Fireball v. Frostfire again

**Fizzlethorpe** · 2011-01-28, 06:00 PM

Given the updated news yesterday:

"Fireball now costs 9% of base mana, down from 12%.
Frostfire Bolt now costs 9% of base mana, down from 16%."

Will Frostfire, then, become the spell of choice for fire mages?

**Valanna** · 2011-01-28, 06:04 PM

No. Still fireball.

Deleted · 2011-01-28, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Valanna

No. Still fireball.

care to elaborate?

**conqq** · 2011-01-28, 06:06 PM

with enough mastery & crit, FFB > FB

**zbik** · 2011-01-28, 06:07 PM

both are 16% on live, id guess that them ever being different mana cost might be a bug or oversight
they seem to intend both spells to be a trade off based on which glyph you prefer, 5% crit or 3% x3 dmg dot
i know on live,once glyphed both are same mana,and same dmg per spell w/ same cast time

**Cebel** · 2011-01-28, 06:09 PM

Stop asking this to death, jesus christ, theres 15 other threads asking this same damn question, READ THEM! READ THEM! READ THEM! READ THEM! FB > FFB! ITS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTIME SOON! SO STOP ASKING AND READ THE OTHER THREADS!

/endangryrantofretardedchildrenaskingthesamequestionoverandoveragain

**Televators** · 2011-01-28, 06:13 PM

As stated in 50 other threads, the difference between Fireball and FFB is pretty much cosmetic. There is less than 1% difference in DPS between the two and depending on gear choice, rating amount and outside effects (such as certain raid buffs), one can then hop over the other. Simply use whatever one you like the most.

**conqq** · 2011-01-28, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Televators

As stated in 50 other threads, the difference between Fireball and FFB is pretty much cosmetic. There is less than 1% difference in DPS between the two and depending on gear choice, rating amount and outside effects (such as certain raid buffs), one can then hop over the other. Simply use whatever one you like the most.

It all depends on your crit levels & mastery, with higher mastery & crit, FFB is better due to the dot portion. FB should be used earlier on because of our incredibly low crit %s

**Wilderness** · 2011-01-28, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by conqq

It all depends on your crit levels & mastery, with higher mastery & crit, FFB is better due to the dot portion. FB should be used earlier on because of our incredibly low crit %s

In BiS i372 gear FFB still doesn't surpass FB - so while yes, in theory it could with certain levels of gear we definitely aren't there yet.

And of course you also have to take into account that you only get a few seconds of the dot before it gets refreshed, and that the dot crits screw up ignite munching even moreso than normal. Also, does the OP realize that FB and FFB had the same 16% base mana cost; they hotfixed FB down to 12% and now they'll be making both FB/FFB the same 9% - so really nothing else changed in relation to the spells and their dps compared to each other. You just shouldn't have to use scorch much, if at all.

**Heilige** · 2011-01-28, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by zbik

both are 16% on live, id guess that them ever being different mana cost might be a bug or oversight
they seem to intend both spells to be a trade off based on which glyph you prefer, 5% crit or 3% x3 dmg dot
i know on live,once glyphed both are same mana,and same dmg per spell w/ same cast time

Fireball is currently 12% on live. They pushed a 25% hotfix through a week/week and a half ago. Tooltip still reflects 16% and you need to have 16% to cast fireball, but the cost is only 12%. Won't be fixed until a patch as that data is not server side, it's client side.

This is just the second nerf to cost and to be honest, a bit unnecessary IMO. Aside from Heroic Chimaeron with all the f'ing misses going out, I'm not needing to scorch aside from movement. So another 25% reduction (totaling 43.75% reduction from the initial cost) is just a bit much. Give me part of my pre-4.0.1 coefficients back, or hell even just some of the base damage back.

**Otaka** · 2011-01-28, 06:50 PM

in PvP its FFB. 60% slow is neat. not even frostbolt does that without specific talents.

**Mixelphlick** · 2011-01-28, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Otaka

in PvP its FFB. 60% slow is neat. not even frostbolt does that without specific talents.

Its only 60% with frost talents (prior to which it is 40% and identical to frostbolt) which is really nothing even remotely related to the discussion here. So yeah.

**Hotfish** · 2011-01-28, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Otaka

in PvP its FFB. 60% slow is neat. not even frostbolt does that without specific talents.

It's 70%. Permafrost (10%) + Frostfire Orb talents (20%).

**Wizie** · 2011-01-28, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hotfish

It's 70%. Permafrost (10%) + Frostfire Orb talents (20%).

Execept as far as i know, anyone in their right mind wont take that talent for PvP. Atleast not arena

**Hotfish** · 2011-01-28, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Wizie

Execept as far as i know, anyone in their right mind wont take that talent for PvP. Atleast not arena

**Wizie** · 2011-01-28, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hotfish

**Perdition** · 2011-01-28, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Hotfish

maybe I'm not understanding correctly..but isn't grabbing that talent when you get FFB glyph...make it basically pointless?

**Gnomity** · 2011-01-28, 08:22 PM

although I disagree with the PVP discussion currently in this thread, as it was clearly a question on PvE Mage DPS as fireball or FFB, I'll inject one comment into the post here and then suggest if you wish to debate it, create a different thread.

That talent always makes sense, ALWAYS, as frostfire ORB will then slow targets, as opposed to just frostfire BOLT. Currently frostfire orb used properly will allow a mage to kite even a feral druid (pre feral nerf) as it constant refreshes the slow - they simply can't shift fast enough to get out of it. EDIT: It also procs FoF this way, which is always win.

Back on topic: Fireball crit +5% is still a greater buff than the FFB dot - especially when you consider that the measly dot critting can munch a fireball or pyroblast crit which would make me cry.

**Gobs** · 2011-01-28, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Televators

As stated in 50 other threads, the difference between Fireball and FFB is pretty much cosmetic. There is less than 1% difference in DPS between the two and depending on gear choice, rating amount and outside effects (such as certain raid buffs), one can then hop over the other. Simply use whatever one you like the most.

But according to other threads, anything less then 1% difference = huge debate regarding dps.

I laugh.

**Fahren Kaa** · 2011-01-28, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Otaka

in PvP

LOLOLOLOLLO Fire in pvp.

If you have dark intent (if for some reason there's no druid / other warlock to waste it on) use FFB w/ glyph

As for the frostfire orb talent, 2 points are necessary to make it proc fingers of frost. Which is amazing for burst on the move in Peeveepee.

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