Difficulty is not the problem, LFD is.

[Nacly]

Guilds are nice. Just saying.

[Himek]

The only ACTUAL problem with the LFD system is how kicking players is handled.

Player A, B and C are from the same guild.
Player D is from <this> server and is the tank.
Player E is from <that> server and is a low performing DPS.

Player A, B and C kick player E to bring in a guildie who can do better dps.

Player A, B and C also notice a tank has come online. Without warning, Player D is now removed from the group.

Player D and E are now saved to that dungeon.

Tank was kicked for no reason that was apparent and player E needed gear, which is why he/she was in there.

LFD is not flawed - Kicking someone because numbers are not to your liking is bad, especially when the DPS has to wait 40 minutes to get into a dungeon and when you kick a tank because a guildie wants in, well... I have no words. This is where kicking someone for a reason other than performance makes the LFD system bad.

Everyone who said it's the players' fault, I agree. People need to be respectful of EVERYONE's time, not just their own. But that will not happen when you have a game where people are ages 7-90 and from all walks off life and manners.

People who says it's Blizzard's fault - How would you like them to fix it? There are no viable solutions in this thread. You want them to create AI tanks that are perfect in every aspect and who do 50K dps to make up for and carry everyone through?

Face it: These dungeons are HARD. People are a LOT less apt to deal with under performers. Learn to play better! I guarantee there is a way to squeeze out some extra numbers, you just have to take the time to learn how to do that while also performing well.

As for me, I was the tank in said example above. It was Shadowfang Keep Heroic. Kicked for no reason. Was I mad? Nope, as a tank I can requeue instantly. Locked out? Nope! Random dungeon fnder put me right back in there with a guild group.

[Alfador]

Might not be the best idea, but one option could be to check the account creation date. Someone who created their account three weeks ago isn't likely to know as much as someone who played for 6 years. Then again, players can create new accounts, so that's not really optimal.

Ideal solution is to only use the LFD tool to find the dungeon, and not the people. Ie, get a group of friends together. If someone plays like a moron, atleast it's a moron you like (I assume, if you call him friend).

Account creation date has no place in this process whatsoever. I mean you did recognize some of the shortfall in this yourself and I'm glad to see that but seriously, the amount of "new" people I've seen outperform the shit out of people who have been playing for years is just astronomical.

[Deleted]

So queues went from <10 minutes to 40 in the first 2 weeks? And what about tanks that want dps gear?

most tanks level as dps and will have a fair amount of dps items when they start tanking... honestly, Its very fast to gear up as a plate... lots of drops and a lot of rep gear + crafts... I would be surprised if after (lets say) 10 HCs some one would not be full geared as tanks and dps...

[CT001]

LFD was the worst thing blizzard has ever done. It has traded community for a gear grind; and considering at its roots a MMO is about community, not gear, this was a very poor trade.

Prior to LFD servers had a vibrant and well used LFG channel. Douchebags/ninjas/griefers quickly became well known (and were avoided), and good players became well known too. Your reputation meant something, and it was worth it to be nice/try hard because of that. Many guilds were formed and much guild recruitment occured out of these random associations. Prior to LFD everyone had long lists of people on their friends list (and ignore list) which they could group with.

This is no longer the case. Now you join LFD not because you want to run the dungeon, nor do you like the people you're running with. You'll never see, talk, or interact with them ever again. No one says a word unless it is to bitch. Poor or intentionally douchy players are not reprimanded, cannot be avoided, and cannot be dealt with, so they just get recycled over and over and over again. And should you (by a miraculous chance) find some people you click and work well with. That 1 diamond in the rough. Guess what, you'll never see them again. You can't group with them again, you can't invite them to your guild, you won't even talk to them ever again. LFD has done nothing but destroy the WoW community, and all the easy epics in the world won't make up for what was lost.

[Deleted]

LFD was the worst thing blizzard has ever done. It has traded community for a gear grind; and considering at its roots a MMO is about community, not gear, this was a very poor trade.

Prior to LFD servers had a vibrant and well used LFG channel. Douchebags/ninjas/griefers quickly became well known (and were avoided), and good players became well known too. Your reputation meant something, and it was worth it to be nice/try hard because of that. Many guilds were formed and much guild recruitment occured out of these random associations. Prior to LFD everyone had long lists of people on their friends list (and ignore list) which they could group with.

This is no longer the case. Now you join LFD not because you want to run the dungeon, nor do you like the people you're running with. You'll never see, talk, or interact with them ever again. No one says a word unless it is to bitch. Poor or intentionally douchy players are not reprimanded, cannot be avoided, and cannot be dealt with, so they just get recycled over and over and over again. And should you (by a miraculous chance) find some people you click and work well with. That 1 diamond in the rough. Guess what, you'll never see them again. You can't group with them again, you can't invite them to your guild, you won't even talk to them ever again. LFD has done nothing but destroy the WoW community, and all the easy epics in the world won't make up for what was lost.

LF Tank Heroic shattered halls last spot...

2 hours later

LF tank heroic Shattered halls last spot please!!!

