Why do Blizz hate melee DPS so much?

[dwaynedu]

I am a raid leader of a 25-man raid group currently working on heroic blackwing descent. (I am a tank myself)
As long as I know, most raid bosses in Cataclysm prefer ranged DPS than melee. Having more ranged DPS will effectively lower the difficulty of encounters.
Melee DPS often need to move around more, find the back of the boss to avoid parry, and in charge of spell interrupts (which was very common in Cata raids). They could do similar DPS as ranged classes on single target, but they just don't stand a chance on massive AoE encounters, either because they can't do enough damage (think of Heroic Maloriak) or the encounter simply does not allow them to AoE (think of Cho'gall or Heroic Conclave). They often suffer more damage and are more likely to die early. (think of Ascendant Council phase 3).

Just simply list the disadvantages melee DPS have against ranged during encounters.
Conclave of Wind - Cyclones near the East Lord, more time to run to the bridge than ranged, not able to AoE adds on West Lord (Heroic)
Al'akir - Not able to DPS the adds in Phase 2 due to aura damage; may have to hit on the face
Halfus Wyrmbreaker - The inferno animation stacks near the melee range, making it harder to dodge
Valiona and Theralion - No specific disadvantages but some of the ranged class could do DPS to both dragon with DoTs
Ascendant Council - Excessive movement during Phase 2, need to suffer from the ice damage beneath the boss or run away to avoid it, lowering DPS
Cho'gall - Not able to AOE the Black ooze due to corruption bar
Magmaw - No specific disadvantages on normal but I heard that there are some on heroic
Omnotron defense system - May be not able to DPS the green oozes if they fixate on melee; may have to hit on the face when the boss is in the green cloud
Maloriak - The most complex interrupt fight ever. And they can't do enough AOE damage on heroic
Atramedes - The sonic circle came out just beneath the boss, making melee harder dodging it.
Chimaeron - No specific disadvantages but they often die faster on phase 2
Nefarian - Not able to DPS Nefarian during Phase 2

It turns out that if you just minimize the number of melee classes, the raid will be easier than using a more balanced group.
The ranged class often have raid utilities (add snares, multi-targeted DPS), move less in an encounter, and are less likely to die. (Maybe they stand close to healers)
This is just not right, Blizz should compensate the melee classes in terms of DPS, to make raid leaders more willing to bring melee DPS to encounters.

[Deleted]

i agree. hope for some changes, the balance of the game atm is completely off lol

[vth99]

i agree with most of what you say. even tho i havent been raiding much the amount of raiding ive done all seems to favour ranged dps based on the damage output. but some melee classes brings important utilities to the raid that deffinently are usefull making the only reason to choose theese classes to your raiding team.
i think the reason blizzard hates melee classes so much is because melee lacked something to do on the bosses except for dps'ing ( think about bosses in icc where melee classes had it way easier than the ranged at certain encounters) so therefore they added a bit too much melee difficulty to the encounters

[enzo]

I am all for what you say mate. Just please, don't make threads with name that's starts with "What does Blizzard hate..." Blizzard does not hate any class and it's really kinda lame to say or think so. Otherwise 100% for this thread.

[Irony]

Its hard to completely balance encounters making Melee just as viable as Range without making the fight a complete Patchwerk fight. That being said, I think you're just whining for the sake of whining.

[JeKv]

Its hard to completely balance encounters making Melee just as viable as Range without making the fight a complete Patchwerk fight. That being said, I think you're just whining for the sake of whining.

They're legitimate concerns. The design bias towards ranged DPS in current raid content is very high. It's a troubling trend and I hope it doesn't continue.

[drtrann]

unfortunately this has consistantly been the state of raids in wow. while at some points it may have been easier to be a melee, overall ranged has always had an easier job/ more valid position in raids. while i do enjoy the challenge of being a melee (ask me to go back to my hunter and i'll kill myself) but i do agree that we are more likely to get recked by a multitude of boss abiities. (whether it be by personal error or the error of another melee near you.

note for chimmy. melee seem to have a hard time getting ranged and multiple melee get hit by his spit because 1 guy is to stupid to move ranged, or the 2 outer melee crunch in to close to the middle guy getting hit and he really has no control anymore.
maloriak: many of the ranged i have played with are oblivious to the frost phase ability that dmgs you and anyone near you and end up just obliterating the other melee.... please guys stop scrubbing and get a debuff watcher if u really need it.

