Heroics will and SHOULD be easy next major patch.

[numerius]

Nerf bat has swung. That should help PuGs. It does look like they weren't completely neutered. That's a good thing.

[Elektrik]

The people complaining about wanting heroic nerfs are the same ones that will let their raid down when they step into those. Heroics get easier by default. They don't need nerfed.

This, along with all the other "if you think heroics are hard, you aren't ready for raids" comments, are ridiculous. I personally have been raiding since Vanilla. In big guilds, small guilds, progression guilds, casual guilds. I've done it all. I'm a good player. I know what I'm doing.

That being said, I'm 20% of a heroic run. Maybe I can do twice as much damage as another guy in my group, interrupt twice as many spells, and stand in 1/2 the fire, but even that only accounts for ~40%. Even if I'm twice as good as the next best person, there's still 60% room for failure.

I don't necessarily want heroics to be nerfed, I just completely disagree with the comments about wiping in a heroic meaning you aren't prepared for raiding. If you're in a guild run and can't clear a heroic, then your guild clearly isn't ready, but it really doesn't transfer to a single person in a 5 man group of random people.

[Bumbaclot]

I agree, in part, with the OP. I do understand that heroics will become easier as the expansion advances on, but I was hoping that would happen due to overgearing, rather than "overnerfing".

[ZtriDer]

Why is it that you think heroics is the next step for one before raiding? Do you think everyone raid? Do you think everyone has the time to set off for raiding? Casuals play when they have the time for it. They do not form RL around when they can raid. They play when they have the time.

Heroics should be hard to give them the ability to experiance content instead of giving everyone fast heroics and free gear.

[Deleted]

You're not to bright, are ya? Even at that gear level, there are many abilities that can still cause a wipe or deaths. He didn't say the healer has a hard time keeping the tank up, or the have a hard time meeting enrage timers.

I'm thinking you should apply some critical thinking.

First up, insulting me is not necessary.

Now, just in case we're talking across purposes here; I was referring to his comment that the nerfs were not necessary and yet he was challenged in a full guild group in 355 gear who are surely very familiar with every encounter by now.

So, if an encounter for a competent 355 geared guild group is challenging, it's obviously far more challenging at 329 (for which the encounters were designed) in a LFD PuG due to the inherent nature of such a big gear upgrade and communication reduction to the point it becomes too difficult or impossible (beauty with no cc, 1st sfk with no interupts etc).

Therefore to suggest a nerf isn't necessary or is in fact stupid when his much superior party is challenged, is dubious at best. Health pools, mana pools, damage mitigation stats and dps are hugely different between the two, which gives far more of a "buffer" between success and failure.

I can't think of any boss ability off the top of my head, which isn't made nearly trivial - i.e. you can ignore the mechanic as the player can eat any damage done and not die instantly - by the additional stats from such an upgrade, if you can, please point them out.

[Gohzerlock]

Too many people cried, if heroics are too hard for you now ur bad. Blizz just screwed themselves on the content having some extended life, how do you think these heroics will play out by the time the next raids are out? It'll be wrath all over again. Whats heroic about these dungeons?

[Munki]

The dungeons themselves have nothing to do with difficulty, your group has EVERYTHING to do with difficulty.

Full guild run even in the lowest iLvl for heroic - yeah we cleared them, took a bit and yes we played smart and used CC. Now that we have heroic gear we can do the same dungeons with little to no CC because the group is smart and know what they are doing.

Joining a complete random, i mean everyone is different servers/guilds and have never met each other - this is the place where all QQ is coming from. I mean i had a tank with 110k Buffed in a heroic...... did he realize he was not the most geared? no he wanted faster queues and figured i got high enough iLvl if i mix in my DPS gear and charged in to full pulls and got one shot (well 5 things each hitting you once) no def CDs used, no forwarning, no CC.

If everyone took a moment to actually read up on there class, new dungeons (and yes if asked will explain fights to PuGs), the world would be a better place. Until then, Guild runs FTW.

[Sylvaneart]

I like the current(pre-nerf announce) lvl of heroics.

Look there are plenty of reason to run heroics. Whatever yours is is fine.
Gear up for raiding - I raid and everyone in the raid needs to be in mostly heroic gear
Gear up for heroics - If you don't raid I am sure you still want to have the best gear available
Farm JP for gear - If it is for raiding or more heroics......Whatever you do is fine
Do the daily random for VP - If it is for raiding or more heroics......Whatever you do is fine
Achievs - I do them but hey thats me if you don't want to, don't
Rep - I want them all maxed. If you don't thats fine

Many have talked about getting raiding skill from heroics. Personally I think questing from 1-85 and doing regular 5 mans should have taught you this. Heroics is more of the test IMO. When you first enter heroics with min gear LFD allows on everyone the encounter can still be beat IF you know what your doing. Don't wait until now to learn how to interupt and CC. Once the 5mans are over geared or over nerfed there isnt a benchmark to test with. IE if the tank dosn't move out of a certain mechanic and gets 1 shot I would think he/she now knows not to stand there. Once gear is high and nerfs are in the tank might stand there and take the shot but not die. Maybe they learned but probably not. Did heroic GB the other night Druid healer stood there and took every charge from 1st boss. He lived.........after the 5th wipe. We tried to tell him man you can't stand there and take that. He was going OOM healing himself. In a raid these mechanics are always 1 shots. He said he just tunnels his healing frames and dosn't notice those things. Well good luck and I am glad i don't raid with you. Please learn to get out of stuff before doing heroics as it is test time not class time.

