Is American culture too violent?

[Cel]

I don't see how this is the same thing..... I'm not supporting drunk drivers, but hey, let's get knifes and forks to eat with out of the way while we're at it. I have to admit, I'm not american, but I have been there and there are actual gunshops with signs that say "When you are 8 or younger, you must have parents with you"....

No, you do see! You even sorta showed an application of my reasoning to your reply! So we are almost there. Lets stick with your knives and forks statement! Some people can't even handle this. As sad as it is. Knives and forks are simply to dangerous... So lets outlaw them all!
You see how absurd this sounds? This is the point I was trying to make with the car/driving analogy. Where do you draw the line? How can anyone on this planet, make the correct decision on how many rights a person is able to have?

Fact of the matter is that there are plenty of dangerous things out there, just as much if not more so dangerous then guns (Guns just happen to be very direct and quick). There really isn't a good answer simply because everyone disagrees, but the fact of the matter... is the most logical solution isn't to take something away from a person and hope they wont have access to it (Marijuana in the USA is a perfect example of why this method doesn't work).

The real solution is to not make it illegal. But have it controlled... and most of all, the most important part, is to educate your country on the matter. Its simple fact that with more knowledge about a subject, the better decisions you, and everyone else in this world will make regarding it.

Understand what I mean now?

[Catta]

The blue whale is not on top of the food chain. It is merely very large. It still eats some of the smallest animals.

No, American LAW provided him with a gun. The same way it provides millions of people who DONT kill people with guns.

And what good did said guns to those who was his target?

[Catta]

I wouldn't say we don't understand the impact. I realize that people are shot almost daily. But thats the price we pay for individual freedom. Its about giving the people power. Sure, we get to vote, but the right to vote is only about words. The right to vote can be taken away, with just words. The right to have a gun gives you a backup plan. When your other rights are being trampled, and words are no longer enough, we can fall back on our weapons. Guns protect our freedoms, because if we have nothing to back them up, they are no longer rights. They are just priveleges. Which can easily be taken away.

So the simplest answer is that if you don't like the way we live, don't come here. I understand you don't live here, so you are succeeding in that.

If you dont trust your politicians... why vote for them?
If you are the minority... then its democracy? Will you go against democracy?

[Catta]

Okay then, what if he was even slightly more methodical and built a bomb? You can easily make an explosive device with off the shelf materials that he could have killed many more people with - it happens in Palestine almost on a monthly basis. Obviously Israel needs tighter gun control laws.

A person with no experience in making bombs will prolly blow himself up first...

saying what else he could have done, is not an excuse for making it easy for him...

[Sunseeker]

And what good did said guns to those who was his target?

Nothing, because all the sane, rational people who owned them knew better than to pull them out and use them.

[Zakgra]

No, you do see! You even sorta showed an application of my reasoning to your reply! So we are almost there. Lets stick with your knives and forks statement! Some people can't even handle this. As sad as it is. Knives and forks are simply to dangerous... So lets outlaw them all!
You see how absurd this sounds? This is the point I was trying to make with the car/driving analogy. Where do you draw the line? How can anyone on this planet, make the correct decision on how many rights a person is able to have?

Fact of the matter is that there are plenty of dangerous things out there, just as much if not more so dangerous then guns (Guns just happen to be very direct and quick). There really isn't a good answer simply because everyone disagrees, but the fact of the matter... is the most logical solution isn't to take something away from a person and hope they wont have access to it (Marijuana in the USA is a perfect example of why this method doesn't work).

The real solution is to not make it illegal. But have it controlled... and most of all, the most important part, is to educate your country on the matter. Its simple fact that with more knowledge about a subject, the better decisions you, and everyone else in this world will make regarding it.

Understand what I mean now?

Cel, the difference is that cars, forks and knives are designed for a different purpose than killing. Guns on the other hand has no other use than killing people. Thats why guns should be illegal. There is your line.

