Anti-Haste after 9% SHDW PRIEST - after testing

[rubadub]

I've done testing,

AFTER ~8.8% haste (+darkness 3% + shadowform 5%) haste does not increase the amount of ticks on the adds unless you stack madd haste which is worthless and neither does our mindflay.

after testing;

at ~9% haste i'm getting 3 channeled mindflay procs, 10 devouring plague procs, 7 shadow word pain procs and 6 vampric touch procs
mindblast is a 1.27sec cast and vampric touch is a 1.27sec cast

at 14.35% haste i'm getting 3 channeled mindflay procs, 10 devouring plague procs and 7 shadow word pain procs and 6 vampric touch procs
mindblast is a 1.2sec cast and vampric touch is a 1.2 sec cast

it's not until 14.6%~ where it adds an extra proc to ONLY shadow word pain and nothing else (which is worthless because its constantly getting refreshed by mindflay anyway).

is it worth stacking haste after 9%? I feel like the amount of haste we need to actually benifit from it is not worth the gain...

IMO after 9% haste, stack intellect

opinions?

[zenkai]

http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=30171

[fords42]

Each spell only has X amount of procs anyway, but what haste does is make the spells tick faster. This means more procs in a shorter period of time so we condense our DoT damage, meaning a more exciting spell rotation seeing as our spells need recasting more often.

[rubadub]

so what hes saying is that you get a extra .3 secs to cast a mind flay so its better to keep stacking haste?

i disagree...dots clipping no longer exist and intellect is our best stat by far so its better to gem intellect and not reforge for haste after you reach the 9% minimum...?

---------- Post added 2011-01-12 at 11:24 AM ----------

http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=30171

my point is that after 9%, the amount of procs doesnt change much in the time that they are up...the duration of the dot doesnt extend either. so its kindve worthless imo

[Deleted]

so what hes saying is that you get a extra .3 secs to cast a mind flay so its better to keep stacking haste?

i disagree...dots clipping no longer exist and intellect is our best stat by far so its better to gem intellect and not reforge for haste after you reach the 9% minimum...?

And how exactly do you reforge int into haste? Gemming is obviously int, unless the socket bonus is really worth it, but haste is the best rating available for us.

[rubadub]

you don't...you leave the gear as is... after 9% imo crit > haste

i was stating this because alot of people reforge crit and mastery to haste...but after 9% haste its not worth doing

[cruxxy]

Your comparison is poor. Int does not compare with Haste. Int should be a priority in every single way. This is why you should never gem yellow, green or blue. Only red, orange, or purple - mostly red.

The secondary stats - haste, crit, mast, hit/spirit - should be compared and the shadowpriest thread posted delves into haste quite thoroughly.


So tell me this. In a typical fight, for how much time does your target not have your 3 dots on it? The correct answer is zero. You should have 100% DoT uptime. If you do, then essentially, your VT is a single DoT on your target for the whole fight. And so haste will increase your DoT damage linearly. DoTs no longer "restart" when you recast them.

But go with your "o". Just don't expect a lot of people to follow you.

[rubadub]

imo secondary stat crit > haste after 9%

so that post is telling me that haste increases the duration of dots?

[Deleted]

you don't...you leave the gear as is... after 9% imo crit > haste

i was stating this because alot of people reforge crit and mastery to haste...but after 9% haste its not worth doing

Crit is not better than haste - to find out exact values for your current gear level sim it out, I'm not going to put in some arbitrary value.

Haste always makes dots and MF tick faster, not only when it adds additional tick.

[BurningStick]

imo secondary stat crit > haste after 9%

so that post is telling me that haste increases the duration of dots?

Can you shows us solid math that states / demonstrates in which way crit is worth more dps per point than haste? If not, I dont really care much for your "opinion" and "experience"

[rubadub]

my point is that they they proc the same amount of times before you ahve to refresh them at 9% and 15% haste...so why is it so valuable, you have to refresh them anyway...

[Pozz]

imo secondary stat crit > haste after 9%

so that post is telling me that haste increases the duration of dots?

Actually that post says that there's no point being at the "haste cap" as you'll be over that whenever a haste effect occours. It also says that the damage gained by staying at these points are negligible and impossible to uphold, and that as such gained extra damage from the tick times by getting more haste is far superior to trying to stay near these so called "haste caps" or "plateaus"

[cruxxy]

imo secondary stat crit > haste after 9%

so that post is telling me that haste increases the duration of dots?

Sigh... the duration of VT, DP, and SWP are a constant. The interval between DoT ticks is shortened by haste. When you refresh a DoT before it falls off, it resets the duration but does not reset or change the timing of the next DoT tick.

Please stop.

[rubadub]

Can you shows us solid math that states / demonstrates in which way crit is worth more dps per point than haste? If not, I dont really care much for your "opinion" and "experience"

I'm not going to...

i'm just saying over the duration of however long the dots exist (24 secs, 10 secs) whatever it is...the amount of procs at 9% are the same at 15%...you still have to refresh them after 24 secs or 10 secs regardless... because the haste isnt effecting the amount of procs that ar ehappening over that amount of time...i don't see a reason to stack haste when I can just stack crit and get the same result from gear

---------- Post added 2011-01-12 at 11:38 AM ----------

Sigh... the duration of VT, DP, and SWP are a constant. The interval between DoT ticks is shortened by haste. When you refresh a DoT before it falls off, it resets the duration but does not reset or change the timing of the next DoT tick.

Please stop.

thx, that makes more sense to meh

[Pozz]

my point is that they they proc the same amount of times before you ahve to refresh them at 9% and 15% haste...so why is it so valuable, you have to refresh them anyway...

They proc the same AMOUNT of times but will tick faster. Meaning more procs/minute thus higher damage.

[Deleted]

my point is that they they proc the same amount of times before you ahve to refresh them at 9% and 15% haste...so why is it so valuable, you have to refresh them anyway...

By that thinking haste was utterly worthless pre-4.0, because DoTs never ticked more than a set amount of times and just shortened with it - but you know what? It was the best stat for us back then, beating even spellpower point per point. Go figure.

[rubadub]

thx for the feedback

[Backreaper]

At 10% haste your VT gains an extra tick in it's duration, after that shadow word: pain gains a tick at 18.75%
so it would seem silly to just stop stacking haste at 9%

like stated before the dot's uptime isn't affected by haste, the amount of ticks they do is, for more info on this stuff go read newnoise's guide stickied at the top

[Deleted]

Haste will always reduce the actual cast time of let's say mind flay's ticking. But there's a formula for how much haste it takes regarding raid, talents gear etc. So I wouldn't really stop at a certain point just to boost another stat. Haste is still beneficial even if it isn't noticable or you see the difference in practice. It still valuable stat and shouldn't be ignored at a certain point, same goes for critt & mastery and so on.

[magnem]

I have 19.5% haste in my spell book..
Vampiric Touch ticks 7 times
Devouring Plague ticks 10 times
SW:Pain ticks 8 times.

Edit: 8 tick on sw: pain not 7
VT 7 not 6
I was counting the ticks in the combat log instead of using Recount at first...

According to my addon, when I cast Devouring Plague, the countdown starts at 23 sec and goes to 22 imidiately.
When I get trinket procc which puts me at 23% haste the count down starts at 24 and i get 11 ticks ("12" with imp dp hit)

Without trinket procc (haste) recount reports that the dot has been up for 23 sec for devouring plague (10 ticks).
With trinket procc it show it has been up for 24.4 sec with 11 ticks.