What the SV nerfs actually mean

[Xemik]

O_o and one more thing What da fuck is this blizz obsession with all 3 dps trees being equal ?

Because not all players want to be forced into 1 spec that they may not like in order to raid?

[hrafnkel]

Better that than to have all three be equally bad. Besides, SV is rarely on top for any extended length of time; it deserves its turn. BM had BC, MM had the latter half of Wrath.

[Xemik]

You make a good point there.
But I would def love for all 3 specs to be pretty even and in good shape.

[Judai]

we don't care about AoE, but we removed volley because hunter's firing arrows isn't RP

we don't care about AoE, but we nerf Serpent spread because....we nerfed it, shut up!

Best. Post. Ever.

[Dracodraco]

femaledwarf results for my character. I have custom (more realistic) settings, so thats why your femaledwarf profile may be much higher than mine. The stat values should be considered totaly hypothetical, since there is probably a large margin of error. The values are averages of a +500 amount.

*SNIP*

also, looking at stat weights, it would appear that MM will pull far ahead as gear gets better.

Any chance of you sharing these much more realistic settings =p? So we can test it ourselves.
I wouldn't be surprised, but I would be dissapointed if MM pulls ahead. The MM priority seems so much simpler than Survivial, and survivial is already pretty tame - Surv actually needs focus management (lock'n'load procs, explo+BA coming off CD), where as MM is just chimerah shot and steady shooting in pairs of 2. An aimed shot every 30 seconds, I guess.

[Belial-sama]

This really feels like 3.0.8 all over again, except it's SV getting the axe this time.
I do agree no dps should be far ahead of others, but why can't they just buff other classes/specs instead of nerfing the ones in the lead?

[etubrutei]

how about we test it on the ptr first before you all go on a bitching qq fest this patch isnt even live yet and you guys are running scared like chickens with your head chopped off

[Deleted]

We didn't need a toning down. We lead SOME fights and we get stomped in others.

What's fucking ridiculous is they can nerf nerf nerf but they can't fix 4 year+ old bugs.

I'm just tired of the lazy nerfs that are placed on the wrong ability and no actual fixes to the damned class.

Survival is going to once again scale like complete shit with higher gear and be tossed by the wayside.

Not trying to be overly dramatic, but Blizzard has a habit of making absolutely stupid changes without listening to the community.

QFT. It's getting stupid ^_^

[Fojos]

This really feels like 3.0.8 all over again, except it's SV getting the axe this time.
I do agree no dps should be far ahead of others, but why can't they just buff other classes/specs instead of nerfing the ones in the lead?

Then they would have to buff the encounters as well, nerfing one spec is easier than buffing everyone else.

[Kidoeng7]

All i have to say is that it looks like the nerf bat will hit us hard but always to every bad thing that happens there is a good thing happening too so maybe we have to w8 for the changes to be tested in ptr than go live so we can test it by our self and maybe maybe the nerfs wont be as bad as we first thought!

[Sensei_Sin]

Didn't they say that haste will affect Steady Shot and Cobra Shot differently and would, in consequence, increase the desirability of haste?

This could mean that the DPS contribution of those two shots will increase and so, in order to keep balance, they had to reduce the DPS contribution of other shots.

[Deleted]

how about we test it on the ptr first before you all go on a bitching qq fest this patch isnt even live yet and you guys are running scared like chickens with your head chopped off

Its the way it has to be because of insane nerf to our AoE or else noone would ever think that these nerfs do something bad and unintended, like leaving hunters without AoE once again.

[OohLaLa]

femaledwarf results for my character. I have custom (more realistic) settings, so thats why your femaledwarf profile may be much higher than mine. The stat values should be considered totaly hypothetical, since there is probably a large margin of error. The values are averages of a +500 amount.

current: 18845.20 (sv in pvp)


bm: 16578.69 tier. 16477.81 pvp.

agi 2.26084
crit 0.87168
mast 0.48782
haste 0.72602


mm: 17475.72 tier. 17011.87 pvp.

agi 2.2444
crit 0.83776
mast 0.69894
haste 0.97046


sv: 17362.96. 17329.32 pvp.

agi: 2.38286
crit: 0.80406
mast: 0.58976
haste: 0.64384

also, looking at stat weights, it would appear that MM will pull far ahead as gear gets better.

Thanks for the info, Kripparian. *sigh* This makes me sad. A day after I decide to give SV a shot...*BOOM*

I guess this isn't too far off from LK...MM #! again??? And I see that it'll be more or less the same in that my guildies will still be bothering me that if I want to raid, drop BM. BMs will stink with their "useless pets" and bleh DPS.

[Viking]

AoE: because hitting 2k DPS for each target with a single unholy rune is fair, so they buffed disease damage by 30% to avoid anyone being better then a dk

anyway not that much difference raid-wide, and not that much even in HC

* Explosive Shot now deals [ 20.5% of Ranged AP + 340 ] damage, down from [ 27.3% of Ranged AP + 454 damage ]
this, instead, is just overkill

just watch DK patch notes, they're only 2-300 DPS below us and they got an overall buff, really, WTF?