[Cel]

If they wouldn't sell guns in the first place there wouldn't be much to defend yourself from.

If you think guns are the only way people are attacked, you are greatly mistaken. If you want to take away anything and everything a person can attack you with, good luck. You'll be eating with your hands, walking to work, writing with a crayon. Oh wait, you can choke a person with a crayon if you have power over them....

See where this is going?

[Catta]

No, you do see! You even sorta showed an application of my reasoning to your reply! So we are almost there. Lets stick with your knives and forks statement! Some people can't even handle this. As sad as it is. Knives and forks are simply to dangerous... So lets outlaw them all!
You see how absurd this sounds? This is the point I was trying to make with the car/driving analogy. Where do you draw the line? How can anyone on this planet, make the correct decision on how many rights a person is able to have?

Fact of the matter is that there are plenty of dangerous things out there, just as much if not more so dangerous then guns (Guns just happen to be very direct and quick). There really isn't a good answer simply because everyone disagrees, but the fact of the matter... is the most logical solution isn't to take something away from a person and hope they wont have access to it (Marijuana in the USA is a perfect example of why this method doesn't work).

The real solution is to not make it illegal. But have it controlled... and most of all, the most important part, is to educate your country on the matter. Its simple fact that with more knowledge about a subject, the better decisions you, and everyone else in this world will make regarding it.

Understand what I mean now?

As i said earlier

A knife is a tool, a gun is a weapon

---------- Post added 2011-01-12 at 11:42 PM ----------

Nothing, because all the sane, rational people who owned them knew better than to pull them out and use them.

So your saying that all sane people wont use their guns? So its only the insane wh will? Comforting

[Malagan]

If you think guns are the only way people are attacked, you are greatly mistaken. If you want to take away anything and everything a person can attack you with, good luck. You'll be eating with your hands, walking to work, writing with a crayon. Oh wait, you can choke a person with a crayon if you have power over them....

See where this is going?

A gun is designed to kill, the others arent. Most people are for example not against flare guns.
Yes, these can kill, but they were designed for an entirely different purpose.

[Clouce]

Id also say its important to identify the type of violence rather than the amount.

[xylophone]

This whole argument of freedoms in the U.S. and the laws in other more developed country all comes down to two different mindsets which both have ups and downs related to them.

The U.S. ideal is that of live and let live as long as you aren't hurting someone else, The European mindset is about people helping others out.
One is vulnerable to the greedy people of the world, the other is susceptible to lazy people. No government/culture is perfect. We all have dark parts of our histories, we all have tough decisions that had to be made. Every nation has had wars, which are terrible parts of human history that are more often than not necessary to defend people's freedoms and rights to live. I don't think America is culturally superior to Europe, neither do i think the opposite is true. It all comes down to our values and the way we choose to live.

When it comes to violence it comes down to these mindsets as well. An American believes in his property and his right to defend it from lazy/crazy/greedy people that want to take it from them. Whether you choose that or to shrug it off as a lesser evil to ignore for the idea of avoiding any kind of violence is your prerogitive. I guess I'm just trying to say that your values are your own, while here in America we have different beliefs, so stop trying to prove your superior or "more civilized" culture because I have a different attitude toward how justice is to be administered.

[xenaxena]

The basic premise of this thread is flawed as there is almost no evidence that this shooter was influenced by current political rhetoric. His obsession with this congresswoman dates back to at least 2007 when he attended another one of her rallies, asked a question about "words", and was upset with her response. This predates Sarah Palin's rise in the media and her now-famous "target map". People at college were afraid of this guy to the point where armed guards were posted near the classroom (even without him having a "gun"). It's clear what we have is a very disturbed person with a history of mental illness who time and time again was missed by the system. To dismiss this as a product of the political culture misses the essential element that it was a living breathing human being that committed this crime. Stop trying to blame the acts of this individual on politics until some evidence is brought forth that he was motivated by it. The guy has been described by acquaintances as a "left-wing pot smoker", "an atheist", and someone who "doesn't listen to talk radio" and "doesn't watch the news". We don't know whether he was a republican or a demoncrat. It's been reported he didn't even vote in the last election.

