Bane of Havoc

[blablablablablabla]

My point is more that he didn't deliver three quarters of a million damage in 3 global cooldowns.

Since the arguments here seem to go off base all the time let me see if i can get to the core of your argument here. Basiclly your argument is this, affliction and shadow preists are hard on mutli target fights and destruction is not so destruction needs a nerf even tho they are not close to doing more damage then the two previosu mentioned specs?

[andromalia]

My point is more that he didn't deliver three quarters of a million damage in 3 global cooldowns.

Here's an easy solution for you. The few times that you do actually *play* the spec you can recast it at 1 minute. Nothing is stopping you from doing that. Your problem is solved.

[Shadowstrike]

Yes.. Soul Swap isn't op while bane is.. dear me...

Bane of havoc simply increases your damage by 15%, even if it is 1 GCD.

Soul swap transfers 3 dots, one of which is corruption. When you have 2x corruption ticking it means that automatically you have doubled the chance to proc nightfall (actually, it's tripled if you have the glyph as well) and the chance to proc decimate. Also with a simple SB or drain-life mousover macro you can easily refresh that corruption with agony still ticking towards its full dps. it needs more skill ofc but i believe it can outDPS bane.

[Jenerena]

First of all, you put you qualifications on the line by actually braging about being ranked as demo on a fight.

Yea, cos being ranked as demo doesn't make you a' serious' player...

/sarcasm

[Xorn]

Because as Affliction to do that takes a lot of effort in terms of not just flicking Soul Swap between two targets with great frequency, but doing so while one target is flying around the area and you have meteors to dodge and a debuff to avoid killing people with.

---------- Post added 2011-01-27 at 07:47 PM ----------


No, he was beaten by a SPriest who was working his ass off.

I'm sorry, but are you implying that Destro DOESN'T have to worry about the same fight mechanics affliction does? I fail to see the point of this argument.

[ynkesfan2003]

I'm sorry, but are you implying that Destro DOESN'T have to worry about the same fight mechanics affliction does? I fail to see the point of this argument.

He's saying that affliction's mechanic for effectively increasing dps to maximum levels on seperate target requires WAAAAAAAAAY more effort then simply tabbing to the off target and casting one spell.

The only problem I have with BoH (after some thought about it, my earlier posts don't reflect this) is that it, by it's nature, unbalances destro locks. It's the same reason ISF was such a god awful buff in the first place. It has nothing to do with how much damage it's capable of, rather that it has the potential to be responsible for 15% of a destruction locks overall damage (I said potential, I realize in practice it's lower). Obviously 15% isn't the problem, the problem is that BoH must be applied to a seperate target to be useful. This means that Destro locks become either broken in fights involving 2 targets (by doing 15% more damage than they should), or broken in fights with only one target (by doing 15% less damage than they are capable of). The only way to balance this is to give EVERY other dps class a simlar mechanic for 2+ target situations, which is when you start to see class homogenization.

[blablablablablabla]

Yea, cos being ranked as demo doesn't make you a' serious' player...

/sarcasm

What? Im not sure which side you are leaning down on but no, i dont think thats anything all that special, im ranked on 5 fights regardles of spec and class, and with two different classes, lock and mage.

---------- Post added 2011-01-28 at 12:02 AM ----------

He's saying that affliction's mechanic for effectively increasing dps to maximum levels on seperate target requires WAAAAAAAAAY more effort then simply tabbing to the off target and casting one spell.

The only problem I have with BoH (after some thought about it, my earlier posts don't reflect this) is that it, by it's nature, unbalances destro locks. It's the same reason ISF was such a god awful buff in the first place. It has nothing to do with how much damage it's capable of, rather that it has the potential to be responsible for 15% of a destruction locks overall damage (I said potential, I realize in practice it's lower). Obviously 15% isn't the problem, the problem is that BoH must be applied to a seperate target to be useful. This means that Destro locks become either broken in fights involving 2 targets (by doing 15% more damage than they should), or broken in fights with only one target (by doing 15% less damage than they are capable of). The only way to balance this is to give EVERY other dps class a simlar mechanic for 2+ target situations, which is when you start to see class homogenization.

But this is not the case, destro is doing fine in singel target fights, if you look at WOL, and its not overpowerd in multi target fights.

[ynkesfan2003]

What? Im not sure which side you are leaning down on but no, i dont think thats anything all that special, im ranked on 5 fights regardles of spec and class, and with two different classes, lock and mage.

---------- Post added 2011-01-28 at 12:02 AM ----------



But this is not the case, destro is doing fine in singel target fights, if you look at WOL, and its not overpowerd in multi target fights.

Sure it's in a good place now, this is one of those big picture things though. Down the road Destro locks will be OP and this spell will only serve to exacerbate it or they will be broken and this spell will work to cover it up. this is due to the nature of the spell, which goes a bit deeper than the logs and even what current numbers are telling you because, guess what, numbers change. "Remember, Remember, the 12% nerf of November."

