State of Survi and MM 4.0.6

[Yewen]

I was on femaledwarf and currently I am set at 15783.68. This number represents live.

If I introduce the new Meta, Gloves tinker (300 agi) the number becomes: 16242.18 - Remember this number is only representing a new meta and new gloves tinker, not PTR Changes.

Now I introduce the PTR settings to 16242.18. This number drops to 14972.50, a -1269.68 decrease.

This is where it gets interesting.

I resort to a MM spec with everything set back to normal as it is on live. No new Meta, no new gloves tinker. This number is: 13881.86 -- a -1901.82 decrease from the current Surv Spec on Live.

Now let us introduce the new Meta, Gloves Tinker and see what happens. This number increases to: 14216.56 - Remember this is not with the PTR settings, but live. The Number increases by +334.7.

Lets go crazy now and with the New Meta, gloves ,and PTR settings, lets see what MM is projected to bring.

The New Number: 16224.82 Roughly the same as the Live version of Surv if the Meta and gloves tinker were introduced and nothing else. For those who hate math 16224.82 is a 441.14 increase to the current Surv Spec.

Conclusion: From my testing (feel free to test yourselves) MM will not only be better than surv once patch hits, but even more "op" as surv is now. If you feel that my calculations are incorrect please correct me. Feel free to load my hunter into Femaledwarf and test this out if you don't have a hunter.

Latency at which this was tested: 150

Just Tested BM with new Meta, tinker to gloves, and PTR changes. Number is: 14743.86

Demarioux
Server: Bloodhoof (US)
Primary Spec: MM
Secondary Spec: SV
Pet Name: BP

[wowplayer]

that sucks. they should cap the cost of respec as i am being forced to do so with every patch. or maybe...just make each as equal as possible? in this case dont nerf SV and buff MM and BM?

[Yewen]

wowplayer, I could be completely wrong in this test. So take it with a grain of salt. I encourage everyone to plug in their hunter and try this "formula" and see what comes up. I would love to see if other people are experiencing this increase or as I theorized (to myself) that MM will scale better with higher end gear than Surv.

It may be safe to assume, (just may) that Surv at lower gear levels may actually be better than MM, but at higher gear levels MM would be better than Surv. Just like it was in ICC once your hit the Armor Pen softcap it was encouraged that all Surv hunters switch to MM, but before you hit the soft cap Surv was the way to go due to agi v armor pen scaling.

[Rackfu]

I sometimes wonder how Blizzard determines how much they are going to buff/nerf something.

One would assume that they have some sort of internal simulator. They can't be just randomly throwing numbers out and just hoping they work, right?

I mean, nerf the one spec that was supposedly doing too much damage and buff another one so that it will be as good as the one you nerfed, before you nerfed it.

lol

[Yewen]

I sometimes wonder how Blizzard determines how much they are going to buff/nerf something.

One would assume that they have some sort of internal simulator. They can't be just randomly throwing numbers out and just hoping they work, right?

I mean, nerf the one spec that was supposedly doing too much damage and buff another one so that it will be as good as the one you nerfed, before you nerfed it.

lol

I can't stress this enough, this could be completely wrong, and to assume it's correct is not smart. Blizzard could change something at the last minute or Femaledwarf could be wrong. Unless other people take the time and do exactly what I did and report their conclusions then this is just another "What if" thread.

I keep replying to keep this on topic instead of users coming into a thread just to state their displeasure of Hunter's dps or Blizzard in general.

[Rackfu]

I can't stress this enough, this could be completely wrong, and to assume it's correct is not smart. Blizzard could change something at the last minute or Femaledwarf could be wrong. Unless other people take the time and do exactly what I did and report their conclusions then this is just another "What if" thread.

I keep replying to keep this on topic instead of users coming into a thread just to state their displeasure of Hunter's dps or Blizzard in general.

I think lots of people have done the math and played around on the PTR and I think the conclusion is that 4.0.6 MM will likely pass 4.0.6 Surv as the best hunter DPS spec and might even be as good or better than Surv (4.0.3) currently is.

I wasn't trying to bash Blizzard with my last post. I'm sure that trying to balance all the classes is not an easy task.

It is just that more times than not, their attempts at balancing specs (which should be easier than balancing classes) is just all over the place and it makes you wonder how they come up with the changes that they decide to implement.

[Yewen]

I think lots of people have done the math and played around on the PTR and I think the conclusion is that 4.0.6 MM will likely pass 4.0.6 Surv as the best hunter DPS spec and might even be as good or better than Surv (4.0.3) currently is.

I wasn't trying to bash Blizzard with my last post. I'm sure that trying to balance all the classes is not an easy task.

