I miss being able to be geared quick, please dont nerd rage at this :D

[Montesquieu]

Heroic LCTV takes less than 20min in random queue. There's quite a few quick ones out there.

If you're skipping the first two bosses, why yes. It's a very quick instance.

[Ninurta]

Why do people that are not raiding need raid gear? I dont understand this. The people that do a daily heroic every other day just expect to get epics handed to them for some reason, do you need it to stand around orgrimmar and look pretty?

I don't expect to get them handed to me at all just a little faster ramp up because we can't all play 5-7 days a week and 5-6 hrs a day. some of us have work, kids, and a life that revolves around more than just wow. I just want to be able to get into the raids faster than You currently can atm.

[monsage]

Er...getting gear is hard? What? I went from full 333 to full 346 gear in about a week of running 2-4 heroics per day. That's too hard? You want free epics handed to you on an Elementium platter like on wotlk? Alright, just quit now and come back in patch 4.2 or 4.3.

It amazes me how all of these people get "QQ gear is too hard to get" out of "ugh it takes too much time to get raid gear".
2-4 heroics a day is still 3-6 hours, which for you maybe is not that long, for others that is all of the time they are off of work that day...

[Rä]

So the TL;DR is I don't want to work for gear, I don't want to l2p, I don't want to have to put effort into the game. That about right? Sorry I hated the "Please hand me everything for free" mentality most people in wrath had or developed. There are a ton of QQ threads from people that seem to think their $15/month entitles them to have everything handed to them. Personally I think more people need to quit playing wow and start playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island and stop trying to revert wow back to the fail that was wrath.

It amazes me how all of these people get "QQ gear is too hard to get" out of "ugh it takes too much time to get raid gear".
2-4 heroics a day is still 3-6 hours, which for you maybe is not that long, for others that is all of the time they are off of work that day...

You don't need to do 2-4 heroics a day to gear up for raids. You can do raids on normal without being in all 346, hell you can do most bosses with 333 ilvl gear if you don't suck. Buy gear from the ah, get rep gear, craft gear. It's not hard.

[gherkin]

Running 2-4 heroics a day is a lot, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't have a wife, a stable job, kids, or other IRL responsibilities.

And thus you are not the target of this discussion.

[saltshaker]

I actually enjoy them making things harder to get. The more they bring the game back towards vanilla (in terms of difficulty) i think the more enjoyable the game will be. Or atleast i enjoyed WoW back in classic.

[Cyno]

I don't expect to get them handed to me at all just a little faster ramp up because we can't all play 5-7 days a week and 5-6 hrs a day. some of us have work, kids, and a life that revolves around more than just wow. I just want to be able to get into the raids faster than You currently can atm.

While I agree to the part about having kids a person working full time and going to school full time can still manage enough time gear through heroics or raid or PvP. Saying you can't because of one thing then spending hours a day doing menial tasks or watching TV just doesn't cut it.

I personally manage about twenty to thirty hours of played time a week while working full time taking fifteen credit hours and dealing with the girl.

[monsage]

You don't need to do 2-4 heroics a day to gear up for raids. You can do raids on normal without being in all 346, hell you can do most bosses with 333 ilvl gear if you don't suck. Buy gear from the ah, get rep gear, craft gear. It's not hard.

So what kind of raid group says "LF X Class we don't care about your ilvl"?
In the SECOND week of cata I saw people saying "LFM BH PST ACH or no go" And you expect 333 people to get into them? o_O

[Deleted]

You don't need to do 2-4 heroics a day to gear up for raids. You can do raids on normal without being in all 346, hell you can do most bosses with 333 ilvl gear if you don't suck. Buy gear from the ah, get rep gear, craft gear. It's not hard.

your talking to the player base that strugles with 5 mans...i agree it can be done with a brain, but unfortunatly...see where i am going with this? =p

[deneweth]

This is not a grind. Its not even remotely close. Korean MMORPGs are grinds. Vanilla WoW was a grind doing 15 man UBRS for 2.5 hours after waiting 0.5-1 hour for the group to form and then having a 1 in 8 chance at your chest dropping at rolling against the other people in that 15 man including paladins rolling on warrior gear etc.

Between quest rewards, rep, crafting, JP and drops its really fast and easy to gear up. You don't have to step foot in heroics to be in mostly heroic gear and some raid gear. Its too bad that they moved more towards 7 boss instances with front loaded trash and away from quick half an hour 3 boss instances. Dungeon length is a much bigger factor than 15-20 min queues IMO.

I leveled my DK doing mining and herbalism. I did enough questing to get to friendly for tabards and maybe 4 daily dungeons while leveling. Using the BS crafted greens, CoC reward sword and a few other quest rewards I barely made requirements for level 85 regulars. Three runs in I have a ring, neck, and trinket from drops, as well as a rep cloak from honored. Current ilvl 319, need 329 for heroics. This doesn't seem unreasonable slow, especially if you factor in that most people level by questing and/or instancing and would have much better starting gear via rewards, rep and drops.

I think people rush to heroics for drops but don't realize that heroic pugs suck because everyone doing them rushed in. Do the daily regular for JP and fast rep. Look up the ilvl 333 quest rewards. Use your trade skills to make gear or earn gold for boes. Doing heroic pugs is oddly enough one of the least time efficient ways to gear up for DPS when you factor in all the randomness. If you do have to do heroic pugs then only pick random for the daily VP. Pick the specific instances you need drops from and avoid the pug-wreckers like stonecore (lol) when possible.

