that time count, life tap, fel flame, corruption, bane, conflag and shadoflame are all instant casts. if i see u running and not casting i will cut u so hard u will dosconnect.

so ya OP thats what ur homeboy needs to knw. on the other hand there is no reason to be doing anything less that 12kdps ans a lock. atm we are ranking third overall in dps. he is better off not wearing them terrible trinkets at all. he is not the best geared. thats like a dk wearing rogue leather.my guess is he purchased sorrowsong so he could do heroics.that crafted belt is terrible, the one that drops offa doggy in brc is better even though its a rare and not an epic. i did not really check his professions but jc is almost a must (trinkets and chimaeras eyes)

but yes send him to the elitist jerks links up top they are the ONLY reference he should be using. most of the shit u read on forums is hearsay.

if there are any spelling/grammar mistakes idc to knw and i do not care about ur opinion. that is all.

Not only does this post give me a headache, but most of the information is incorrect.

[joumasepoes]

plz explain y. your reply is just about as useless as an inflatable dartboard.

[sharkee]

immolate makes incinerate and chaos bolt hit harder

Does it?

hat crafted belt is terrible, the one that drops offa doggy in brc is better even though its a rare and not an epic.

How on earth is Dreamless belt a bad choice for going into raiding?

if i see u running and not casting i will cut u so hard u will dosconnect.

Oh you cute little wannabe gangster you!

but yes send him to the elitist jerks links up top they are the ONLY reference he should be using. most of the shit u read on forums is hearsay.

if there are any spelling/grammar mistakes idc to knw and i do not care about ur opinion. that is all.

That's hilarous.

[Deleted]

Does it?

Fire and Brimstone talent. :yes:

Also, his post was awesome. Everyone should follow it.

[mordred69]

Also, his post was awesome. Everyone should follow it.

Not really...

If i had the time id point out alot of things but alas i dont...

[kai zayin]

I'm curious as to why nobody asked the OP about his raid comp. While I can tell the the warlock in his group could improve by his damage breakdown, he may also be missing a buff or debuff. If your group is missing the 5% crit debuff then your warlock is obligated to work Shadowbolt into his rotation in order to not only increase his dps but your entire group's dps as well. I do hope he is using Curse of Elements if someone else in your group isn't providing and equivalent debuff.

[joumasepoes]

Does it?

see talent: fire and brimstone

How on earth is Dreamless belt a bad choice for going into raiding?

beauty's silken ribbon from blackrock caverns has a higher dps rating by a full 50dps (disregarding gem socket and bonus and assuming you are indeed hit capped) a purple is not always a definate upgrade.

Oh you cute little wannabe gangster you!

this is why we cant have nice things. i was the only one to pull my finger outta my arse to try and help this person and all you can do is nitpick without any justification. your parents must be proud.

That's hilarous.

ill be here all week.

---------- Post added 2011-01-10 at 02:26 AM ----------

Not really...

If i had the time id point out alot of things but alas i dont...

I also would like to improve and i believe that there is always room for it. what i posted is my recipe for being in the top three if not first on the meters. im open for any suggestions and/or discussions about my post but if u have nothing constructive to say rather go put on ur emo music and cry because nobody understands u.

[bloodwine77]

I see a lot of people saying that his haste is too low.

From everything I've read, Destro stat priority is:

Int > Hit > Crit > Haste > Mastery

Depending on the gear level, it could be:

Int > Hit > Crit = Haste > Mastery

Haste is not more important than Crit, except if you are very close to reaching a haste threshold.

Haste stacking is no longer thing to do as it was in WotLK.

[drinoff]

Not the best warlock here... but still , i have m own opinion about the prio of stats.

Hit(until 17% , after that uselsess) > Int > Haste = Mastery > Crit

Sometimes even haste >Int , dont know why.. just everything i try in raids points me that casting your filler faster is beter than 50-60 moar spell power. Dont get me wrong i said sometimes.
With Gear comming , ofc Intelect will take his place as biggest prio , but right now myself i am trying to stack more haste as possible.

