Ferals, Valor Point Rewards, and a Lack of Agility Rings

[Zetapuppy]

I'm a bit curious what all my fellow cats and bears are spending their hard-earned VPs on. After saving up from purchasing the relic due to horrible luck with none of the Heroic variants dropping, I'm now looking into what to buy next as a kitty. I'm sitting at 1260 VPs, so naturally, I flipped through and quickly cataloged what I could buy... Cloaks and rings. Alright, I've still got a 346 cloak and one 346 ring, so this could work out.

Hold on a minute. There aren't any rings with Agility on them. None at all! Well this is a downer. The only Agility-bearing cloak has crit and hit, which doesn't make it worth buying until later on because of the mastery lost on my current cloak to the reforged amount on that. The trinkets aren't very good either since they offer a ton of hit and a stacking Agility buff, which would maybe be nice if I didn't already have Unsolvable Riddle and heroic Tia's Grace.

So what, then? Should I just save up to buy the pants since they're the most cat-friendly piece, or is there something else I should look into? And has Blizzard ever said they would address the lack of Agility VP rings (or state why they're missing?)

My (anonymous) Armory link: http://www.armorytool.com/wow-charac...ight-elf-2046/

[Fojos]

I bought the relic and the trinket first, because they're BIS (Yes, fluid death is better than the 372 trinkets as well).

[Ins0mnia]

There are more problems currently;
Enchanting lacking 2 hand enchanting
No Spirit gear with Tailors.

So this doesn't suprise me.

[Jon]

The required tier pieces before anything else ofc.

[Zetapuppy]

I bought the relic and the trinket first, because they're BIS (Yes, fluid death is better than the 372 trinkets as well).

I saw the same thing when I plugged my character into Rawr, but I'm not sure how much weight to give that. It's still telling me to reforge virtually everything to Haste while Mew provides completely contradictory stat values. I think Rawr might be having issues differentiating between cats and bears right now, because Fluid Death being BiS and reforging/gemming for the hit cap sounds like what bears should be doing.

The required tier pieces before anything else ofc.

That's basically what I'm about to settle on, although I keep hoping that Argaloth will be nice to me and drop something useful... Even though virtually none of the VoA bosses ever did.

[Deleted]

From what i've seen and heard about the lack of agility rings would be because agility ring(epic) is the only one you can obtain by farming reputation. And having a high crit / mastery rating could be very useful with the bleed dmg getting quite nerfed(as it looks like right now) in the next patch. And as you kind of quoted upthere, Reforge is your friend.

And too Jon about the set pieces, i've seen some calculations that the 365 epic pvpgear setbonuses(flat agility, our most beloved stat) would bring out more dps then the 359 tier sets would. Due to that hit and expertise cap ain't that "fly" right now.

[Fojos]

I saw the same thing when I plugged my character into Rawr, but I'm not sure how much weight to give that. It's still telling me to reforge virtually everything to Haste while Mew provides completely contradictory stat values. I think Rawr might be having issues differentiating between cats and bears right now, because Fluid Death being BiS and reforging/gemming for the hit cap sounds like what bears should be doing.

The hit on the item doesn't matter, it's the agility proc that makes it and tia's grace so powerful.

[Conatzer]

The rep ring is why we dont have one for VP

[Zetapuppy]

And having a high crit / mastery rating could be very useful with the bleed dmg getting quite nerfed(as it looks like right now) in the next patch. And as you kind of quoted upthere, Reforge is your friend.

And too Jon about the set pieces, i've seen some calculations that the 365 epic pvpgear setbonuses(flat agility, our most beloved stat) would bring out more dps then the 359 tier sets would. Due to that hit and expertise cap ain't that "fly" right now.

From what I've read, after the nerf, the only stat value weight that's moving up any positions is haste, being in line with and occasionally better than crit (to a point.) Weapon DPS shoots up, mastery sags slightly but remains firmly in second, and haste is finally useful again being the short of it. I've got a pretty obscene amount of mastery (22.90, +71% bleed damage) and crit (~42% with MotW and Tia's at 10x) so I shouldn't be in a bad position after the fact... But everything is still in the air as far as this upcoming patch goes.

Not sure how I feel about buying PvP items for PvE purposes yet, but numbers don't lie. I'll have to look into that.

From what i've seen and heard about the lack of agility rings would be because agility ring(epic) is the only one you can obtain by farming reputation.

The rep ring is why we dont have one for VP

Makes sense. Thanks.