[Abandon]

They're legitimate concerns. The design bias towards ranged DPS in current raid content is very high. It's a troubling trend and I hope it doesn't continue.

It's not just raids, as a healer I've noticed that Melee take far more damage than Ranged in pretty much every instance, too.

[Irony]

They're legitimate concerns. The design bias towards ranged DPS in current raid content is very high. It's a troubling trend and I hope it doesn't continue.

I understand its a concern, but about 3/4 of the "concerns" I feel are him just trying to justify his point through pointless annoyances.

[anywherenotes]

I think blizz doesn't have a good formula for challenging melee.
Let me explain:
1 - a lot of challenges WoW has are related to getting out of 'bad stuff on the floor', which isn't always straight forward to do and keep in melee range of the boss. Ranged can move anywhere and keep in range still (unless they back-pedal)
2 - same issue as #1, but what's complicated is camera maybe obstructed by the boss, whereas for ranged, it won't be.
3 - melee cannot stand in front the boss. Ranged can be on all sides of the boss, therefore it is again easier to find a safe-spot away from 'bad stuff on the floor'.
4 - bosses usually have frontal cone of attack, and sometimes a tail-attack. For ranged it's natural to not get hit with either, as both those attacks aren't usually very long, they are either melee, or about 10 or so yards. Melee has to make sure to keep out of those zones, even as tank may rotate the boss.
5 - 'bomb' - this is when you become a bomb and have to get away from others. At times that is meaningless to ranged, as they are already spread out. Melee has to run away from other melee without running into ranged/healers

There are challenges for ranged, as sometimes only ranged are targeted by some mechanic. However those are specifically ranged-unfriendly fights. The rest of the mechanics mentioned before, exist in most encounters.

[furu]

Maybe because whole WotLK for melee was Follow+Assist tank

[Hellphantine]

It's still important to bring melee in range heavy instances. One so you don't have to share loot between few classes/specs, and also for the buffs they may provide (5% melee crit from cats for instance). Plus by your logic, Blizz hates everyone except moonkins and frost mages for the magmaw encounter. Yes bringing one or two is advantageous, but that doesn't mean that Blizz is trying to force us to bring those players and nothing else.

[s_bushido]

They're legitimate concerns. The design bias towards ranged DPS in current raid content is very high. It's a troubling trend and I hope it doesn't continue.

Melee has taken more splash damage than ranged since players first stepped into MC. I'm not sure why you think this is a new trend, other than being able to rely on healers to brute-force you through most things in WotLK and not having to worry about it.

Ranged have to stay still to maximize their dps. Melee are more flexible with the combination of auto-attack and instant abilities.

[Hellphantine]

I think blizz doesn't have a good formula for challenging melee.
Let me explain:
1 - a lot of challenges WoW has are related to getting out of 'bad stuff on the floor', which isn't always straight forward to do and keep in melee range of the boss. Ranged can move anywhere and keep in range still (unless they back-pedal)
2 - same issue as #1, but what's complicated is camera maybe obstructed by the boss, whereas for ranged, it won't be.
3 - melee cannot stand in front the boss. Ranged can be on all sides of the boss, therefore it is again easier to find a safe-spot away from 'bad stuff on the floor'.
4 - bosses usually have frontal cone of attack, and sometimes a tail-attack. For ranged it's natural to not get hit with either, as both those attacks aren't usually very long, they are either melee, or about 10 or so yards. Melee has to make sure to keep out of those zones, even as tank may rotate the boss.
5 - 'bomb' - this is when you become a bomb and have to get away from others. At times that is meaningless to ranged, as they are already spread out. Melee has to run away from other melee without running into ranged/healers

There are challenges for ranged, as sometimes only ranged are targeted by some mechanic. However those are specifically ranged-unfriendly fights. The rest of the mechanics mentioned before, exist in most encounters.

