Rogues outhealing ShadowDots.

[Deleted]

Its come to my knowledge that Rogues outheal the dots we have.. Hows that balanced? I dont play shadow reguraly(spelling?). I'm normaly a disc player, but is this how its suppose to be? Rogues selfhealing is outhealing 2 of the dots we have, and when the third comes along their hp starts to drop.

Hows every other shadowpriest doing out there? I've got 9.13% haste and 9.76% Crit, i dont think that is low either :P

[zito]

You should of seen it before the nerf o.o

But if you are disc, recuperate should outheal your dots if the rogue is smart enough to keep it up. It shouldn't be out healing all 3 shadow dots at 85 unless the rogue has tons of resilience and you have crappy gear.

[xlord]

dont know how low your selfheal is but i as a rogue only get 2% of my max hp every 3 sec (can be 4 or 6% if i take the talents for it) and its a dps if i do so.

[Deleted]

Im usualy play disc yes, but since disc/mage isnt as good as shadow/mage, i've gone shadow for the moment.

Since most rogues play Envenom for the SICK burst they have, they also have imp-recup, and a 20% increased healing taken. A friend who plays rogue said; With that 20% and imp-recup, it healed for 5-6k. If I'm lucky my dots crit 3k?!

[Deleted]

Oh no, you need to keep casting to do damage. skyfalling.jpg
Is there any reasonable argument why dot attacks should be as powerful as direct attacks in cataclysm pvp?

[Deleted]

Afflock.


Anyway, theres the shadowy apparition aswell ontop of that, and they simply outheal with one spell.

[Malania]

Oh no, you need to keep casting to do damage. skyfalling.jpg
Is there any reasonable argument why dot attacks should be as powerful as direct attacks in cataclysm pvp?

Well because he can continue dps'ing while he heals where as damage output from rogues is pretty high and we have to keep healing to stay ahead of his damage and hope he doesn't interupt the healing.

[G l o w y r m]

It's cliche, but the game isn't balanced around Priest vs Rogue, or 1v1, etc.

If this happened in arena, the Rogue would be losing a lot of DPS, especially depending on what class your partner was.

Is it maybe a little bit much? Maybe, but you should have someone else beating on him / peeling him off of you and he's not even doing any finishers just to keep your dots from hurting so much. You even said the 3rd DoT starts to hurt him, so 3 DoTs plus Apparition is dropping him already before your partner is even in the equation. Also, your DoTs are not supposed to kill things along, you have Mind Blast and Mind Flay and SW.

[quasarquantum]

dont know how low your selfheal is but i as a rogue only get 2% of my max hp every 3 sec (can be 4 or 6% if i take the talents for it) and its a dps if i do so.

Subtlety talent does not provide a better selfheal, its still 2or 4 %

[Evolixe]

You should of seen it before the nerf o.o

But if you are disc, recuperate should outheal your dots if the rogue is smart enough to keep it up. It shouldn't be out healing all 3 shadow dots at 85 unless the rogue has tons of resilience and you have crappy gear.

6% every 3 secs increased by subs mastery was fun while it lasted

Anyway, a priest doesn't beat a rogue as of now, not of equal skill.

I accually managed to duel and beat some shadowpriests using my t10 pve gear. Yep, SP is weak against rogues atm.

[Danicus]

With that 20% and imp-recup, it healed for 5-6k. If I'm lucky my dots crit 3k?!

For Recuperate to heal 5-6k, the rogue has to have 125-150k health; so you're slightly exaggerating a bit here (more so assuming you've used Mind Blast or any other MS variation type spell). However, 4-4.5k is very common. But the fact that recuperate comes at the cost of pure DPS (i.e. 3-5 combo points) while your dots HEAL you while they DPS them, and can be cast at range; add in your shields, etc. makes me lose any sympathy for ANY caster in PvP these days.

[xBoRISx]

Since you said having issues with assination rogues, I play one. All you have to do is force them to blow their cloak of shadow even their smoke put presure on the rogue force his Def CDs. Once that happens have the mage frost him all day and kite him. Cloak is 1 min CD for assination and vanish on 2min CD. I also have a SP lvl 83 at the moment, it's dots ticks for 2-3k none crit. You have 3 dots to apply to him and mind flay, and also mind spike is the new addition to spell book too.

[Cabadam]

For Recuperate to heal 5-6k, the rogue has to have 125-150k health; so you're slightly exaggerating a bit here

Is he? Maybe I missed a part of the ability, but Recup is 2% right? Imp Recup brings it to 4%?

Let's say the rogue has a smaller health pool, say 105k HP?
105000 * 0.04 = 4200

Add in the extra 20% from quickening:
4200 * 1.2 = 5040 HP per tick

Obviously, that's before any healing debuffs.

