New computer help

[arcangel1337]

I recently got a new job allowing me to have a little extra money for play. My first big concern is my computer. I currently run WoW and other games with a 10 year old gateway with 1GB Ram and a motherboard built-in graphics card. There are more horrible specs I could present, but I think you get the point.
My second point is I've never built a computer before and I don't know how to pick out compatible parts and I don't know any good brand names etc.
I saw the setup of the month builds and heard nothing but negative comments on them.
I could either spend ~600-700$ now or wait a month or so and spend a little more. I would like to get rid of this piece of junk as soon as possible though.

Any help would be appreciated. Just point me in the right direction

[vesseblah]

Does the ~$700 budget include stuff like Win7 license and monitor, or you have those already sorted?

This premade computer from NewEgg is pretty close to your budget and no assembly required. It's fairly well balanced general purpose gaming computer, not the best components for WoW, but will run it well enough.

[arcangel1337]

Oh yea, I already have Win 7 Ultimate, 2 monitors, a decent keyboard that I will upgrade later, and a razer Naga

What do you mean it's not the best for wow?

[Narn]

That would run maxed on Ultra I'm pretty sure. Don't know how much better you'd get for WoW.

The debate is AMD vs INTEL. INTEL wins in performance right now. But I have to go with AMD, I'm not a fan of the new built in DRM with INTEL's new chips. Even if it never gets used the idea that a processor can limit what i can do is just too much for me. I've also had an AMD chip in my personal machine since the 400mhz days.

Here is my build that i completed for 660 after rebates not too long ago.
Phenom II X4 965 Black
Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 1 GB GDDR5
Kingston HyperX 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Samsung 1 TB Spinpoint 7200 RPM 32MB Cache
Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Power Supply
ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 - AM3 - AMD 890GX
Antec Three Hundred Gaming Case

I'd recommend a modular power supply if i could pick a different one, and maybe a case with cable management. This runs wow on ultra at 60FPS.

[arcangel1337]

Sadly, I'm not sure what you mean about the difference between the processors.

I'm assuming your computers runs ultra settings pretty well? Is the 8GB really needed? And could you explain what you mean by the modular power supply? I feel dumb asking those kind of questions >.<

Do you know if those rebates are still being offered and where from?

Would http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Techn...4950052&sr=1-1 be a better idea with half the price? Or would they not fit given their size?

[gkai]

8gb is only needed if you're running a windows OS 64bits. If you're on a 34bit system your computer can only support up to 4g

[Cilraaz]

I'm assuming your computers runs ultra settings pretty well? Is the 8GB really needed? And could you explain what you mean by the modular power supply? I feel dumb asking those kind of questions >.<

I can't answer as to the performance question, though Phenom II x4 965's have been known to give good performance in WoW.

The 8GB is not needed, as 4GB is more than enough unless you have a memory intensive program that requires more.

A modular power supply is one that the cabling can be detached from the power supply. That way you only connect the cables you need, which allows you to typically keep the case tidier and gives better air flow.

8gb is only needed if you're running a windows OS 64bits. If you're on a 34bit system your computer can only support up to 4g

8GB isn't needed regardless of your OS. A 32-bit OS can only address up to 4GB of memory. That would include video memory, BIOS, kernel, etc. In reality, a 32-bit OS can only address up to about 3GB RAM, assuming a 1GB VRAM video card.

[Narn]

Intel just released their new Sandy Bridge chips. Which seems to blow everything else out of the water right now, especially at their current price point. The downside is they have added something called INTEL Insider, which is basically DRM. I'm willing to take a performance hit not to have DRM on my current processor. Not that I plan on ripping off streaming movies. But my hardware shouldn't stop me if I wanted too. That's why I went with AMD.

You can really get by with 4GB. I got a good deal and 8GB only cost me 58 bucks. 8 more dollars than the 4GB alternatives I was looking at.

Modular power supply lets you hook up the connections you need and not the ones you don't. My case looks like a freaking octopus.

Rebates usually come and go quickly. There are always some that pop up when others go off.