[drakonblayde]

Just add in a dungeon rating, like an arena rating. Complete a dungeon successfully? rating goes up. Leave the group early? Rating goes down. Wipe? Rating goes down. Kill a boss? Rating goes up.

Group people of similar ratings together. That would keep the baddies playing with each other, and encourage folks who are just lazy to play better in order to get better groups.

[Nitrax]

"Difficulty is not the problem, LFD is. "

Maybe the problem is not enough tanks. This game didn't require LFD at one time. Why think of it as a necessity instead of an added feature? Teach a man how to fish and he'll ask for a free fishing pole.

You mean back in the times when I was looking the WHOLE WEEK for a group to UBRS because i was a paladin and they could only "off-heal"?

Or in TBC when I had to wait until raids ended at 23:00 to get a healer for a group?

[Hunaxor]

I would be happy if they introduced some automatic skill rating you get after every completed dungeon. You would be able to really tell if you want that person in your group or raid (i mean for example /trade hc group). On the other hand this system cant work in LFD. It will create a situation where a)bad people will go down and down in the barrel resulting in people quiting (if you would be grouped with similarly skilled people) or b)Good people will have to carry bad ones (if the system groups you with some bad players to compensate for your awesomeness).

As a tank, I run with my guild. When I lfd I know I can get bottom of the barrel, its just the nature of the tool.

I think people need to really think about what is LFD. It is a tool for getting a group together without even trying. It is not "click here and you will get your points in 30 minutes".

[CT001]

LF Tank Heroic shattered halls last spot...

2 hours later

LF tank heroic Shattered halls last spot please!!!

Then perhaps you were one of those players that no one wanted to group with? I had no issues finding groups (as dps) prior to LFD. I wait much longer now than I ever did before. The people who like the LFD are the very ones who could not find groups without it, aka the anti-social and/or incompetent. Forcing good players to play with poor players by bribing them with VP does not fix the underlying problem.

[Alfador]

Then perhaps you were one of those players that no one wanted to group with? I had no issues finding groups (as dps) prior to LFD. I wait much longer now than I ever did before. The people who like the LFD are the very ones who could not find groups without it, aka the anti-social and/or incompetent. Forcing good players to play with poor players by bribing them with VP does not fix the underlying problem.

I've got news for you. You may have been lucky, but finding tanks and healers for dungeons pre-LFD was just as much of a hell as it is now, perhaps more. Some servers weren't so bad but others were far worse. Oh, and good luck filling a spot of an in-progress instance if someone dropped back then, that was just hilariously sad.

[Xzan]

Well the queues are pretty bad as they are. Adding another filtering would probably doom it completely I can imagine.

In my experience I can only say that the problem is not new players not knowing how to handle this or that dungeon. I leveled to 85 the second day after release along with a pala friend. He went holy the moment he dinged 85 and I stayed enhancement. We did some normal dungeons and after changing some weaker pieces of our gear we jumped into heroics.
It was still just a day after release. Only the nolifers that took vacation to level up were at 85 at that point.
Surprisingly, any group we got, there was not a single baddie. None of us knew what are the heroics like and what does this or that boss do (and some of the bosses have had their hit points nerfed, I remember some that have 3-4m today had 6m the frist time we did them). Anyway, the people I had the pleasure of doing heroics with at that time all were able to use their class, communicate and execute a plan we agreed on trying after a wipe. And also none of them left a group after a wipe as you see ever so often today.

Last week I was doing Blackrock Caverns with a guildie healer and 3 pugs. We had to go through 3 tanks and 4 dps just trying to down Corla, Herald of Twilight. I took the time to explain every one of them how to deal with the stacks. When to move in, when to move out. Asked them to put the mob in their focus bar so they can see easily when's a good time to step away... I was always insured by them that they "know" what to do now and then failed miserably and left the group immediately.
Then we managed to get to Steelbender and of course the tank had no idea what to do and before I could explain he's supposed to move in and out, he would just leave instead right after the wipe - why learn how to play if you can just leave, right?

TL;DR: The problem is people are bad and some can't even be educated to make them less bad.

[Hraklea]

You can't do anything when players don't want to learn how to play their roles properly.

In my opinion, the leveling should be harder. A mage that can't keep polymorph up should NOT be at level 85, i.e.
"Experience" should not only represent the character experience, it should represent the experience of the player him/herself.

I'm leveling a Resto Shaman and until now, there isn't a single instance where I can't just Earth Shield the tank and go to the bathroom. They require nothing but one button from me (two, if a DPS get hit by something) - I don't even need to drop totems. Then I'll get 85 in the next few weeks and the heroics will be waaaaaaaay harder than 1~2 button faceroll. Then I'll make mistakes (some stupid, as I'm new to shamans) until I learn how to handle it, and people will get mad at me and will create threads like this one.

TL;DR: WoW's learning curve sucks.

[Swiftzy]

A very easy & basic system would indeed be to have players, at the end of each dungeon/heroic; Rate each player of the group from 1-10. That way, if you're a prick in the chat, you get rated as if you suck, as you should be rated. If you're a very good & mature player, you get rated accordingly, often with a 4 or 5 i'd believe. Abuses? There would be no abuses, not on a general plane.

