[ELE] Spell Power/ Haste / Crit Procs

[Dtere1]

There are currently a few procs in the game from enchants and trinkets that I would like to talk about.

Trinket:
Equip: Chance to increase spell power / haste / crit by XXXX amount.
On Use: Use trinket to increase spell power / haste / crit by XXXX amount.
Equip: Stacking buff that works off of DOTS, increases spell power / haste / crit by XX amount per stack.
On Use: Takes all of your stacks of the trinket and converts it into haste / crit / spell power for a short time.

Weapon Enchant:
Power Torrent - Chance to increase spell power by XXX amount.
Hurricane - Chance to increase haste by XXX amount.

When is it most beneficial to drop the fire elemental totem based on all of these procs? Does haste effect the fire elemental totem at all? Does haste effect searing totem? Should an elemental shaman be refreshing flame shock or searing totem just because a trinket or weapon enchant procs?

I normally try to drop fire elemental totem based on one of the trinket spell power procs, because they are substantially greater than others. Is there an add-on that can track when it is best to drop fire elemental totem based on trinket spell power procs?

Also from looking at ICDs of trinkets, it looks like PVE players should always go with EQUIP trinkets that have a chance to proc, which is mainly why i'm ignoring the 'on use' trinkets i listed above.

[windfurybot]

When you drop fire elemental totem, it captures your stats at the time for the duration of the totem's life. So the best time to do it is while you're haste/spell power buffed. If you lust early in the fight, drop it during BL, depending on the cd's of your trinket/procs/etc you'll wait til those proc during bloodlust.

If you're not lusting til the end and you want to drop fire ele early, use it after you elemental mastery/bloodfury/berserking/etc with trinket/weapon proc'd. Basically your haste/spellpower/crit? all give fire ele benefit, so drop it when you have the most buffs up.

As to searing/flame shock i believe they're recalculated before each tick of damage, so they'll automatically get buffed during procs and then revert afterwards, so no need to refresh because you got a proc. Not sure how magma totem works, but we dont use it as often, so not sure if it's worth trying to maximize it's dps.

Feel free to correct me if i've misspoken on anything, but pretty sure that's how the mechanics work.

As to EQUIP trinkets, I prefer them because the cd is never wasted since it procs automatically, however on use can be helpful for timing with other cooldowns like racials/elemental mastery/etc. If you have a build-up period like a stacking buff (gale of shadows trinket), or want to wait til the boss gets in position/debuffed, on use are good. with weapon/EQUIP procs, they tend to go off the first 1-3 spells you cast, so they can be wasted early if you're waiting to go full out dps. Instead stacking all your stuff/potion/trinket use in places you need can be better. Or in a period you have to burn down adds fast or something, you can save the proc for the moment you need it.

[Deleted]

actually i'm pretty sure FE and searing do not scale with haste.
They only scale with SP and ...hit it seems. Searing updates for every bolt, so no need to recast him on SP/int proc.
Fire Elemental does not- good to use him when u get a SP/Int proc and it will keep the bonus for the 2 full mins duration
Other than that seems like searing is using spell hit, but FE uses both spell and melee hit acordingly - the blasts he casts never missed(could be lucky, but he managed 12 successful casts without a single miss) but his melee hits report 4.3% miss for me and i have only 3.6 melee hit as elem due to spirit gear which prettty much says i should actually forge spirit to hit to get melee hit capped to get maximum dps from the FE? I'd love it if some1 confirms this. Also FE seems to be barely critting which makes be believe in no scaling with crit too, which is rather sad.

Edit: searing does seem to have higher crit rating, so not sure on him. Also u don't need to refresh dots/hots or anything of that sort as they will reflect any change from procs automatically ( save for % damage modifiers? not sure on that one).

[windfurybot]

90% sure both totems scale with haste. searing should tick faster (like FS) with more haste, though I have not tested this to be sure. Fire ele has always been best to use during a lust for the extra haste because it supposedly does scale. If this has somehow changed feel free to correct me, but during lust + racials/trinket procs/potion/other buffs is best time for Fire elemental totem to go down.

[Deleted]

Searing unfortunately (while generally can be accepted as a 1min dot) behaves like a pet - it casts searing bolts and they have fixed cast time and just like any other pet in-game(FE included) it receives no haste scaling from its master SO i'm pretty sure it does nto scale with haste, the only thing besides SP and hit he can scales seems crit(i posted above) as he's showing around 15% crit(28 out of 184)where fire elemntal is showing amusingly low crit rates for his melee attacks( 1 out of 34 melee swings in my log) and about 7% crit on his fire blast ( that can easily be basic 5% due to me having only a super small sample to evaluate )

Edit: I have 20% crit on armory(can't log to check but guessing with Oath). Also I think i watched it one time - unlike enh wolves FE doesn't seem to get the BL Buff and he is a pet of the totem, not a pet of a raid member(me) .

[Dtere1]

So to combine this information here.

Fire Elemental Totem
- Needs 8% melee hit. This is not the same as spirit and does not work off of the spirit conversion from the elemental tree.
- Works off of stats when the totem is dropped. Heroism first, drop totem second.
- Based off of melee stats for crit, haste, and hit; but spellpower for how much damage it does with spells.