Don't feel bad about asking questions. Things have changed a bit in the last 10 years.

[gkai]

Intel just released their new Sandy Bridge chips. Which seems to blow everything else out of the water right now, especially at their current price point. The downside is they have added something called INTEL Insider, which is basically DRM. I'm willing to take a performance hit not to have DRM on my current processor. Not that I plan on ripping off streaming movies. But my hardware shouldn't stop me if I wanted too. That's why I went with AMD.

You can really get by with 4GB. I got a good deal and 8GB only cost me 58 bucks. 8 more dollars than the 4GB alternatives I was looking at.

Modular power supply lets you hook up the connections you need and not the ones you don't. My case looks like a freaking octopus.

Rebates usually come and go quickly. There are always some that pop up when others go off.

Don't feel bad about asking questions. Things have changed a bit in the last 10 years.

Yeah hey, my computer also has wires coming out everywhere, it's so messy; I've even got a huge computer case for wire management and it's still no match haha.

[arcangel1337]

I wouldn't like having a limit on my processor as well. I will have the 64 bit Win 7 on this machine so no need to worry about the amount of RAM.

So what I'm getting so far is:
Modular power supply is almost a must
Get an AMD processor
8GB is excessive, but if a deal comes up for it, get it

[Narn]

I did good just to keep all the cords out of the case fans.

8GBs basically gives you room to grow at this point. DDR3 RAM is very cheap right now. Now is the time to overbuy RAM even if you don't need it at the time.

---------- Post added 2011-01-13 at 02:46 PM ----------

I wouldn't like having a limit on my processor as well. I will have the 64 bit Win 7 on this machine so no need to worry about the amount of RAM.

So what I'm getting so far is:
Modular power supply is almost a must
Get an AMD processor
8GB is excessive, but if a deal comes up for it, get it

Just make sure you do your own research on that as well, don't let my paranoia influence you.
I'm happy with my new machine though. Also the new Intel chips still wouldn't have fit in my budget at the time. Its very easy to go over budget I had to make myself stick too it.

[Cilraaz]

The downside is they have added something called INTEL Insider, which is basically DRM.

It would probably be best for everyone to educate themselves before throw their hands up in the air and crying "DRM!". Unless you're really in to stealing movies, it doesn't affect you. Even then, I don't see Insider stopping anyone from torrenting their favorite movie once it's cracked (this is NOT endorsed, but stated as fact). It's there to facilitate a secure channel for studios to offer people another method of movie ownership.

[arcangel1337]

I've been researching non-stop since I posted this thread and I'm starting to realize I'm in a little over my head lol. I'm probably also going to have to wait until after taxes so I can spend more to get what I want.
Thank you guys for all of your help and I'll continue to read more on it all.

[Narn]

It would probably be best for everyone to educate themselves before throw their hands up in the air and crying "DRM!". Unless you're really in to stealing movies, it doesn't affect you. Even then, I don't see Insider stopping anyone from torrenting their favorite movie once it's cracked (this is NOT endorsed, but stated as fact). It's there to facilitate a secure channel for studios to offer people another method of movie ownership.

If you look up the definition of DRM, "Digital rights management (DRM) is a generic term for access control technologies that can be used by hardware manufacturers, publishers, copyright holders and individuals to impose limitations on the usage of digital content and devices. ..."

The Intel Insider is definitely DRM. I'm not saying there won't be someone who figured out a way around it in the first week. I'm just not happy about processors controlling what I can and can't do. I'm not advocating piracy. It's like everything it starts off small, but who knows where they take it from here. I can see this forcing you to buy these certain INTEL processors to use this content. I see some lawsuits from AMD and others coming out over this, possibly even some anti-trust action.

On a different note, why does INTEL have to protect a multi billion dollar industry because they continue to fail to provide consumers with the form of content they want? If they figured out that if they gave people what they wanted, piracy goes way down.

---------- Post added 2011-01-14 at 07:57 AM ----------

I've been researching non-stop since I posted this thread and I'm starting to realize I'm in a little over my head lol. I'm probably also going to have to wait until after taxes so I can spend more to get what I want.
Thank you guys for all of your help and I'll continue to read more on it all.