There's a reason DBM gives a warning in advance for bomb effects. So you can get away from anyone, no matter what you play. And as you said in part two ranged can't just move all around the boss. The same applies to us when there are cleaves, cones and tail swipes. Frontal cones can range up to 30 yards. It's important for everyone to be out of the way. Play a different spec or class if you find it too hard. I find myself dying more as moonkin than as a kitty. There are plenty of boss skills that clear the heads of the melee group and only affect range too.

[Asotcha]

They're legitimate concerns. The design bias towards ranged DPS in current raid content is very high. It's a troubling trend and I hope it doesn't continue.

yeah exactly---a guildie said he saw a note that paragone wrote in apology to its melee section--even They had to leave some outside raids in favor of ranged alts and stuff--and if freakin Paragon had to... my poor lil rogue is totally boned this expac >.<

[Xylense]

We are compensated by the fun time every so often.

Yogg Saron portals as melee, the discs in Malygos, fun stuff like that.

[Draknalor186]

take off the scribt from all bosses tbh.. would make it so much more fun =O whats more fun then beating on something for 10 min that dosent fight back =DD?

[Tore]

Wrath greatly favored melee DPS throughout its course of raiding. Now it's ranged's day.

Doesn't really matter except for ePeen on meters. If anything it means you have less competition for loot as long as you find a guild that wants a melee for their raid spot.

[cFortyfive]

Wrath greatly favored melee DPS throughout its course of raiding. Now it's ranged's day.

Doesn't really matter except for ePeen on meters. If anything it means you have less competition for loot as long as you find a guild that wants a melee for their raid spot.

Which part of wrath exactly "favored" melee ? I mean favored in the sense of a melee really being better than a ranged ? I don't exactly remember that occasion tbh. And saying that your damage doesn't matter and is just for "epeen" measurement is just ridiculous, some people just like to be able to pull their weight instead of being carried, but I like how most people don't understand that.

[Tore]

Which part of wrath exactly "favored" melee ? I mean favored in the sense of a melee really being better than a ranged ? I don't exactly remember that occasion tbh. And saying that your damage doesn't matter and is just for "epeen" measurement is just ridiculous, some people just like to be able to pull their weight instead of being carried, but I like how most people don't understand that.

Did I say be carried? Just because a boss is out of melee range doesn't mean melee is entirely worthless. It's a mentality like yours that leads people to overreact. Obviously stacking melee isn't beneficial either. Part of intelligent raiding is group comping, something that many of us remember from BC. If a fight calls for more melee, you bring in more melee. If a fight calls for more range, you bring in more ranged. If a fight requires more healers, you bring in more healers. More often than naught, however, an even group spread is entirely suffficient without having to "carry the melee."

Damage does matter. Damage compared to the ranged does not. They get more damage time, but a fight that leaves melee unable to attack compensates for this with lower boss heath/lengthened enrage timers/more complex mechanics for ranged to avoid. This is abundantly clear on a fight like Atramedes. Also let it be remembered that the only fight to have really required sitting melee has been H-Ascendant Council, and not even for DPS reasons. Melee were simply unable to take the Chain Lightning damage until tweaked.

Which parts of Wrath favored Melee? Here's a list. Let's start from Ulduar Hardmodes and Heroic Modes onlysince Naxx was a joke and I can hardly remember what the fights were like on normal.