[Hakto]

Running 2-4 heroics a day is a lot, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't have a wife, a stable job, kids, or other IRL responsibilities.

And thus you are not the target of this discussion.

This is the biggest load of bull ever.

I personally ran 4-5 a day easily during the early weeks of cata, with a guild grp we did them in approx 2 hours.

If you dont have 2 hours of time per day around your other activities you are doing it wrong.

If you choose to spend your time watching tv, reading a book etc, that does not mean you are not able to do it simply that you choose not to.

Work from 9-5 home by 6 - dinner at 7 - time with wife and kids til 9 - then 2 hours of game time before going to bed.

[Vook]

If you're skipping the first two bosses, why yes. It's a very quick instance.

AFAIK you can't skip bosses in Lost City. You have to kill all three for the last boss to become active.

[MagicBanana]

i agree with OP. it's a time sucking grind to get geared now. it's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of not having a life outside of WoW. and heroic queues for dps don't make it any easier unless you choose to bother with a guild. i thought about getting into pve when i saw the mage tier set but eh...rather just put in my arena matches once a week then go about my life.

Really? And Wotlk wasnt a "time sucking grind to get geared"? I mean I know you could get the full final tiers of gear just by grinding heroics, but you still had to grind heroics to get that gear... and it certainly took alot of runs to get one upgrade. I know. Because I've done it. On multiple characters. :P

On-topic; I like where Cata is at right now. I personally dont have as much time for the game as I would like. But I like where the game is at right now. The "best" gear is in the hands of the raiders and the causals can still see most of the expansion content and get some gear to feel a real difference between having questing greens and blues and having full heroic blues w/ some epics (boe or crafted).

[Belloc]

My paladin tank has a 346 average iLevel, none of which is PvP gear. She hit level 85 exactly one week before she hit that average iLevel.

It took less than a week for my paladin to be geared enough to handle all current normal mode raid content... I think that's "quick" enough.

[MagicBanana]

Welcome to when this game was fun. I wouldn't be a tiny bit surprised if they brought back attunements (I realize they said they weren't, but hey, shit happens).

Simply put: People that put time and effort into this game deserved to be rewarded.

This.

/thread ?

[boubadoo]

Im going to answer this and no Im not going to nerdrage the OP. I started with my hunter 2 weeks late cuz i was out of town got him geared fro heroics teh day after I turned 85. Watch those quest rewards and ah prices. Not hard. My guild neded a tank so i took my farmtoon Dk to 85 in 2 days and had him geared for heroics teh same day. Not hard.

If any heroic save Grim batol takes longer than 30-40 min then you are doing it wrong. No im not an elitist hardcore prick. The item lvl of 329 to 346 and a basic game knowledge should make most heroics a faceroll. Heroic VP is just laughable with cc. I dont need a healer on my blood dk. For crying out loud DBM will tell you to get out of that shit and interupt that, your just not used to it. 5 mans are finally the diffuclty they need to be. They are content. So are the regulars. Regs to heroics to Baradin hold to BWD and BoT.

If the 5 mans are to hard or take to long then so will the raids. If yu dont want to raid then farm and get stuff from ah. I dont understand people that want to be 359 itemlvl but not use it.

If its to hard right now just wait for patch like has been posted before. Some people dont have the skill needed right now. Next patch gets you gear but still wont improve your skill. Skill>gear always.

[Montesquieu]

AFAIK you can't skip bosses in Lost City. You have to kill all three for the last boss to become active.

Then you're able to zerg LCTV in less than 20 minutes? Yarite.

[daburton]

I miss being geared quicker as well. But, just give it till Patch. 4.06 is gonna be the start of a lot of changes. Justice points will be given out in normal dungeons for normal boss kills. Normal dungeons are a hell of a lot quicker than heroics so just wait for patch to hit. You'll be able to complete 3X the number of normals in the same time you would complete 1 heroic and you'll still get as many justice points from it. They have changed mechanics in quite a few of the heroics which should make them easier than they currently are. Once the next actual content patch hits and T11 and all those epics move to the Justice Point vendor, it will open everything up a lot quicker for everyone. Heroics will be easier, VPs will be easier, raids will be a lot easier to get into and complete (since you'll be doing T11 level raids in full T11 epics) which will allow you to obtain Valor points that much quicker from killing those bosses, which, of course, opens up the valor point vendor and T12 epics. You may be a small step behind some people in gear, but not so much that you cant pug your way into things as they open up. My suggestion right now is to use the Auction house to your advantage and sell the current crop of raiders as much crap as you can and just bide your time.

[Arcilux]

Running 2-4 heroics a day is a lot, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't have a wife, a stable job, kids, or other IRL responsibilities.

And thus you are not the target of this discussion.

Far be it from me to disagree with a mod, but full time college and two jobs still leaves enough time for a bit of unwind. Maybe not every single day, but with friends/guild group I could easily get at least 10-20 heroics a week. No spouse or kids I will admit, but the point still comes up, if you cannot afford 30-60 minutes a day minimum then why do you need 346 heroic gear? What purpose could that gear possibly serve if all you have time for is maybe a single BG, or half a dozen dailies? That's the one question that hasn't been answered, why do non-raiders need raid gear?

[Deleted]

personally, i like it that it has become way harder to obtain good gear now.