Furthermore, to think that we even have the capability to outlaw firearms is ludicrous. We've tried outlawing marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth amphetamines, and even at one point alcohol. How well has that worked out for us? Aside from the fact that we'd never clean up the existing gun inventory, we'd merely create yet another problem of goods smuggled from Mexico. Gun laws have little effect, because it's already illegal to kill or harm someone with a gun. It's a crime called "murder". The criminal really doesn't care if in the course of committing murder he may be committing a lesser firearms infraction.

Plenty of alternative ways exist to kill someone. He could have simply driven a vehicle at high speed into the crowd. Ted Kaczynski sent bombs in the mail, Timothy McVeigh used a fertilizer bomb, OJ simpson used a knife. This guy was certainly capable of inflicting harm with or without a handgun.

[xylophone]

Who are u talking to?
if me.... plz tell me where i said that we are superior? lol

Its an attitude that i keep sensing that somehow Americans are barbarians or something because we choose to defend ourselves.

[Clouce]

All we ask is why the fck guns are so important in ur country.
All i hear is crap like Guns dont kill ppl or a knife is the same..
Seriues what a fcked up mindset. i'm leaving this thread cause i cant
get no answer to my questions rather then bullsht.
i really would have know the truth and not childish excuses.
Btw 5 year olds with ak's on gunpracitce? if u agree with that.......

Btw: i'm not trying to offend anyone with this post.

Because an invading country would think harder about invading when they realize the civilians are also well armed. It was the point of the amendment in the first place.

Also, you can say fuck, this isn't the blizz forums.

[xylophone]

All we ask is why the fck guns are so important in ur country.
All i hear is crap like Guns dont kill ppl or a knife is the same..
Seriues what a fcked up mindset. i'm leaving this thread cause i cant
get no answer to my questions rather then bullsht.
i really would have know the truth and not childish excuses.
Btw 5 year olds with ak's on gunpracitce? if u agree with that.......

Btw: i'm not trying to offend anyone with this post.

You treat guns like they are some evil object, its an inanimate object. No one has given you any childish excuses, the reason we choose to possess firearms is for self defense, hunting, or for recreational uses, if anyone has the idea to use it for something different it has to do with their mindset, meaning they are most likely some kind of lunatic, criminal, or mentally unstable person. And anyone with that attitude isn't going to be stopped from using a gun, crossbow, knife, baseball bat or even explosives to do what they plan.

Regarding the 5 year old, i would agree that that is a little young, but it is necessary to teach children what a gun is and/or what it can do. I recieved my first gun when i was 9 or 10 but i was supervised and taught how dangerous they can be in the hands of an ignorant or unstable person.

[Sunseeker]

Regarding the 5 year old, i would agree that that is a little young, but it is necessary to teach children what a gun is and/or what it can do. I recieved my first gun when i was 9 or 10 but i was supervised and taught how dangerous they can be in the hands of an ignorant or unstable person.

Better to teach children young how to respect something than never tell them about it and expect them to never wonder about it.

[Kalyyn]

Because an invading country would think harder about invading when they realize the civilians are also well armed. It was the point of the amendment in the first place.

Also, you can say fuck, this isn't the blizz forums.

Excellent point. Sure, theres nobody on earth powerful enough to do such a thing, but what if there was? And who says there never will be?

[Kalyyn]

Better to teach children young how to respect something than never tell them about it and expect them to never wonder about it.

Also a fantastic point!

[Phenetix]

Can we all agree on "Blame the media?"

Keep it short & sweet.

[GennGreymane]

Because an invading country would think harder about invading when they realize the civilians are also well armed. It was the point of the amendment in the first place.

Also, you can say fuck, this isn't the blizz forums.

a simular result would be a country with mandatory military service. VIVA LA ISRAEL