It is just that more times than not, their attempts at balancing specs (which should be easier than balancing classes) is just all over the place and it makes you wonder how they come up with the changes that they decide to implement.

Ha it does make you wonder, however if it is true *crosses fingers* let us hope that it is found out quickly. Because my thoughts that if blizzard doesn't know that this will happen then not only will they nerf MM, but take a freakin sludge hammer across all specs of the Hunter.

[Vortakai]

It's been tested a few 10000 times.

MM will be better single target fights.

Any fight where you need to burn adds which there are alot of. SV is far better.

[Kyira]

If this is true just confirms I'll be running with duel spec MM - Single Target fights , SV - AoE Fights.

I've always preferred Marks spec I guess its the Vanilla Hunter in me, I didn't like the Elemental switch SV took either, bring back the old Expose Weakness raid buffing SV. If Marks is gonna be competitive again I'm happy even more so if SV and BM are also performing well then the whole hunter community can play their preferred spec

[Jon]

that sucks. they should cap the cost of respec as i am being forced to do so with every patch. or maybe...just make each as equal as possible? in this case dont nerf SV and buff MM and BM?

Some people respec every raid day, several times, depending on the encounter (dual spec just isn't enough). If you have to respec only when a new patch comes out, consider yourself lucky.

Surv needed the nerfs since they were too good compared to other classes, but hunters will still remain excellent dps in 4.0.6.

[Argg0]

Try removing Arcane Shot from your rotation, it will further increase your damage there. And, when it gets implemented, Hard Cast Aimed Shot is going to increase even more.

[Rukah]

Had a dick around on fem dorf during lunch today:

23790.84 Current (Live) setup
23009.03 PTR 4P PvE SV
23702.93 PTR 4P PvE MM

These tests included Meta, Engi Tinket and Bracer enchant. However, note that the tests were configured to my current (non-heroic) gear setup and may not be an accurate representation for others.

[Shawnacee]

Whats tinker to gloves?

[Mixon]

have they mentioned anything about fixing MM AOE? lol its nonexistent atm and it seems weird they would expect us to raid with no AOE in our raiding spec no? in hardmodes SV is already way behind other classes.

also my spread sheets are reflecting the same thing. the + side of it all is SV scales horrible, and is going to scale even more horrible after the patch. MM will scale a little better even tho its still a little behind most other classes, meaning we will not continue to fall as far behind as gear goes up.

This can be verified buy the DPS per point on FD and also by

Normal Mode 10 Man :
http://stateofdps.com/index.php?raid...s=200&spec=dps

Normal Mode 25 Man :
http://stateofdps.com/index.php?raid...s=200&spec=dps

Hard Mode 10 Man :
http://stateofdps.com/index.php?raid...s=200&spec=dps

Hard Mode 25 Man :
http://stateofdps.com/index.php?raid...s=200&spec=dps

[Four Tet]

Whats tinker to gloves?

The current Synapse Springs procs Intellect every minute which makes Engineering highly favored for casters. With the patch that'll change to your highest stat intellect/agility/strength so Engineering will again become competitive for all the other dpsers beyond casters.

[Inject]

Don't forget that Mastery is going to be a pretty valuable stat in 4.0.6 for MM since they gave it a pretty large buff. Assuming you have normal raiding gear you should be around the same mastery that you had at level 80 (~30% chance). So this means we can let our haste fall even lower and reforge it to mastery since we'll have to maintain Improved Steady Shot.

MM AoE isn't horrible because multi-shot can proc wild quiver and our Bombardment talent allows us to use more multi shots than Survival.

Overall I had a pretty large increase (~900dps) on femaledwarf when I changed to MM with all PTR changes. I think what Blizzard has been trying to do is make Marksmanship the raiding spec, Survival the PvP spec (duh), and BM the fun/solo spec.

[Relente]

Is BM going to be a viable spec in 4.0.6? I know that MM and SV are going to do better, but will it be as good as other classes for DPS?

[Dandy]

Is BM going to be a viable spec in 4.0.6? I know that MM and SV are going to do better, but will it be as good as other classes for DPS?

No.

And thats not even counting on bosses where pet is unable to attack.

[Shawnacee]

The current Synapse Springs procs Intellect every minute which makes Engineering highly favored for casters. With the patch that'll change to your highest stat intellect/agility/strength so Engineering will again become competitive for all the other dpsers beyond casters.

Okay. :P thanks
Sadly im not Engineer tho. Haha. Inscribe and skinning for me

[redsunrising15]

BM is already raid viable. The huge buffs it's getting is just icing on the cake.