[Lomak]

Sure it's in a good place now, this is one of those big picture things though. Down the road Destro locks will be OP and this spell will only serve to exacerbate it or they will be broken and this spell will work to cover it up. this is due to the nature of the spell, which goes a bit deeper than the logs and even what current numbers are telling you because, guess what, numbers change. "Remember, Remember, the 12% nerf of November."

Let's not pretend we know the future, it only makes us look silly.

[blablablablablabla]

Sure it's in a good place now, this is one of those big picture things though. Down the road Destro locks will be OP and this spell will only serve to exacerbate it or they will be broken and this spell will work to cover it up. this is due to the nature of the spell, which goes a bit deeper than the logs and even what current numbers are telling you because, guess what, numbers change. "Remember, Remember, the 12% nerf of November."

And in the future mages might become overpowerd, should they nerf them now? The ability to dot two targets will make keep both shadow priests and affliction lock on pair or over us and on fights where the mobs are in cleaving range it will be dks, warriors and rogues as well. Affliction locks and shadow priests do performe better when there is two or more targets to dot and are still viable on singel target.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Here are my opinions on the discussion at hand:

Discussing DPET for BoH is stupid. Technically, the DPET can be calculated the same way as other spells, but it is flawed too do so in an attempt to calculate its potential from fight to fight. BoH DPET varies by stupidly-retarded amounts from fight to fight, Incinerate does not. Now if you're talking about a single specific fight, I think it's fine.

Soul Swap's damage increase is worse on a two-target fight because you can multi-DoT without it. Soul Swap saves you a GCD every 30 seconds when used ideally (not clipping your second BoA) and gives you like 15k damage on top of that. Assuming you do 20k DPS, you're getting ~90k damage every minute fro Soul Swap, or ~450k over 5 minutes. Bane of Havoc costs you 30k initially, would yield 900k in return, for a gain of 870k.

I don't think BoH unbalances Destruction at all, I think more along the lines that Soul Swap is just lacking. The damage BoH contributes is in no way unbalancing. To suggest that we'll be OP on 2-target fights or UP on single target fights is to suggest that other classes lack any kind of multi-target damage. Sure, BoH is kinda mindless, but it's the first Caster-cleave, so I think we're doing OK on the level of having to pay attention.

[Seezer]

Because as Affliction to do that takes a lot of effort in terms of not just flicking Soul Swap between two targets with great frequency, but doing so while one target is flying around the area and you have meteors to dodge and a debuff to avoid killing people with.

---------- Post added 2011-01-27 at 07:47 PM ----------


No, he was beaten by a SPriest who was working his ass off.

And the warlock wasn't?

[Deleted]

Warlocks crying for nerfs to their own class makes me a sad panda...
The main problem with this whole discussion is that if we follow jess logic then sub rogues should be top of the ranks and fury or mage bottom, simply based on the assumption that less easy should automatically equal OP and vice versa...in jess world more button pushing = skill...
Jess let it be...bane of havoc is fine...

[Jalynfein]

Well am I wrong with saying it's a Bane spell so it's not always perfect on alll those bosses. When you need to burn down somethign it's better to get that down faster withusing a damage bane instead on that target than being dps meter hungry.

[Jessicka]

And the warlock wasn't?

If you can to follow two targets, one of which is being kited to avoid void zones, the other flying randomly around the zone, while maintaining 3+ timers on each while still engaging in the other meteor and unleashed magic mechanics correctly, and find that just as easy as you would just following one of those two, then you are an outstanding individual. I personally find that really quite hard and have huge respect for those who do do it so effectively.

[Deleted]

If you can to follow two targets, one of which is being kited to avoid void zones, the other flying randomly around the zone, while maintaining 3+ timers on each while still engaging in the other meteor and unleashed magic mechanics correctly, and find that just as easy as you would just following one of those two, then you are an outstanding individual. I personally find that really quite hard and have huge respect for those who do do it so effectively.

so... you want to nerf an ability that allows such a scenario to be tolerable, into one that makes only outstanding people able to do it?

an ability that at the moment is NOT overpowered.

[Jessicka]

Here's an easy solution for you. The few times that you do actually *play* the spec you can recast it at 1 minute. Nothing is stopping you from doing that. Your problem is solved.

Don't get me wrong, just because I think something is overpowered and a bit abusive it isn't going to stop me using it (unless it's excessively complicated and annoying to do). The thing with Theralion's Mirror and Meta seems dumb and abusive, and adds another very good argument to change Demonology's Mastery to prevent it turning the spec into a rediculous See-Saw later in the expansion. Until that happens though, I will gladly set out to get the most out of it.