No problem I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you get. Like i said don't let my paranoia influence you.

AMD is coming out with their new Bulldozer chips sometime this year. They are supposed to be very good. But INTEL is working on Ivy bridge. So really things are going to start to get very competitive later this year.

[slinx]

I have a degree in computer science and write software for a hospital, before you ignore the wall-o-text

If you don't know how to assemble a computer, then don't try your first one by yourself. Your best off either buying a prebuilt machine, or having someone you know put it together for you (or with you so you can learn). I've seen a lot of "experts" screw up brand new computers by doing simple things.. like putting in the wrong motherboard screws, and watching it fry itself when it gets turned on. Just make sure you have someone that knows what you're doing if you are buying separate parts. As to what to get.. depends on your budget. If your gateway is 10 years old i would keep everything there and use it as a back up computer.. to download files you don't trust, music, etc.. i have a junker computer for that. But anyway.. for your gaming experience, you need a fast processor/motherboard, a good video card, and a good amount of RAM.

I would recommend anything 3.0 ghz or higher for the processor
1GB + video card
4G of Ram +.. depending on your operating system.. Windows XP is capped at like 3.5 or something but windows 7 you can get 8 or more i am pretty sure.
I would get a new monitor too, i play on a 22" monitor i got free from work, but dont sit too close like me because it will burn your eyes

you can get fairly cheep parts and/or computers from
www.newegg.com
www.mwave.com (doesn't charge tax)
they are fairly popular and fairly cheap.. and you are probably going to get a cheaper computer online rather than going to best buy, just make sure you have someone double check what you're getting. i spent 500 in parts not including the monitor and i haven't experienced the word.. wait.. what was it.. oh yeah "lag" since.

Good luck

[Gat]

I have a degree in computer science and write software for a hospital, before you ignore the wall-o-text

If you don't know how to assemble a computer, then don't try your first one by yourself. Your best off either buying a prebuilt machine, or having someone you know put it together for you (or with you so you can learn). I've seen a lot of "experts" screw up brand new computers by doing simple things.. like putting in the wrong motherboard screws, and watching it fry itself when it gets turned on. Just make sure you have someone that knows what you're doing if you are buying separate parts. As to what to get.. depends on your budget. If your gateway is 10 years old i would keep everything there and use it as a back up computer.. to download files you don't trust, music, etc.. i have a junker computer for that. But anyway.. for your gaming experience, you need a fast processor/motherboard, a good video card, and a good amount of RAM.

I would recommend anything 3.0 ghz or higher for the processor
1GB + video card
4G of Ram +.. depending on your operating system.. Windows XP is capped at like 3.5 or something but windows 7 you can get 8 or more i am pretty sure.
I would get a new monitor too, i play on a 22" monitor i got free from work, but dont sit too close like me because it will burn your eyes

you can get fairly cheep parts and/or computers from
www.newegg.com
www.mwave.com (doesn't charge tax)
they are fairly popular and fairly cheap.. and you are probably going to get a cheaper computer online rather than going to best buy, just make sure you have someone double check what you're getting. i spent 500 in parts not including the monitor and i haven't experienced the word.. wait.. what was it.. oh yeah "lag" since.

Good luck

Hey, you got to start somewhere. If he get's it prebuilt then he will never have any experience doing so, and would always be considered a first time builder. So best thing to do is just do everything slowly and double check everything before you make a move. All you have to do is read the manual correctly (that the motherboard provides) and you should be fine. Afterall, it's really just putting a few pieces of hardware onto a motherboard, screwing the motherboard into the case, putting your HDD and CD drive into the case and connecting the power supply to it all. Then that's your computer.

[Cilraaz]

If you don't know how to assemble a computer, then don't try your first one by yourself. Your best off either buying a prebuilt machine, or having someone you know put it together for you (or with you so you can learn). I've seen a lot of "experts" screw up brand new computers by doing simple things.. like putting in the wrong motherboard screws, and watching it fry itself when it gets turned on.