Why haste >crit

lemme explain (and yes that is my opinion) , With haste you reduce your casting time , and not only... see the other threads about extra ticks of your dots.



Haste - 100% decreases casting time by X secs
Crit - X% chance to criticaly hit (big number than usual) , but dont forget you might not crit...

So crit never will be better than haste for Destruction warlock , unless certain numbers ,

For example i can say one certain precentage .. at 100% crit: Crit is >>>>> Haste , but that never will happen so..


For your lock:

Seriously ..more haste... less crit , Dont forget Bane of doom , dunno his prio list but mine is like: Conflag(assuming Immo is there)>chaos Bolt>inchin>bane of doom=corr

What i do on fights:
CoE(doesnt matter if there is a relevnt buff or not) , BoD , Soul fire(instant or not depends),Corr , Immo , CB , Conflag , Filler(inchin)
than follow my prio list.

If i have to move (which is obvious nowdays) i try to use this fell flame ability , renew corr if it is wearing off , BoD as well Life tap , things that is instant cast is always helpfull while moving , so you can concentrate on casted spells while not moving.


I easily make tons of demage , and i am usually right after Hunters on raids.

Didnt check his spec , but i have a feeling that something is wrong there as well.

Anyway GL.

Before you starting to critisize meh , dot forget that this is my opinion , and not elitejerks or somebody others one..

and yes sorry for the mistakes in grammar and stuff

[Typhus]

Not the best warlock here... but still , i have m own opinion about the prio of stats.

Hit(until 17% , after that uselsess) > Int > Haste = Mastery > Crit

Sometimes even haste >Int , dont know why.. just everything i try in raids points me that casting your filler faster is beter than 50-60 moar spell power. Dont get me wrong i said sometimes.
With Gear comming , ofc Intelect will take his place as biggest prio , but right now myself i am trying to stack more haste as possible.

Why haste >crit

lemme explain (and yes that is my opinion) , With haste you reduce your casting time , and not only... see the other threads about extra ticks of your dots.



Haste - 100% decreases casting time by X secs
Crit - X% chance to criticaly hit (big number than usual) , but dont forget you might not crit...

So crit never will be better than haste for Destruction warlock , unless certain numbers ,

For example i can say one certain precentage .. at 100% crit: Crit is >>>>> Haste , but that never will happen so..


For your lock:

Seriously ..more haste... less crit , Dont forget Bane of doom , dunno his prio list but mine is like: Conflag(assuming Immo is there)>chaos Bolt>inchin>bane of doom=corr

What i do on fights:
CoE(doesnt matter if there is a relevnt buff or not) , BoD , Soul fire(instant or not depends),Corr , Immo , CB , Conflag , Filler(inchin)
than follow my prio list.

If i have to move (which is obvious nowdays) i try to use this fell flame ability , renew corr if it is wearing off , BoD as well Life tap , things that is instant cast is always helpfull while moving , so you can concentrate on casted spells while not moving.


I easily make tons of demage , and i am usually right after Hunters on raids.

Didnt check his spec , but i have a feeling that something is wrong there as well.

Anyway GL.

Before you starting to critisize meh , dot forget that this is my opinion , and not elitejerks or somebody others one..

and yes sorry for the mistakes in grammar and stuff

Ok lots of people have done hard math as to why crit is better than haste for destro, your pondering is just that.
Destro start rotaion is something like SF or COE (depends on pull method)>Bane>Immo>Corr>Conflag>CB>2xIncin, then incin while keeping up buffs/dots and conflag and CB whenever off cd.

[Viceversa]

funny thread

[Belaide]

His gear is still quite low. To be honest he needs to be in heroics rather than raids. Destruction is doing very good dps now, but the rotation is more complex than it used to be. Add in that he's learning the fights and probably messing up his rotation because of the learning and his dps is about right for his gear.

