Does tanking need hit/expertise cap?

[Peacemoon]

You need to hit to be able to benefit from savage defense. It really depends what your fighting. For heroic dungeons, the occasional raid and day to day activity I find hit and expertise important.

For hard mode raids i'm sure your priorities would be very different/extreme.

[Reesify]

I trust people who have completed heroic modes more than someone who has done a couple.

Blindly following someone out of your league is a brilliant and compelling idea.

@Barawr - I have never used rawr to choose gems for me. I know mathematically which is better. Figuring out Time to Live with stamina isn't something that should be done with a program because stat weightings are just plain misleading. Going on a fight-by-fight basis is the best way to gear yourself (and trinket whoring. Lots and lots of trinket whoring.)

[Shizznizz]

Have you used RAWR to get an idea? The moment you switch to Heroic T11 Raid settings it pushes almost all stamina since the survival soft cap greatly increases. As long as Astrylian's numbers are accurate for a proper survival soft cap and boss damage then much more stamina is required.

I'm not ashamed to admit, but i am WAY too stupid to use Rawr properly. I have tried to no avail. I just end up reading various bear guides and blogs around the net to help me out.

@stam-stackers: I take advice from other players, provided their advice is based on sound logic, reasoning and experience. My gemming has suited me perfectly through normal modes and my healers love healing me. I will fully admit i'm completely wrong when i get to heroic modes and get 'roflstomped' and my gemming 'LAWL FAILS'.

OT: If you DO need the hit-cap, try doing some arena for the agility hit pieces

[Arielle]

OT: If you DO need the hit-cap, try doing some arena for the agility hit pieces

Getting an un-reforged Fluid Death, and using Hit food/flask are better options imo.

[Shizznizz]

Getting an un-reforged Fluid Death, and using Hit food/flask are better options imo.

Does that cap you? I have been using my unreforged Fluid Death with the food but i'm a bit shy of the cap. Hell, i didn't even know a hit elixir existed

[Deleted]

No. And if you NEED to interupt, then your raid setup is bad.

[Arielle]

No. And if you NEED to interupt, then your raid setup is bad.

10m says hi.

[Kagonos]

10m says hi.

Virtually every class in the game having some form of interrupt says hi.

[Reesify]

Virtually every class in the game having some form of interrupt says hi.

Interrupts are not identical, even if most classes have them.

[edanna]

Coming From a bear tank (me ilvl 359) dont listen to these fools that tell you gem Agi or dodge or any of that shit. Gem stright Stamina with 2 Mastery or Dodge/Stamina gems for meta gem and rest STRIGHT STAMINA. Stamina>Dodge>Mastery>Crit>Haste>Hit>Expertise. Reforge Hit or Expertise to dodge. If you dont have hit or expertise on gear reforge haste to Dodge. If you dont have Exp Hit or Haste reforge Crit to Dodge. I think you understand where im going with this. Always reforge up on that chart.
Dodge>Mastery>Crit>Haste>Hit>Expertise. Also If you need more suggestion Ensidia off tank is a bear and Paragon GuildLeader and Raidleader and Main Tank is a bear. They also post guides on their sites.

BTW Taunt cant miss! Interupt can miss but if you dont have another interupter in your group other than you there is a problem or even a warrior or DK. So to conclude Hit/Expertise Suck dont do it. And for the love of god dont gem agi.
Ok Ret Pallies, Prot Pallies(CD),All Mage (CD), All Death Knight 2, Boomkin(CD),Feral, Feral tank(Unreliable), All Warriors, Afflic Warlocks(CD), Desto Warlock(CD), MM hunters(CD), Shamans All specs.
So reling on that one class is REDONKULAS lol

[Manito]

At this point I am reforging everything into Dodge. I have 2 solid blue Stam gems in my belt buckle and Relic (may change them to solid AGI gems). All my other gems are AGI/Stam or Dodge/Stam gems. I am under cap for both Hit and Expertise but I have no threat issues.