Poor advice. If this were good advice, nobody would every build their own systems. Everyone that has built a computer had to build their first one at some point. Today, they're easier than ever to build. Now, a first time builder should definitely research the subject and, if available, spend time with someone who has experience, but outright dismissing building your own system is just bad advice.

I would recommend anything 3.0 ghz or higher for the processor
1GB + video card
4G of Ram +.. depending on your operating system.. Windows XP is capped at like 3.5 or something but windows 7 you can get 8 or more i am pretty sure.
I would get a new monitor too, i play on a 22" monitor i got free from work, but dont sit too close like me because it will burn your eyes

No mention of CPU platform, no mention of video card other than memory size (which is a poor thing to judge from), and a software engineer who doesn't know that WinXP came in both 32-bit and 64-bit (as well as the proper memory cap of each)? Might as well have said "you should get stuff to put in your case".

OP:
The top performance in the CPU field right now is the new Sandy Bridge platform. The "DRM" hype is well overblown. As I said earlier, it's the foundation of a new distribution channel. They're not trying to limit anyone's computer usage. Whether i5 2500K or i7 2600K would depend on your planned usage. Just gaming? Get the i5. Going to be doing video editing, CAD, or something else highly threaded? Get the i7. On more of a budget? Look at the AMD Phenom II x4 line.

For a video card, it really depends on what you are going to use it for. WoW only? A GTX 460 1GB is plenty beefy. Play other games too? You might want to look at a Radeon 6950.

As far as RAM goes, there's typically little need for more than 4GB. If you plan to do video editing or anything else very memory intensive, you might want to hop up to 8GB. In any case, you should be using a 64-bit OS, which effectively removes any memory cap (32-bit can only address ~4GB, which includes addressing memory for video, BIOS, kernel, etc... which usually allows for about 3GB RAM to be usable).

Whether or not to get an SSD is up for debate and would essentially depend on your budget. For data drives, though, your standard options are WD Caviar Black or Samsung Spinpoint F3 drives. Both are good quality, good speed, and well priced.

Your motherboard of choice will highly depend upon your other choices. Do you need USB3? Do you need SATA III? Do you need CrossFire/SLI capability?

Your power supply will also depend on the other parts chosen, as it needs to be strong enough to power them. One important factor to look at besides rated wattage is the amperage available on the +12v rail. Video cards require a certain number of amps to remain stable. If your amperage is too low, it can cause lots of oddities or even card death.

Hopefully this is at least helpful as a start. I try to mention as often as I can in here that building a computer is an intimate event. If you've ever seen Full Metal Jacket, think of the Rifleman's Creed. "This is my computer. There are many like it, but this one is mine." The parts that go into your computer should reflect your wants and needs from that computer, not a random parts list that someone else spit out at you.

[Narn]

You have to start somewhere. Building a computer today is pretty easy actually. I haven't sliced my hands open on shard cases or components in several years. If you are concerned then have a friend who knows how come over and make sure you don't do something stupid. This being said component always have a chance of arriving DOA these days, so it can be hard to figure out exactly what is dead.

You mentioned waiting till tax rebate time. This is probably a good idea. You will either get what you were looking at cheaper or more bang for your buck. If building your own is too stressful, then wait to find a good prebuilt deal. You will get less machine for your dollar, but some people prefer the route of having everything arrive ready to go (usually).

I couldn't agree with Cilraaz more about your computer being your baby. It's why you get so many debates on the subject.

[arcangel1337]

I have a degree in computer science and write software for a hospital, before you ignore the wall-o-text

If you don't know how to assemble a computer, then don't try your first one by yourself. Your best off either buying a prebuilt machine, or having someone you know put it together for you (or with you so you can learn). I've seen a lot of "experts" screw up brand new computers by doing simple things.. like putting in the wrong motherboard screws, and watching it fry itself when it gets turned on. Just make sure you have someone that knows what you're doing if you are buying separate parts. As to what to get.. depends on your budget. If your gateway is 10 years old i would keep everything there and use it as a back up computer.. to download files you don't trust, music, etc.. i have a junker computer for that. But anyway.. for your gaming experience, you need a fast processor/motherboard, a good video card, and a good amount of RAM.