Ulduar:
- Ignis: Melee just sat on the boss the whole time with no further responsibility, as opposed to at least one ranged requiring to switch off to an add in the early days.
-Razorscale: Pretty even. Melee switched between adds quicker, ranged could follow kiting with less movement.
- XT002: Out of melee range for a few seconds to drop debuffs, buff ranged had the responsibility of dealing with scrap adds during the first heart phase AND sparks, losing boss uptime and rampup time.
- Kologarn: Melee did absolutely nothing except hit the boss. melee were not targeted with eye beams nor did they have to switch to aoe the rock elementals.
- Auriaya: Melee sat on the boss. Adds were offtanked and not dealt damage. Ranged AoE'd down the swarm.
- Hodir: Melee sat in light beams that the tank brought the boss to and sat on the boss. ranged broke ice blocks.
- Thorim: Arena was eaiser for ranged to AoE. Hallway was easier for melee to move, interrupt, and DPS while running. Once Thorim was active melee sat on the boss (in 2 piles) and only moved for lightning. Ranged moved for lighting as well as the Blizzard put by whats-her-face.
- Freya: Pretty even. Ranged had it easier with Trees and the little adds. Melee had it easier with the 3 adds, and the last phase.
- Mimiron: Ranged dominated. Raged didn;t have to handle adds or novas and had an easier time finding room when the room was filled with fire.
- Vezax: Melee dominated. Sat on the boss and had an interrupt rotation which for all melee DPS were off the GCD and did not interrupt damage dealing..No Shadow Crashes, no puddles, no anything really. Ranged had the 0 mana regen.
- Yogg: People are gonna argue this, but pretty even. Melee attacked tentacles between brain phases, were responsible for bringing the shield down in a timely manner, and had to bring down adds in the final phase without having to worry about insanity. Ranged got moreuptime on the Crushers, bu the last phase was all on them and the wipes generally occured due to ranged not having a sanity well.

TOC:
- NRB: Ranged oriented. Many melee knockbacks and the 3rd guy's charge could be all the way on the other side of the room if someone was being an idiot.
- Jaraxxus: Fairly even. Melee had run time to switch to portals and volcanoes, but ranged had to sacrfice boss uptime to kill the adds. Melee sat on the boss otherwise. Both melee and ranged were equally boned by the fire trail.
- Faction Champs: More deadly to ranged due to the aggro tables considering armor values, but a terrible fight for everyone overall.
- Twin Valks: Comparisons don't really matter o this one. Door strat wade it pointless for everyone. Mages dont count due to that OP talent + a disc priest.
- Anub: Terrible for ranged due to the mana constraints involved with the AoE intensive 3rd phase. Melee sat on Anub and used whatever AoE and self-heals they had. Unholy DKs were particularly dominant on this fight.

Icecrown Citadel:
- Marrowgar: Ranged oriented due to ability to continue attacking during BOOOONE STTOOORRM. But within a few months the melee could chase after the Heroic Bone Storm anyway.
- Lady Deathwhisper: Adds adds and more adds. Not particularly difficult for anyone. Melee had it slightly worse off in the 2nd phase since you couldn't tell which melee was being targetting by a ghost.
- Lootship: doesn't even count, but melee got to beat on an immobile target for 6 seconds or more if you were bad.
- Saurfang: Complete melee fight. Melee did absolutely nothing except try to world rank.
- Festergut: Melee sat on boss and had to move between legs (could still DPS while moving). Ranged got vomit debuff which made them unable to attack for the duration. Ranged (besides hunters) could not attack when running from Malleable Goo.
- Rotface: Melee sat on boss, did not have to worry about tank's kite path and or the room filling with goo.
- Putriced: Completely ranged oriented fight. Lots of running for melee.
- Blood Princes: Melee had to run and gain a stacking debuff, but ranged had to deal with the bombs and the fire orbs. Take your pick.
- Blood-Queen Lana'thel: Slightly in ranged's favor due to ability to keep dots and other ranged abilities ticking during the short airphase.
- Valithria Dreamwalker: Stupid for all DPS. Ranged had to worry about worms, but melee had more running. Overall better for Ranged.
- Sindragosa: Complete melee oriented fight. Sindragosa's ranged debuff made DPS nearly impossible for most casters. Ranged were at greatest risk of wiping the group in P3 with their explosion from the debuff.
- Lich King: Melee got cleave time on the adds in P1. Ranged got to sit still for Valks in P2. Melee got to switch faster in all transitions. Melee generally had higher burst in Phase 3. Ranged had a damage advantage during the Frostmourne Room Dance. Ranged had to deal with not enough ramp up time between Frostmourne Dance phases. In general melee were coming out World Top due to cleave damage on P1 adds, transition spirits, Spirits + LK cleaves, Valk + LK cleaves, and just overall damage.

Beyond encounter design, a quick look at WoL pre-4.0 changes shows melee dominating most fights, especially standstill DPS tests. Melee was just tuned higher in Wrath on top of encounter design.