[joumasepoes]

drinoff i understand ur reasoning, but, haste atm is a low for the reason that we cannot achieve the next bracket to give our immolate an extra tick, which in turn makes ur conflag hit harder too. when u start talkin about t11 (heroic) its of even lower priority (statweight of 0.7 compared to 1.17 for crit). we allready get 15% hast from imp sf, 3% from dark intent and also 5% from sp buff. to achieve next bracket u need to have 50% haste. point is we kinda have enough haste atm. u can always run a sim and fiddle with the values but i can guarantee u that crit will always come out on top.

[Fenrir_Rendar]

Silly question is he hit capped?

[Deleted]

Nobody else picking up that his second highest damage is from Soul Fire?

He should be using soul fire ONLY to refresh the Improved Soul Fire buff, which increases his haste by 15% and should be up all the time. He will also get the occasional instant proc from his imp, but that only occurs around every 35 seconds on average. That shows a core misunderstanding of the spec.

Basically his damage % per spell is all wrong...he needs to read a good article on the subject and actually practice it. He should be able to hit 11K without a problem in his gear.Elitist jerks will show him the priority list, but if he is stuck in 'wrath mode' where he wants to follow a fixed rotation then he needs to snap out of it - destruction is now very much a spell priority based spec.

As others have said he also has his stat priorities very wrong, but so do some of the people posting here who have probably never used SimulationCraft in their lives.

The definitive and irrefutable stat priority which I have spent hours testing is:

INT > HIT > HASTE > CRIT >>> MASTERY

EDIT: I have to say that those who are claiming that mastery is anything other than the lowest stat have simply not understood the mathematics. You need SO MUCH mastery per point that it is by far the worst stat for us at the moment. You should always reforge out of mastery into something higher up the priority list.

Your warlock has gone too far into crit. Haste directly affects the number of dot ticks, which in turn affects the damage conflagrate does via immolate damage. Additionally haste is a direct multiplicative increase to dps, which is why its so important that he understands the improved soul fire buff.

[Jmickey]

Honestly, the best thing you or this lock could do is import his armory into SimulationCraft and see what pops up. Haste and Crit seem to yoyo a fair bit for Destro at lower gear levels and even going into the higher gear levels, but neither is way ahead of the other, and which is better is totally dependent on individual setup.

Warlock Simcraft Thread: elitistjerks.com/f80/t110222-simulationcraft_warlocks_cataclysm_edition/

Download from here: code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/downloads/list

You can also point him towards the Destro link in my Sig. Hopefully the information there can be helpful.

Your warlock has gone too far into crit. Haste directly affects the number of dot ticks, which in turn affects the damage conflagrate does. Additionally haste is a direct multiplicative increase to dps, which is why its so important that he understands the improved soul fire buff.

Only at certain thresholds. Fully raid buffed the damage Immolate or Corruption does at 1200 haste and 1400 haste is no different. Having said that, if the warlock in question is missing the 5% haste buff in a raid, then he does not have anywhere near enough haste.

[Jenerena]

Honestly, the best thing you or this lock could do is import his armory into SimulationCraft and see what pops up. Haste and Crit seem to yoyo a fair bit for Destro at lower gear levels and even going into the higher gear levels, but neither is way ahead of the other, and which is better is totally dependent on individual setup.

Warlock Simcraft Thread: elitistjerks.com/f80/t110222-simulationcraft_warlocks_cataclysm_edition/

This. My lock values haste higher than crit in my destro spec, by a small amount.

It will be different depending on your gear level, especially as destruction.

[Modibybob]

The point at which haste becomes valued over crit is when you get only enough so that immolate has an extra tick. This will not only make immolate more powerful, but also conflag...you silly, silly people. Until that point, Int > Crit > Haste > Mas

[Deleted]

Only at certain thresholds. Fully raid buffed the damage Immolate or Corruption does at 1200 haste and 1400 haste is no different. Having said that, if the warlock in question is missing the 5% haste buff in a raid, then he does not have anywhere near enough haste.

Yes of course, I meant that as a passing point. Regardless of this the stat priority remains the same.

Nice to see you here Jmickey.

As Jenerena has done you should do your own sim for your gear to see for yourself. It really isn't all that difficult. There is a thread that may help you flying around, I believe it is titled Andromalia's Howto SimulationCraft Thread.