[spectrefax]

Alright, all the bullshit and smart ass comments aside, there needs to be something done.

I give two shits if LFD falls to pieces and mass grieving ensues. However, if you don't want the game nerfed into fkn oblivion or something equally shitty, then come up with something better than 'bhaha you scrub this dumb you're dumb everyones dumb'. Because you know what blizz is hearing? MASSIVE...ENDLESS complaints about grouping through the LFD system which is the most used tool in the game for grouping and its not even close.

3 expansions worth of content and years of playing should show you all one thing....those who whine the loudest get the results. If solid ideas aren't implemented to improve LFD they WILL put it back to WotlK style and easy mode everything and add 30% buffs to everything. Which would suck because I would definitely have to find another game to play.

You guys fail to realize how customizable their interface is, through achievements you can see they are able to track EVERYTHING...put a tiny bit of thought into how they could implement different criteria into the LFD system aside from simply DPS, TANK, HEALS and you'll see the possibilities are endless.

[Korru]

in the end there will be nerfs

[Azranas]

LFD is only a tool for finding a group, you DO NOT have to use it to get a group. Ask in trade to see if anyone is making a group (you'd be suprised). Ask guildmembers and friends. Do what people did before LFD tool, be social. Then that tank who grouped with might just ask you if you want to join him next time.

[spectrefax]

LFD was the worst thing blizzard has ever done. It has traded community for a gear grind; and considering at its roots a MMO is about community, not gear, this was a very poor trade.

Prior to LFD servers had a vibrant and well used LFG channel. Douchebags/ninjas/griefers quickly became well known (and were avoided), and good players became well known too. Your reputation meant something, and it was worth it to be nice/try hard because of that. Many guilds were formed and much guild recruitment occured out of these random associations. Prior to LFD everyone had long lists of people on their friends list (and ignore list) which they could group with.

This is no longer the case. Now you join LFD not because you want to run the dungeon, nor do you like the people you're running with. You'll never see, talk, or interact with them ever again. No one says a word unless it is to bitch. Poor or intentionally douchy players are not reprimanded, cannot be avoided, and cannot be dealt with, so they just get recycled over and over and over again. And should you (by a miraculous chance) find some people you click and work well with. That 1 diamond in the rough. Guess what, you'll never see them again. You can't group with them again, you can't invite them to your guild, you won't even talk to them ever again. LFD has done nothing but destroy the WoW community, and all the easy epics in the world won't make up for what was lost.

I agree 100%. If only there were a way to combine the community aspects to the LFD system. Because LFD is so insanely successful they will never remove it.

[Knirps]

Alright, all the bullshit and smart ass comments aside, there needs to be something done.

I give two shits if LFD falls to pieces and mass grieving ensues. However, if you don't want the game nerfed into fkn oblivion or something equally shitty, then come up with something better than 'bhaha you scrub this dumb you're dumb everyones dumb'. Because you know what blizz is hearing? MASSIVE...ENDLESS complaints about grouping through the LFD system which is the most used tool in the game for grouping and its not even close.

3 expansions worth of content and years of playing should show you all one thing....those who whine the loudest get the results. If solid ideas aren't implemented to improve LFD they WILL put it back to WotlK style and easy mode everything and add 30% buffs to everything. Which would suck because I would definitely have to find another game to play.

You guys fail to realize how customizable their interface is, through achievements you can see they are able to track EVERYTHING...put a tiny bit of thought into how they could implement different criteria into the LFD system aside from simply DPS, TANK, HEALS and you'll see the possibilities are endless.

lawllawllawl...

First off, nothing 'needs' to be done because you say it does.

Second, what world do you come from that customization of pictures means something has a new-age AI capable of reading minds? I can paint anything I want in MSPaint, that doesn't mean it's going to magically answer a question I ask it correctly and then massage my feet.

Third, possibilities are endless. The probability of those things happening or people having the technology to properly implement them...no, not quite endless.

Telling you or anyone else that people are the problem and not the game is not BS or smart ass, it's truth. YOU are the people that are going to get everything nerfbatted to oblivion and faceroll in greens. YOU are the people who make 30 threads a minute saying the same thing over and over. It's like complaining about LoS in Arena and getting everyone's damage nerfed by 12%. They aren't going to destroy walls and recreate the game for you.

Don't like LFD? Don't use it. End of story. Stop being bad, get unblacklisted by your realm, and make some friends.

[SurrealNight]

It would help if they provided more incentive for quality players or better geared players in LFD. I'm i346+ in Tanking and DPS set so there is really no use for me now to do random heroics. I'll wait for to do my 1 VP run with guild member only group so I can get the orbs to craft plate gear for the rest of them and not have to put up with vote kicking through 3 groups of horrible players to get those couple DPS that wont stand in the fire...

One thing I'd like to see is them trying to match people up from the same server when ever possible. Would help the more people from your own personal "community" were there. People tend to put in a little more effort, would also help people find or recruit for guilds.

Maybe if they added some more uses for JP or something I'd put up with pure random LFD but until then I'll just run with guild members or level up another 85.