[Mnemon]

Basically the options are not great from valor but many options aren't great in general for drops. You will want to get 4pc tier 11, so buy the chest and legs since you'll have to get them anyway. Legs you might get lucky and get a drop in BH. Trinket is bis. It may seem sucky cause of the hit, but you can reforge a good chunk of that into mastery and the stacking agility makes it way higher than anything else. The agility is fully stacked almost instantly and stays up. Just buy whatever is an upgrade and reforge the worst stat into mastery. We're pretty much forced into doing that.

[Fojos]

The rep ring is why we dont have one for VP

Doesn't really make sense though. Because other epic items from reputation also get an option from VP. Heck, str tanks even get three epic cloak options.

[Meleti]

My upgrades so far:

Fluid Death
T11 pants
Relic

I will probably just get my T11 chest next, so I can get a shot at a 272 chest (and pick up the bonus).

[Arielle]

Valor items you should be getting:

Pants, Relic, and 2x Fluid Death (one reforged to Dodge and one not).

After those pick up the Helm so you can upgrade it to the Heroic version.

Everything else is replaced by raid drops.

Edit: I should clarify. This is for Bears.

[Deleted]

For Bears, there is actually no static answer.

- For the relic, I daresay, even if you are pvp-moron like me, getting 3 wins in arena to get a better tank idol than the VP one (the pvp 365) is very easy. I would recommend it.

- If you are raiding, you will find out that pretty much all you need to be full epiczorz 359 drops off "early bosses". Let's take a quick look:
Bastion boss 1- boots, weapon. Boss 2- trinket 1, neck.
BWD boss1- wrists, trinket 2. Boss 2- shoulders, ring 1.

That means that these are statistically easy upgrades, since any decent raid should not have a lot of problems killing those for bosses.

If you add in the gloves from Wildhammer/Dragonmaw, the ring from the Circle (Vash'ir), all you are missing is something for your head, chest, and legs.

Now legs, you could be lucky with Argaloth, or not. All in all, drops are so rare it is a safe bet to get the t11 there.
Chest, you can craft, or you can get the t11 in spite of the fact it has crappy bear stats on. If you're a gambler and hope the legs will drop, get it.
Head, finally, is a bit of a conundrum if you're not an engineer. My recommendation is to get a nice AH business going on, saving some gold, and by Tsanga's helm if you see it under 20k. You won't regret it, there is no upgrade before Nefarian or Cho'gall.

So, to answer your question, for bears I would recommend spending VP on T11 legs first to be sure.

Then, 3 options:
- focus your second spec, whichever it is, if you play it often, because the rest of the VP stuff is not that attractive for bears.
- If you 10-man a lot, and you need to interrupt a lot as a bear, and you don't have Key to the Endless Chamber, get Fluid Death, it's a great situational trinket for bears too, for the fights you need to interrupt reliably.
- If you already have the Key, you don't play cat, and you don't give two craps about your second spec, then buy the chest, because, hey, every druid looks better wearing a robe anyway :]

[Deleted]

I am a feral kitty. After reading several guides and my own observation, I decided for some decent amount of hit and thus not to be frustrated by a huge miss chance, still I stick with the "mastery is all u need" flow. Therefore my first buy was tier legs (crit/mastery being the best combo) and replace my old awfull expertise ones. There are fights where I suffer badly (facing Al'akir in p2 10man, Theralion ground phase etc.), but due to high mastery/crit (over 22) I still do pretty well in overall.

My second VP buy will be probably a tier piece as well, just to get the 2/4 bonus. I still wait for Atramedes chest to drop (then it will be tier hands) cause tier chest is just awfull (exp/haste).

Unsolvable Riddle/Tia's Grace HC combo is imo by far the most powerfull combo atm. Now I know many ppl don't like the "use" trinkets and they like procs instead. No. Due to mechanics of the raid bosses, I found far better a use one. eg Atramedes and his air phase - just burn the Riddle, and refresh both bleeds just before he takes off/Enigma drops. Wish there was a stacking 359 trinket, which would be a best choice. I wouldn't buy Fluid Death, as we really don't need that much hit.

Relic - I got the SFK one, and atm I don't feel like replacing it with 359, it's really a minor and still very expensive improvement.

I would also wait with buying a cloak, as Maloriak drops a BIS one and it's not that hard to kill him.

Feel free to check the armory in my sig, afterall.

Zeta and your feel about haste - I'm really not sure here. I've seen kittens stacking haste, so the white % went up, but I personally never did it, not even in wotlk untill I was ArP/crit capped. When I checked the logs, I always performed better in lower gear than the "hasty" ones. I also tried 0 and cca 900 haste energy regen in cata, I just don't feel it's worth it.