Many(not all) casuals and even some who call themselves hardcore players are complaining heroics are too hard. They really arn't. You don't need vent. You don't need to be stacked with a certain class. You need to know your class and role. The others in your grp need to know theres as well. You need to have the minimum gear lvl with gear that acctually makes sense for your toon. IF you don't raid thats fine but what are you going to do when you have all the heroic stuff you want? You will be facerolling heroics to a point and complaining about the new 85 that is in your pug pulling 6K DPS to your 12K. I don't kick bad DPS unless the can't control there toon and pull extra mobs or can't stay out of things. If they keep getting themselves killed i usually don't kick them and just laugh at there repair bill. I kick bad healers when the grp is avaoding all avodable damage but they still can't keep up. Either not enough heals or going OOM. They need to learn to heal in cata. They need to learn this BEFORE coming to heroics. I kick bad tanks if they don't understand CC and break it constantly. I don't kick for threat i just adjust my play. I also kick if they don't use defensive CD and just expect the healer to keep them up. I have the luxury of having a full heroic tank set in my bags if this happens. I can tank any heroic in bear but preffer to DPS as cat.

This ended up being longer then i wanted but the bottom line is that heroics arn't EASY but they arn't impossible. You don't need a guild grp. You don't need vent. These things help but really what you need is people who know how to play before they get to heroics. Soon enough we will out gear the heroics nerfed or not. New 85s will be spending JP on 359 gear before you know it. No nerfs are needed.

[hunter1207]

heroics should be and harder not easier nuff said

[Arcangel14]

People forget that in wrath you were in 251-277 gear doing an ilvl 200 heroic. Of course its going to be faceroll, you out-gear it by 4 tiers....
Cata will be the same. Next patch will hit, people will be geared and heroics will be a joke, because thats the point. They are supposed to be hard at first, then when you are raid-gear equipped, they become easy

[Algore]

Try taking your meds kid, heroics aren't hard, they weren't hard the 2nd reset after people had run normals to gain the gear and LEARN the fights / pulls..! Raids still posses a challenge with some bosses.., you're rant is indicating it should become WotlK style once more, looking at the patch notes Blizz is slowly already going down that patch again with their fucking retarded nerf-hammer despite admitting that exp was a mistake of epic proportions. Some of the class changes they made, makes it look like they're hittin' the crack-pipes HARD!

If this is the result of all the badz, or mentaly disabled as I tend to refer to them, streaming various forums down about how hard n' unfair the game had become.., then fuckin gj Blizz, perhaps once this exp is over you can do yet another post like the one Gc made stating how you in hindsight can see that the changes you made was a mistake.
It strikes me as very odd that one of your game designers can openly admit that things are perfectly fine as long as people use some common sense n' worked as a group, yet 1 month into this exp n' you're already swingin the nerf-hammer like there's no tomorrow.., so many players have given thoughts about coming back after quitting with WotlK due to the intensity n' challenge of this exp, if their eyes land on today's patch-blue they're probably already starting to forget coming back.

That's why we wiped on first boss in HoO 10times and on Rajh 7 times :P

[Chadwixx]

Doing heroics in 40mins now with no cc as a tank, heal and dps.

They arent very hard. The sfk nerf annoys me. How are bads expected to raid when they cant even interupt something? Its pretty much a "can you pay attension for 2mins" check.

[Askyl]

If you really, seriously, really think these heroics are to hard. You're just doing pugs with morons and play bad yourself. When I dinged 85 (some time before my mates, since they rolled worgen) I pugged from the ilvl you needed for heroics (as healer) to full heroic gear with only 2 heroics failing (SFK, hard when you haven't done it before) and Grim Batol because DPS was pretty slacky.

Sure, a few wipes. But if you just stay with your group you'll get the boss down when you've learned what to do. Since I had ilvl 346 heroics have been cakewalk, even with slacky DPS.

It's even easier with IRLs / Guildies.

Sure, some bosses were really hard, but not unbeatable, with a fresh group of ilvl 230s. But really, just l2p.

