Huntard... concussive shot and threat?

[Fornaw]

The fact that the tank pulled and either couldn't find his taunt button, or couldn't get enough threat to manage a Concussive Shot, possibly matched with an auto shot, says volumes about the tank, rather than the Hunter.

Some tanks pull with taunt. It's reasonably common if you need a ranged pull and your spec's ranged pull is on CD from the previous pack. I'd agree that it's poor practice, but there's more than enough of that in the average player, tank or no tank. To be perfectly honest if you need your taunt during it's first cooldown after pulling a pack either
1) some DPS wasn't paying attention to your pull and did something dumb or
2) something went wrong with your pull (your attack missed etc)

DPS who assume that the tank's taunt CD exists to correct for their mistakes are some of the ones who create impatient, vote-kick happy, overbearing tanks which those same DPS turn around and complain about. The tank's taunt CD exists to correct for the tank's mistake, if he uses it to save your skin thank him. Break the cycle instead of reinforcing it.

[ureonfire]

sorry if I am wrong in the mechanics... but tank pulls one target... i hit with conc shot to move into better position, the slowdown allows tank to regenerate aggro... i get to move to a better position.. my concussive shot does not say by shooting you will do any damge except slow the target.. tank has more time to regenerate, i get to move into a better position to attack..nope.. in this case I generated more threat than a level 85 tank with a crappy shot no hunter barely uses.. that is why I am asking if it is a bug!

remember there are 3 other players..I cant believe my "mistake' of using a concussive shot which doesn't do any damage... plus my gear score is only 7033, and no one else would have generated threat above me... that is why I am asking..


and when a tank generates threat.. the only issue to generate more threat is his cooldown.. so by slowing the target the threat is still there,, now the tank should be able to redo his threat.. no?

Every pull you can, yes. I'm still a little lost as to why you would conc shot a mob on its way to the tank in the first place. The longer it takes the mob to get to the tank, the longer it takes the tank to build threat. And looking for logic in the order of how a gun works in WoW is just silly.

---------- Post added 2011-01-30 at 07:23 AM ----------



That's great, but he should still be using misdirect.

[Fornaw]

sorry if I am wrong in the mechanics... but tank pulls one target... i hit with conc shot to move into better position, the slowdown allows tank to regenerate aggro... i get to move to a better position.. my concussive shot does not say by shooting you will do any damge except slow the target.. tank has more time to regenerate, i get to move into a better position to attack..nope.. in this case I generated more threat than a level 85 tank with a crappy shot no hunter barely uses.. that is why I am asking if it is a bug!

remember there are 3 other players..I cant believe my "mistake' of using a concussive shot which doesn't do any damage... plus my gear score is only 7033, and no one else would have generated threat above me... that is why I am asking..


and when a tank generates threat.. the only issue to generate more threat is his cooldown.. so by slowing the target the threat is still there,, now the tank should be able to redo his threat.. no?

You don't have omen so you can't be sure how much threat you did, from the sound of things you're pretty inexperienced so you probably don't know what the tank was doing or had done to pull the mob in question either. What we know from your post is, you used an attack on a freshly pulled pack of mobs, this attack had the effect of slowing the target. We also know from experience that tooltips are rarely accurate regarding things like threat, the status of autoshot isn't easy to determine, hunters as a class have a diverse selection of threat management tools, and that pulling aggro and slowing one mob within a pack often frustrates tanks. Further expecting a tank to regenerate threat on something just because its slowed is a sure fire way to infuriate a tank.

You seem stuck on the idea that the tank should be able to overcome any aggro you generated in a small span of time either from auto shot, concussive shot, or oops I forgot which button was which shot. Tanks are melee classes, it's quite likely that concussive shot slowed whatever it was to the extent that it never got, or was no longer within melee range of the tank, meaning he would need 130% of your threat to get it back. However he most likely had 77% or less of your threat since you did manage to pull.

So this doesn't sound like a bug, the only thing which doesn't appear to be working as intended sits between the keyboard and the chair.

[microtonal]

sorry if I am wrong in the mechanics... but tank pulls one target... i hit with conc shot to move into better position, the slowdown allows tank to regenerate aggro... i get to move to a better position.. my concussive shot does not say by shooting you will do any damge except slow the target.. tank has more time to regenerate, i get to move into a better position to attack..nope.. in this case I generated more threat than a level 85 tank with a crappy shot no hunter barely uses.. that is why I am asking if it is a bug!

Concussive Shot is mostly a PvP ability. Its uses in group PvE play are extremely limited.

And no, the daze effect does not allow the tank to generate or regenerate aggro, because Concussive Shot itself generates quite a lot of aggro, all directed at you. So it's actually preventing the tank from generating aggro, which is the exact opposite of what you think it does.