You are barking up the wrong tree. Unholy isn't dominating aoe fights atm. It's howling blast that really rapes on aoe. Dk's lost their disease mastery in favor of the new shadow damage one so blizzard plugged the base value into a talent so diseases weren't complete shit damage wise. I try to avoid mastery on gear and yet my crappy dk alt has 56% bonus dmg to diseases. : / It's not a buff to unholy diseases.


The hunter nerfs are overkill though. The 5% agi nerf was enough imho. Quite a few other other classes have pretty much caught up to hunters on a lot of fights. Someone is gonna be first... so long as it isn't the same class on every fight,(and it isn't that way with hunters atm) then what does it matter? Hunters are a pure class after all... oh well.

[ilo]

Because not all players want to be forced into 1 spec that they may not like in order to raid?

so how about some real buffs to those 'lesser' specs instead of overnerfing the top one?

[Dracodraco]

You are barking up the wrong tree. Unholy isn't dominating aoe fights atm. It's howling blast that really rapes on aoe. Dk's lost their disease mastery in favor of the new shadow damage one so blizzard plugged the base value into a talent so diseases weren't complete shit damage wise. I try to avoid mastery on gear and yet my crappy dk alt has 56% bonus dmg to diseases. : / It's not a buff to unholy diseases.


The hunter nerfs are overkill though. The 5% agi nerf was enough imho. Quite a few other other classes have pretty much caught up to hunters on a lot of fights. Someone is gonna be first... so long as it isn't the same class on every fight,(and it isn't that way with hunters atm) then what does it matter? Hunters are a pure class after all... oh well.

Dont be so sure. Shadow dmg is part of blood fever, and death and decay - this means that AOE abilitys will still be very dominating for death knights through mastery. The fact stands that serpent spread only affecting 4 mobs makes it pretty much useless - if they would, lets say, use Noxious sting to bring us down on-par instead of wierd stuff like making our AOE horrible and lowering the dmg of our actual shots, it would be much easier to handle. You would still pick up Nox stings if it gave a 2%/5% increase to dmg done when serpent sting is applied to a target, but know what? You still lost 5% damage. And thats all over - 5% less singletarget, 5% less AOE. And now someones going to diss me with math and say thats not the exact figures, but you get the idea... Right? Currentelly Crit/Mastery outweights haste after 757 for surv hunters by a good margin. They could drop mastery from 1% per point to 0.9%. I actually thought that was why they put mastery IN to the game, to be able to easily adjust DPS.

As an additional thought - they say theyre making Cobra/Steady shot scale with haste - what IF the scaling with haste means they provide more focus the more haste you have? We'd be looking at a whole new level of theorycrafting, where softcaps would provide sick benefits hitting (much like healers and their HoT's).

[Aljaser]

As an additional thought - they say theyre making Cobra/Steady shot scale with haste - what IF the scaling with haste means they provide more focus the more haste you have? We'd be looking at a whole new level of theorycrafting, where softcaps would provide sick benefits hitting (much like healers and their HoT's).

You know in the Fast and the Furious when Vin Diesel says "I live my life a quarter mile at a time?

Hunters DPS 6 seconds at a time.

The most basic question asked in Survival DPS is "What can I fit in between two explosive shots without delaying the second?" Unless they change focus regen or haste effect on cobra to a MASSIVE degree, the best answer will remain 3 cobra shots (or 2 cobra shots and a black arrow, or two cobra shots and two kill shots). The only ways I see that changing is if Cobra gets to a point where it can be easily hasted to 1.5 seconds and generates enough focus to power an explosive and two arcane, making the base rotation:

ES (1s GCD, 6s CD)
CSx2 (3s, 2s CD remains)
ASx2 (2s GCD, 0s CD remains)
ES (repeat)

or if enough focus is restored to do:

ES (1s GCD, 6s CD)
CSx3 (5s, 0s CD remains)
ES (1s GCD, 6s CD)
ASx2 (2s GCD, 3s CD remains)
CSx1 (1.66s, 1.34s CD remains)
ASx1 (1s GCD, 0.34s CD remains)
ES (repeat)

Both of which require CS to restore an extraordinary amount of focus. The first requires CS + regen to restore full focus in two shots, the second requires it to restore 75 focus in one shot. So yeah, don't see that happening.

[jmacphee9]

Wow, someone is blind.

lolz is someone still using volley?

[sapiorion]

lolz is someone still using volley?

I don't get what your saying? Are you meaning you have crap aoe right now as surv? U mad man? It's crazy atm.

[Woims]

Now, I could be wrong, but I believe they took away the serpent spread nerf on MS. I think SS still applies to all targets with MS.