[Skarrd]

Recup lasts 24-30 seconds. It's not much of a trade off in pvp. You can blanket yourself with it almost all the time and not lose a good damage opportunity that the healing wont be better than. I find it a little ridiculous for rogue-resets once arenas get down to 1v1 tbh. Rogue reset power is obviously strong against most classes and they can just sit back and regen ridiculous amounts of hp, especially if they have recup up and the CP's for another 30% life ontop of it. I r not fan.

[Deleted]

It's cliche, but the game isn't balanced around Priest vs Rogue, or 1v1, etc.

If this happened in arena, the Rogue would be losing a lot of DPS, especially depending on what class your partner was.

Is it maybe a little bit much? Maybe, but you should have someone else beating on him / peeling him off of you and he's not even doing any finishers just to keep your dots from hurting so much. You even said the 3rd DoT starts to hurt him, so 3 DoTs plus Apparition is dropping him already before your partner is even in the equation. Also, your DoTs are not supposed to kill things along, you have Mind Blast and Mind Flay and SW.

When i get the third dot up, Vamparic touch, thats when the health starts to drop A LITTLE. As it is now you cant go channeling spells before you have to heal yourself and thats where the rogue wants you, outside shadowform+15% dmg, and while that is happening his recuperate heals him close to full HP.

This is not just a matter of 1v1. In arena they can just reset without the healer having to heal more then the "Heal" ability all healing classes has(Not that theres many that uses it).

[Auro]

Recoup is op considering the way healing works currently, and especially considering how much they nerffed other healing effects like spriests heals from damage.

Warriors are in teh same boat as rogues, and paladins are in teh same boat as spriests. Shamans and druids have it even worse since now their heals cost a truckload (though shaman can cast on their clearcasting procs and not do too terribly bad, however the old throughput isnt there and cant even begin to compete with a rogue)

[TwistedCross]

Oh no, you need to keep casting to do damage. skyfalling.jpg
Is there any reasonable argument why dot attacks should be as powerful as direct attacks in cataclysm pvp?

Yeah, because the damage output of this class is based around those DoTs doing damage.

How else are they going to kill you? Mindblasting for 6k and Mindflaying for 9k full channel? I'll remember that next time some class Crits me for 40k.

[Deleted]

How else are they going to kill you? Mindblasting for 6k and Mindflaying for 9k full channel?

Yes, except you intentionally underrated these numbers, it's what you're supposed to do. If dots were doing full damage they'd have to fully remove any dispel protections and make sure that comps without dispel can still counter dots. As you can realise you'd get long window where you do damage, but don't do anything for it - also without any real multitarget penalty.

having to heal more then the "Heal" ability all healing classes has

Those classes have nothing else than those selfheals, they cannot target anyone except for themselfs, so that it makes sense it has some advantage over heal abilities. They couldve be penalized a little more for doing it (you have to cast your heals), however amount of what they heal is fine.
Lets say if there was cooldown on recuperate, rogues would always be forced to use max combo points for keeping it. That'd be some more tradeoff for doing it.
EDIT: lets also not forget that those abilities are usualy quite limited, like WoG for Paladins (they however have heal abilities, which are limited too though ) and being proc for Warriors.

But anyway, what you are experiencing is that their "free" heal counters your "free" damage. Really nothing horribly gamebreaking.

[Skarrd]

But anyway, what you are experiencing is that their "free" heal counters your "free" damage. Really nothing horribly gamebreaking.

I tend to agree with you here, but my real problem with recup is it outlcasses all other forms of babyheals that other classes have. I think the idea of giving it a cooldown is pretty good tbh. Even making it heal slightly more and giving it a long cooldown isn't a bad idea. I think that's the main issue with it: it can be used in a way that never allows it to fall off. Evocation, pet sac, enraged regen, etc all have cooldowns and still dont do significantly more than a 5cp recup does. All of those spells have rather long cooldowns as well, not just short ones. I'm more okay with a spriest/ret/enh/ele having the ability to heal themselves effectively than a warrior/rogue/mage. Even aff lock healing is a bit over the top imo, but I'll be happy to see mana drain gone at least.

[Deleted]

Im usualy play disc yes, but since disc/mage isnt as good as shadow/mage, i've gone shadow for the moment.

Since most rogues play Envenom for the SICK burst they have, they also have imp-recup, and a 20% increased healing taken. A friend who plays rogue said; With that 20% and imp-recup, it healed for 5-6k. If I'm lucky my dots crit 3k?!

Sick burst? Mutilate rogues have crap mobility, we get our damage from poisons and auto attacks, we get 1 burst with our cold blood envenom, however not alot of mobility is required vs disc priests so I can see your problem.