It's not bugged, you're just using it wrong.

and when a tank generates threat.. the only issue to generate more threat is his cooldown.. so by slowing the target the threat is still there,, now the tank should be able to redo his threat.. no?

No. Tanking doesn't work that way. Most tanking-specific cooldowns are defensive, not offensive. They don't generate threat, they either prevent or mitigate damage.

[Numeanor]

Every pull you can, yes. I'm still a little lost as to why you would conc shot a mob on its way to the tank in the first place. The longer it takes the mob to get to the tank, the longer it takes the tank to build threat. And looking for logic in the order of how a gun works in WoW is just silly.

---------- Post added 2011-01-30 at 07:23 AM ----------



That's great, but he should still be using misdirect.

Ofc, if he is MM and using daze to regen more focus he should also specc into chimera and multishot daze and MD on tank and open with serpent-> chimera for max threat transfer.

[nilumbus]

Something people seem to be missing. Defias Pirates in Deadmins have a charge abilitiy. They use it fairly regularly, and when they do they usually stick to the target unless pulled off by a taunt since they will be out of melee range after they charge someone. This wasn't entirely your fault since you can't control when they charge. However, if you were at your minimum range he wouldn't of been able to charge at you.

Also, there is an option under Interface > Combat to Stop Auto Attack, which will make you stop auto-attacking every time you switch targets, and yes it applies to Auto-Shoot. Auto-Shoot is also an ability, and like every other abilitiy it can be put on an action bar which will let you toggle it at will.

[Kanshan]

Got booted from a heroic dungeon because tank pulled target, I shot with concussive shot. and target went after me.. is that a bug...???

Why concussive shot?

Edit : Also use MD when first attacks hunters burst can pull aggro sometimes

[Naturae]

Tanks who pull with taunt are dumb. Tanks who are too slow to get initial threat in 3 globals worth of time are bad.

I'm generally sick of this "you should have misdirected" thing as well. This hunter is clearly not the greatest hunter out there but I don't think he's claiming that. A tank should treat every group equally. If you have an MD that's nice to use but it's not a hunter's responsibility to make up for a tank not getting threat on the main target. If a hunter or rogue isn't in that tanks group then what? People just die and then most-likely blame the healer lol. Tanking is, without a doubt, the easiest of the 3 roles to choose from.

So finally, the tank should've actually hit the target. The target was slowed and pulled off the tank for whatever reason. Thanks to the slow, an auto-attack or the other 15 tank abilities (or 4 if it's a feral druid) should've been enough to pull it off a hunter who simply conc. shotted and auto-attacked because I know that, even with my gear...that generally isn't very much threat. I don't believe this hunter should've gotten booted but instead, told not to conc shot because the tank has the reflexes of mozilla firefox, or more obviously, a turtle.
/Thread

[Derian]

If he is MM hunter concussive shot is a good thing to use if he has glyph of dazzled prey. If target is dazed, steady shot regen more focus back = more arcane shots to pew pew = moar DPS. As MM hunter can basicaly keep daze on target 100% of the time.

Actually, in pve it'd be a dps loss to keep concussive shot active for glyph of dazzled prey, since you're spending a GCD and not doing any damage with it; better to just start casting steady/cobra shot with that GCD. (dazzled prey works with both shots, even if it only says steady). The focus gained from the glyph doesn't outweigh the lost GCD.

It's different in pvp of course, since we generally have to keep people slowed with conc. shot to keep them away.

[ureonfire]

That is/was unchecked... and I removed auto attack from my tool bar... after... so if it was on my toolbar, it would seem to activate itself to be always on??? the question I am asking.. the auto attack was unchecked in 'interface" but on my toolbar.... when on my toolbar it seemed to be always on ... to be clear I no longer have auto attack anywhere on my screen, now... so I have no way of turning it off/on unless i go into interface... combat..

nope i am screwed... I cannot seem to shoot just ONE SHOT without auto attack kicking in.. thats a huge BUG!!

so my point and question is valid.. and so is everyones response... but why does blizzard make my non aggressive shot into an aggressive shot by kicking in auto shot!!!

if i want to stun you/tranq you... why does blizzard kick in with the bullets... thats just not RIGHT!!!

Something people seem to be missing. Defias Pirates in Deadmins have a charge abilitiy. They use it fairly regularly, and when they do they usually stick to the target unless pulled off by a taunt since they will be out of melee range after they charge someone. This wasn't entirely your fault since you can't control when they charge. However, if you were at your minimum range he wouldn't of been able to charge at you.

Also, there is an option under Interface > Combat to Stop Auto Attack, which will make you stop auto-attacking every time you switch targets, and yes it applies to Auto-Shoot. Auto-Shoot is also an ability, and like every other abilitiy it can be put on an action bar which will let you toggle it at will.

[selcar]

why would you want to stun/tranq someone without shooting them?