Searing totem
- only works off of spell power buffs, crit %, and spell hit %

The above information seem correct?

[Kralljin]

So to combine this information here.

Fire Elemental Totem
- Needs 8% melee hit. This is not the same as spirit and does not work off of the spirit conversion from the elemental tree.
- Works off of stats when the totem is dropped. Heroism first, drop totem second.
- Based off of melee stats for crit, haste, and hit; but spellpower for how much damage it does with spells.

Searing totem
- only works off of spell power buffs, crit %, and spell hit %

The above information seem correct?

Not exactly, as far as i know the Fire Elemental and Searing scale with your stats without procs, else you would always redrop searing during an Int / Sp Proc.

[windfurybot]

Also I think i watched it one time - unlike enh wolves FE doesn't seem to get the BL Buff and he is a pet of the totem, not a pet of a raid member(me) .

This is correct. FE does not receive BL buff when you cast it. But it DOES take a capture of your stats the time of being casted. Spirit wolves, on the other hand, work opposite. They must be out BEFORE BL is cast because they work on the actual buff. That's why you pull your wolves out, then Bloodlust (they get the buff), then cast fire ele totem (which pulls from your current stats, lust included).

again, if anyone can state otherwise, maybe patch notes where they changed it (because afaik it's always worked this way), feel free.

as to searing totem, it was only a guess it scales with haste, since FS does i figured it also ticks faster, but I don't know off the top of my head.

For your summary, Fire ele needs melee hit, but that's not realistic relying on spirit for hit, so if he misses, no big deal. Yes heroism/potion/trinket THEN drop fire ele. Searing, just keep up, don't redrop because you have procs on you, it rescales every tick.

[Sterkrazzy]

Unless they changed it the fire elemental doesn't take any benefit to your haste, only your spell power.

[Shampache]

I keep seeing people say Fire Ele scales with haste. I did a few simple tests (will do more when time permits).

Tests were on Org heroic dummy, using Skada. (I know not 100%, but its a rough estimate)

Naked:
Fire Nova: 29 hits, 3 miss
Attack: 12 hit, 7 glancing, 3 dodge, 1 crit, 3 miss
Fire Shield: 66 hit, 2 crit, 12 miss
Fire Blast: 12 hit, 3 miss

Naked +BL + Berserking (troll racial).
Fire Nova: 24 hit, 4 miss, 1 crit
Attack: 16 hit, 8 glancing, 3 dodge, 2 miss
Fire Shield: 65 hit, 4 crit, 11 miss
Fire Blast: 11 hit, 4 miss

Geared: ~ 15% haste, 17% hit, 20% crit
Attack: 23 hit, 11 glancing
Fire Nova: 24 hit, 1 crit
Fire Blast: 14 hit
Fire Shield: 75 hit, 5 crit

Geared with BL and Berserking
Attack: 22 hit, 7 glancing
Fire Nova: 31 Hit, 2 crit
Fire Blast: 14 hit
Fire Shield: 73 hit, 7 crit

It doesn't appear to be any scaling with Haste or Crit. It does obviously scale with spellpower, and is a Snapshot of your SP when you drop the totem.

This is a small sample size obviously. RNG played a factor, but I would have expected significant differences with BL+Berserking if it scaled with haste.

Something I also want to test is if Fire Elemental scales with the +dmg part of EM.

*side note*
Something should be said about Fire Elemental in the ele guide. It is a pretty significant part of our class and not much besides keep fire totems down is said.

[Spongy]

Pop your fire ele at your highest point of SP. Now this is alot harder to do. As generally if you have a SP proc it will drop at the start of combat but on a boss like Nef the first phase isn't a DPS race so having your fire ele doign 1k-1.5k more dps isnt really needed,(as my guild in 10 man normal was finding it hard to not full nuke nef to hard, as if he goes below 70% before ony is dead BOOM.) But basically pop your first sp trinket or procs etc using your potion at same time redo your searing totem. Then when it comes to a stable time,(Bosses like omnitron, magmaw, maloriak or say chimeron wouldn't really gain your raid popping them at your first potion with your trinket procs, unles your guild struggles on dps,) you can fire ele use your second potion which you can control. That is what I have done and have got very good results from it.

[Shampache]

The main benefit to dropping Fire Ele at the beginning of a fight is everything is off CD + pre pot (having another pot for Lust). Obviously if there is a burn phase your raid is having problems with then save it for that. If you cant get the full duration of Fire Ele at the start of a fight, then save it for when you can.

Having Volcanic potion, volcano deck proc, power torrent and JC (or any other) on use SP/Int trinket gives a significant boost to Fire Ele. Yes, you can theoretically time all these procs later in a fight, but it becomes more difficult.

Using Fire Ele at the beginning (assuming above precautions) kills 2 birds with 1 stone. 1. You use it at max SP 2. Your already using trinkets at the beginning of most fight to get more use of them (if you have on use or are an engineer), so it is easy to time them.