[idanian]

Virtually every class in the game having some form of interrupt says hi.

Practicality says, hi.

You have to look at what the raid brings to the table and plan accordingly. There are several specs that don't don't have interrupts, someone didn't take the interrupt talent for their spec, or didn't take the talents/glyph to make it more reliable. And quite frankly, you don't want your healers trying to squeeze interrupts in between heals. While only two classes don't have an "interrupt" available, the others are not made equal. The Moonkin interrupt is a 1 min CD, while Shaman's have the ever awesome 5 sec CD on Wind Shear. Reliability is key with interrupts, not just having one.

Also commenting on a raid setup is potentially worthless if you don't know the basics of the set-up. A guild with 12-15 IRL friends that want to do a little raiding together can't be as picky as a guild with 30,50, 100+ people. If you are in a raiding guild of 30+ people and no one can interrupt, but the tanks.... then there are indeed problems.

Considering that many guides during Wotlk and even now still advocate passing the buck on interrupts, assume that the guy next to you isn't going to do his job. Take the talents, get the 8% hit rating, and interrupt.

[edanna]

Practicality says, hi.

While only two classes don't have an "interrupt" available, you have to look at what the raid brings to the table. There are several specs that don't don't have interrupts, someone didn't take the interrupt talent for their spec, or didn't take the talents/glyph to make it more reliable. And quite frankly, you don't want your healers trying to squeeze interrupts in between heals.

Considering that many guides during Wotlk and even now still advocate passing the buck on interrupts, assume that the guy next to you isn't going to do his job. Take the talents, get the 8% hit rating, and interrupt.

Lol Find a BEAR TANK guide that says get hit cause to this day I havent found one. BTW EJ is bad listening to anything on EJ is moronic telling Boomkins to Gem Int BACK IN WRATH lol Telling Priest to gem spirit lawlzor. EJ is terrible. Also Look at Ensidia/FTH new Site or Paragon they will even tell you gem stright Stamina and THEIR hit / expertise is like 1-2% and ensidia does 10 man's so dont be like braa they do 25 but yea 0-3% hit on 359 ilvl gear is all you will have and under 5 expertise. Please be one of the few none flow people your healers will love you if you gem stright stamina because we ran two bear tanks equally gear and the second bear tank was gemming agi and deff took ATON more damage than (Conclave,Magmaw,Omnotron,Halfus,Council)

[Ruak]

Lol Find a BEAR TANK guide that says get hit cause to this day I havent found one. BTW EJ is bad listening to anything on EJ is moronic telling Boomkins to Gem Int BACK IN WRATH lol Telling Priest to gem spirit lawlzor. EJ is terrible. Also Look at Ensidia/FTH new Site or Paragon they will even tell you gem stright Stamina and THEIR hit / expertise is like 1-2% and ensidia does 10 man's so dont be like braa they do 25 but yea 0-3% hit on 359 ilvl gear is all you will have and under 5 expertise. Please be one of the few none flow people your healers will love you if you gem stright stamina because we ran two bear tanks equally gear and the second bear tank was gemming agi and deff took ATON more damage than (Conclave,Magmaw,Omnotron,Halfus,Council)

First, you write like you're 14 or so (and I guess you are). It's not "cool", afraid I'll have to disappoint you
Second, stamina does nothing to reduce incoming damage, while agility does, so if you think for a second, you'd realize that it's impossible for the Agi-gemmed tank to take "ATON more damage". He might be dying more. But he is not taking "ATON more damage".

Apart from that, I agree with the the ideas, but the way you support them is awful. Grow up faster, please.

[Kagonos]

Practicality says, hi.

While only two classes don't have an "interrupt" available, you have to look at what the raid brings to the table. There are several specs that don't don't have interrupts, someone didn't take the interrupt talent for their spec, or didn't take the talents/glyph to make it more reliable. And quite frankly, you don't want your healers trying to squeeze interrupts in between heals.

Considering that many guides during Wotlk and even now still advocate passing the buck on interrupts, assume that the guy next to you isn't going to do his job. Take the talents, get the 8% hit rating, and interrupt.