[ureonfire]

to give me time to move, regenerate, same as freeze trap sort of... I can shoot that and it gives me 1.10 min of time not to deal with the target.... i shoot you with a slow down shot (concussive), but now blizz makes me auto shoot them without asking if that was my intention... sort of like hunting an escaped lion.. I shoot with a tranq... to slow them down.. but no you automatically start blowing away at the beast.. why not just blow them away first shot if my shot is slow down then auto shot... so this shot is spanked and useless!!

Auto shot kicks in.... but the tooltip doesn't say that... it just says "dazes the target,slowing movement speed for 4 seconds..and doesnt say auto activates auto shot, generating a high amount of threat"

or maybe I am a crap player and just want to run away... I know I am not that good.. LOL

why would you want to stun/tranq someone without shooting them?

[HammondQ]

Ur playing a hunter wrong.


Tank pulls you do one of two things..... you either MD to the tank or wait for the tank to get aggro before you attack.

you dont do anything else. Dont try to get cute.

[Derian]

Well, tranq shot actually doesn't turn on your autoattack. But, if you want to be able to conc. shot a target without starting to autoattack, there is a way. If you make a mouseover conc. shot macro, it'll fire the concussive shot at your mouseover target, and not start autoattacking unless you already have them physically targeted.

Here's the one I use:

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, exists, harm][harm] Concussive Shot

Edit: Note that if you're MM with wild quiver, Concussive shot can trigger the free attack (which does cause threat), as can tranq shot.

Also, omen is telling me that Concussive shot generates roughly 16 threat (the equivalent of about 16 damage).

[Gluttonious]

literally tank pulled.. waited 2 secs.. shot conc... target jumped and mauled me.. I had to fight my way out... got called on "huntard"... I only did conc shot... according to my shot specs it should be like tranquilizing an animal no threat, no aggro...

Why were you fighting your way out when all you had to do was feign death would of solved everything same with a fd focus macro, you also have the option to stop attacking but if padding the meters is what your looking to do

[Deleted]

Could you be any more rude? The first points you made were valid, but its people acting like this in heroics that make them in general so nasty to pug.

Wrong. The one and only thing that makes heroic (pugs?) so 'nasty'. Is people who do not understand and/or are able to play their class decently. Most likely the OP in this topic had no clue what his class does, otherwise he would've used either misdirect, or feign death, or deterrence to give the tank time to pick off the mob. Also he thought concussive was a cc ability.

This clearly is an L2P issue from the OP's side.

[Ailthas]

I remember tanking an Auchindon heroic on my warrior back in TBC, and there was this hunter that kept pulling agro on an individual mob out of a pack. He would then proceed to run back toward the entrance, shooting and jumping and just generally making it a nuisance to chase down the mob. He never bothered to feign, just kept running and attacking. So after a bit I just stopped chasing after him and if he pulled I just let him keep it. Had we had the vote to kick option back then, I would have kicked him, even if he was doing the best DPS in the group. And it sounds a lot like what the OP was up to.

[refire]

I remember tanking an Auchindon heroic on my warrior back in TBC, and there was this hunter that kept pulling agro on an individual mob out of a pack. He would then proceed to run back toward the entrance, shooting and jumping and just generally making it a nuisance to chase down the mob. He never bothered to feign, just kept running and attacking. So after a bit I just stopped chasing after him and if he pulled I just let him keep it. Had we had the vote to kick option back then, I would have kicked him, even if he was doing the best DPS in the group. And it sounds a lot like what the OP was up to.

I think thats a bit different. Concussive as a form of cc was pretty valid in TBC heroics. I know the one in particularly I used it in a lot were the Serprentshrine heroics. The set of guards that came in packs of two at each tunnel were a pain. Kiting away for cc not only damaged them, but also made the tank take 50% less damage.

[Ailthas]

Oh I agree. There was also that pair in Sethekk Halls heroic that would pretty much crush any not-so-geared tank. But I'm talking about say, a normal Mana Tombs. Mage sheep, hunter trap. That was all that was needed.

Or maybe Shattered Halls where it was accepted that a hunter would grab one or two and run down the hall with them. But when everything was dead the hunter just needed to feign and the tank could pick up the leftovers.

But in my scenario, the last mob up was basically soloed by the hunter since no one really wanted to chase after him, even the healer. And in the case of the OP where he says he'd concuss, reposition himself, concuss, the entire time thinking the tank would chase after him to pick up the mob, I can see why the tank would get angry.

When I tank multiple mobs, and one gets loose, I'll taunt it and wait for it to come back and either use AoE or single target damage when it gets back into range. If it never gets there, which can be for any reason like it was a long way to run or because it had a ways to run and it was slowed by oh I don't know, a concussive shot, then it'll go back to the person it was on before. In which case I taunt again. At some point though, taunt won't work anymore and I go with the you spanked it you tank it rule.

[Arararagi]

This thread is pretty comical. Thanks for a few laughs.