I would recommend anything 3.0 ghz or higher for the processor
1GB + video card
4G of Ram +.. depending on your operating system.. Windows XP is capped at like 3.5 or something but windows 7 you can get 8 or more i am pretty sure.
I would get a new monitor too, i play on a 22" monitor i got free from work, but dont sit too close like me because it will burn your eyes

you can get fairly cheep parts and/or computers from
www.newegg.com
www.mwave.com (doesn't charge tax)
they are fairly popular and fairly cheap.. and you are probably going to get a cheaper computer online rather than going to best buy, just make sure you have someone double check what you're getting. i spent 500 in parts not including the monitor and i haven't experienced the word.. wait.. what was it.. oh yeah "lag" since.

Good luck

I'm going to have to agree with the others on what you said. This is my first time building my own computer. I work on computers for a living though. I know how to piece it together, I just don't know how to get the pieces.
As for the old computer for back up, I will be partitioning off a section of my hard drive for a VM (virtual machine) that I will use for anything I am nervous about and trial and error things. I also have 64 bit Win 7 Ultimate, so I don't need to worry about a memory cap.
I am asking the entire MMO champ community for help in looking for the parts. I'm also talking with my cousin who has 2 degrees in computer science, programming, and his A+. I'm not doing this alone lol. Thank you for your concern and the help

---------- Post added 2011-01-14 at 07:21 PM ----------

OP:
The top performance in the CPU field right now is the new Sandy Bridge platform. The "DRM" hype is well overblown. As I said earlier, it's the foundation of a new distribution channel. They're not trying to limit anyone's computer usage. Whether i5 2500K or i7 2600K would depend on your planned usage. Just gaming? Get the i5. Going to be doing video editing, CAD, or something else highly threaded? Get the i7. On more of a budget? Look at the AMD Phenom II x4 line.

For a video card, it really depends on what you are going to use it for. WoW only? A GTX 460 1GB is plenty beefy. Play other games too? You might want to look at a Radeon 6950.

As far as RAM goes, there's typically little need for more than 4GB. If you plan to do video editing or anything else very memory intensive, you might want to hop up to 8GB. In any case, you should be using a 64-bit OS, which effectively removes any memory cap (32-bit can only address ~4GB, which includes addressing memory for video, BIOS, kernel, etc... which usually allows for about 3GB RAM to be usable).

Whether or not to get an SSD is up for debate and would essentially depend on your budget. For data drives, though, your standard options are WD Caviar Black or Samsung Spinpoint F3 drives. Both are good quality, good speed, and well priced.

Your motherboard of choice will highly depend upon your other choices. Do you need USB3? Do you need SATA III? Do you need CrossFire/SLI capability?

Your power supply will also depend on the other parts chosen, as it needs to be strong enough to power them. One important factor to look at besides rated wattage is the amperage available on the +12v rail. Video cards require a certain number of amps to remain stable. If your amperage is too low, it can cause lots of oddities or even card death.

Hopefully this is at least helpful as a start. I try to mention as often as I can in here that building a computer is an intimate event. If you've ever seen Full Metal Jacket, think of the Rifleman's Creed. "This is my computer. There are many like it, but this one is mine." The parts that go into your computer should reflect your wants and needs from that computer, not a random parts list that someone else spit out at you.

I don't need the top of the line stuff, I just don't like having to sit out of fights like Syndragosa because I get .3 FPS on her (literally). That's just an example.
I will be getting 4 GB for now and maybe up it to 8 when I need it. I'm still trying to keep within a budget and get good parts as well. It's a lot harder than it seems for that very "this is my computer" reason.
As for the video card, I will be playing WoW and DC universe mainly. Anything specific for those? lol

[georgevonfranken]

As for the video card, I will be playing WoW and DC universe mainly. Anything specific for those? lol

460 1gb will do just fine i can run all of my games on the highest with it