[anyaka21]

Or the groups you run along with need to learn. In this case run with other people. If pugs are always failures for you, make a few friends or join a guild (it is a mmo after all. You want to play solo there are other games for that). So many people say that a guild is not the answer. Well, if thats the case for you, fine, but then don't expect an easier time in one of the harder parts of the game. Guilds actually are the answer. Its super easy to get in one. You have many many perks (guild perks and otherwise). You can find competent people that you can rely on and actually get stuff done with. Plus, its not like all guilds have strict requirements or anything either. If you play one day a week, 1-2 hours on that single day, I guarantee you can still find a guild that will have you. Its a MMO, and group game. Things should be harder for you if you are going against the grain.

This game has many forms of progression. Try not to skip parts by going lvling>couple normals to pad gear>heroic. If you do, you are sure to struggle and make those you group with struggle as well. If you can't do heroics yet, try some of the other forms of progression... like finding a good guild and building a spot for yourself. Stock up on rep to get the rep rewards... Farm mats for money and helping out with your runs...

Here's the thing, even people in guilds, even people in good guilds need to pug, or not run. The problem with the "get a guild, run heroics with guild" strat is simple. Not everyone is on all the time, not every one is on and ready to do a heroic when you are. No one is going to set a "raid" time schedule to run a 5man. So unless that is what you are suggesting, run a 5man raid, then I think your premise here is completely and utterly bad. People run heroics when they have time, and it's not dependent on 4 other people in the guild to be on. Sure some choose to not run outside of guild runs, and that's fine, but you can't put that on a few million other people, basically telling them to get a guild, do guild runs or gtfo. That's absurd.

And to add to that thought, lots of guilds now are one and done. Decently geared raid type peeps, only want to get their one heroic done per day and not have to deal with the hassle, the time, etc... of doing a heroic. Thus leaving those that are not on at the exact right time when a guild group is forming out in the cold. Thus it's pug or nothing.

And as far as the progression part that you talk about run normals until you get the rep for rewards? Did you? And if that were the case, there'd be about 10 guilds running raids in all of WoW at this point. Most wouldn't be done with their rep rewards. And add that how would you like to run 3 normal instances right now, over and over and over and over and over and over and over again? Wouldn't be fun. Especially since normals give about half the rep of a heroic. Most toons wouldn't even be fully rep'ed out yet. And as said, unless you have done it this way, then that makes your suggestion hypocritical.

[sadistic]

Well said. But I am going to post this in every thread I hear about heroics being easy now. You still need to pay attention to mechanics. In wrath you could pretty much ignore the mechanics and still down the boss regardless, if you ignore them now, you will recieve an instagib or the heals spending a quarter of their mana pool healing you EACH FAIL, and the fights last long enough that you can oom the heals that way.

yeah, and i dont heal dumbasses who stand in the fire ^.^ I'll watch you die first lol

[DrNemesis]

Nerf bat has swung. That should help PuGs. It does look like they weren't completely neutered. That's a good thing.

Nice to see not everyone is getting their knickers in a twist.

[TheBloodKrayze]

How hard is it to listen to what someone said.

Buff me please, sheep or sap this target please, rez me please.

I don't see your point. whatisthisidonteven

Also I didn't point man up to you, it was to anyone who is whining. I read your post, stop getting so defensive.

It seems the only one whining is you.

[Mindfreakz]

It seems the only one whining is you.

Yes I'm whining for stating facts, that makes perfect sense /sarcasm

Are people seriously so stupid they believe if someone disagrees with them they are whining?


My point is, if you believed heroics were hard to begin with it's you and/or the people in your groups. I pugged most of my heroics and we still did fine. Most of them full cleared, only some I left due to raiding or taking a break from wow. If you can't CC, you break CC, you pull low dps, you try to ignore simple mechanics like not standing in fire then You.Will.Fail. /thread.

[cherb]

If their not into PvP and the heroics to get geared for raids are too hard, they will quit.

This is where most logic seems to fail, IMO, when it comes to heroics. Heroics are not just about gearing for raids. They are about teaching you how to play your character better and help to understand how to react to situations when in a group environment. People seem to think that heroics should be "give me gear so I can raid", when it really is "do this heroic so you know what is going on down the road in the raids". If you want easier heroics so that you have the gear to raid with, then you will just hurt yourself that much more because you will not have been assisted in learning how to deal with complicated mechanics.

People forget that in wrath you were in 251-277 gear doing an ilvl 200 heroic. Of course its going to be faceroll, you out-gear it by 4 tiers....
Cata will be the same. Next patch will hit, people will be geared and heroics will be a joke, because thats the point. They are supposed to be hard at first, then when you are raid-gear equipped, they become easy

Also, WotLK heroics were easy on day 1. In sunwell / black temple gear. Naxx was also easy in 3/4 sunwell/BT gear and 1/4 heroic/quest gear. They also did not teach people anything. Because you could faceroll them with gear that was 10 levels below the cap. Don't compare the 2, because wrath heroics were NEVER difficult at all.

[Agallochh]

Hope you know that there are both nerfs and buffs to heroics in the next patch.

Also hope you know heroics already aren't hard.