I'm sorry. If your question is, "I have really shitty interrupters in my raid. Should I try to get hit/expertise capped?" Then you might have a valid point. But the question is "Does tanking need hit/expertise cap?" The answer is simply no. To the guy who says "stack stam and do like the best guild in the world's bear tanks, cuz they know everything." See Reesify's above post about blindly following people out of your league...

I use skull bash regularly. I do not need to because I have smart and reliable players, but I like to use it to ensure the interrupt. Rather than advocate wasting 961 rating (just for hit cap, not to mention whatever expertise you may have) on your gear so you can guarantee an interrupt, why not suggest teaching your raiders how to better interrupt? You can gain SO much more from that 961 rating in dodge, mastery, hell, even crit. As it has been pointed out (by Reesify??) in other threads, at a certain point, expertise will eventually beat out crit as a better mitigation stat due to certain mechanics (which isn't relevant to this thread.)

Stop using the "What if there are no/bad interrupters in my raid?" excuse. Make a new thread for that argument. No, you do NOT need hit/expertise caps since threat is not an issue. Can it solve some of your problems with interrupts and threat? Sure. But there are other/better ways to fix BOTH of those problems that do not require you to waste your survivability stats on hit/expertise. If you do this, it is situational to YOUR personal experience, not a recommended way to gear yourself. As with all suggestions, they are just that. But it is stupid to say that you NEED hit/expertise at ALL on your gear, let alone to "cap" it.

[Arielle]

Lol Find a BEAR TANK guide that says get hit cause to this day I havent found one. BTW EJ is bad listening to anything on EJ is moronic telling Boomkins to Gem Int BACK IN WRATH lol Telling Priest to gem spirit lawlzor. EJ is terrible. Also Look at Ensidia/FTH new Site or Paragon they will even tell you gem stright Stamina and THEIR hit / expertise is like 1-2% and ensidia does 10 man's so dont be like braa they do 25 but yea 0-3% hit on 359 ilvl gear is all you will have and under 5 expertise. Please be one of the few none flow people your healers will love you if you gem stright stamina because we ran two bear tanks equally gear and the second bear tank was gemming agi and deff took ATON more damage than (Conclave,Magmaw,Omnotron,Halfus,Council)

Since melee and Shamans are the only ones that bring a reliable short CD interrupt, it's entirely possibly to construct a group that requires the tank to interrupt. Moreover, there are situations where it's simply more practical to have the tank interrupting in a 10m, such as:

Arcanatron once the shield is down and the DPS have switched.
Halfus (could be accomplished by a focus macro, as long as you don't mind fireballs womping the raid).
Feludius (or whatever his name is).

Or it could be that your tank is simply better at interrupting.

[Slavko]

Threat wise expertise > hit. Being capped isn't necessary for either, but you should be close.

[Arielle]

Threat wise expertise > hit. Being capped isn't necessary for either, but you should be close.

No, there is no reason to cap Expertise. At all.

[elossa]

I would go for the caps, but if u dont mind loosing sometimes(depends on how good ur dps mates are), but i prefer and find it alot more stable and easier to go hard on tank stats gear and easy stable agro thrue the caps, atm cant fully cd nuke on my warrior whitout geting agro fast and hard, same goes for my frost dk 2h more and more(gear goten 346+).

try what works best for u.

[Shizznizz]

10m says hi.

Correct, i'm in a 10 man guild where the only melee (bar myself and my prot co-tank) we have is a Ret paladin

No. And if you NEED to interupt, then your raid setup is bad.

Yeah, probably is, but i'd rather raid and down 6-7 bosses with friends then dump them for a random i don't like to play with. I'd like to see how you'd manage to squeeze consistent reliable interrupts out of my guild:
2 locks
1 mage
1 boomkin
2 surv hunters

If you have genuine viable suggestions then im willing to take your advice, but i think until then, i'll stick with trying to get capped for some fights where my ret isn't available