Sorry about the grammar, not a "native"

[Kioga]

I am a feral kitty. After reading several guides and my own observation, I decided for some decent amount of hit and thus not to be frustrated by a huge miss chance, still I stick with the "mastery is all u need" flow. Wish there was a stacking 359 trinket, which would be a best choice. I wouldn't buy Fluid Death, as we really don't need that much hit.

I can't follow your logic here. First you say you like stacking hit while keeping mastery high and you wish there was a 359 stacking trinket (see Fluid Death). Then you say Fluid Death, which multiple simulators and Rawr consider to be BIS, has too much hit to be useful? Did you consider reforging the excess into mastery?

[Deleted]

Decent was not the right word. What I meant was I'm not hit capped and I'm not trying to. I have some (for my playstyle) necessary hit, but I wouldn't buy an epic trinket with 321 hit, even if I can reforge it. HC Tia is imo better, due to full mastery bonus AND stacking agi (even with weaker stats), and so will probably be the new alch agi trinket with crit.
(OT: I don't trust Rawr and simulators. I tested it a lot on Wotlk, never satisfied me. Not to mention the encounter mechanics, which might mess up procs, timing of abilities and stuff.)

Sorry about that, I used a wrong word there.

[Kioga]

OP: The FLUID DRUID ran the numbers and found that the t11 legs are the biggest upgrade for those still using a 346 item.

http://fluiddruid.net/2011/01/valor-...uick-analysis/

In my setup I use the 4p pvp bonus + 346 HP legs. Rawr is showing that upgrading to the T11 legs (even without bonus) is still a 200pt gain for me. Upgrading my trinkets (Key + Tia's Grace) to Fluid Death + Tia's Grace only gains about 110pt.

So Im saving my points for the Legs or hoping they drop from BH and then I will buy another T11 for the 2pc bonus. Afterwards I will pick up Fluid Death.

[Madrail]

OP: The FLUID DRUID ran the numbers and found that the t11 legs are the biggest upgrade for those still using a 346 item.

http://fluiddruid.net/2011/01/valor-...uick-analysis/

In my setup I use the 4p pvp bonus + 346 HP legs. Rawr is showing that upgrading to the T11 legs (even without bonus) is still a 200pt gain for me. Upgrading my trinkets (Key + Tia's Grace) to Fluid Death + Tia's Grace only gains about 110pt.

So Im saving my points for the Legs or hoping they drop from BH and then I will buy another T11 for the 2pc bonus. Afterwards I will pick up Fluid Death.

I generally either go with this logic, or closest valor/badge item value compared to reasonably expected raid drops. I ended up getting the cloak first, because it was an okay upgrade, and has a relatively low value difference between it and raid cloaks. Grabbed the pvp epic relic and don't feel any need to spend points on the valor one. I'm generally willing to hold off on tier gear because unless someone else is interested I'll generally take the GP hit (EPGP looting) for any reasonable upgrade. So if it seems likely that I'll have a good chance of getting 2 pieces of offset, I'll wait and decide later about picking up 2p. Or if I get lucky with BH and get 1 piece I might spend my next set of points to get 2piece.

[Di4tribe]

I think that for bears, the best way to spend VP are the way suggested by Nodata:

-Don't buy the VP Relic.
-Don't waste your VP on boots worst than those dropping on Halfus (first and easiest boss of Twilight Bastion).
-I think that you should use VP to buy Cloak > ChestT11 (if you don't buy the crafted one, but you should) > LegsT11

- For the relic, I daresay, even if you are pvp-moron like me, getting 3 wins in arena to get a better tank idol than the VP one (the pvp 365) is very easy. I would recommend it.

I totally agree. According to Rawr, the pvp relic is better than the Valor one for bear on average boss (raid10 and 25).

Don't waste 900 VP on the relic for a minor gain if you can get a better one with only a week of arena.

- If you are raiding, you will find out that pretty much all you need to be full epiczorz 359 drops off "early bosses". Let's take a quick look:
Bastion boss 1- boots, weapon. Boss 2- trinket 1, neck.
BWD boss1- wrists, trinket 2. Boss 2- shoulders, ring 1.

That means that these are statistically easy upgrades, since any decent raid should not have a lot of problems killing those for bosses.

If you add in the gloves from Wildhammer/Dragonmaw, the ring from the Circle (Vash'ir), all you are missing is something for your head, chest, and legs.

You are also missing a cloak. A better one is dropping on Maloriak (4th boss?). In my guild, it is probably harder to get the cloak than the legsT11, so I choose to buy the cloak first.

But as you said it, it is not a static answer (except the fact that bears should probably not waste VP on the relic and on the boots if better ones are available easily).