New Blood DK 31pt Talent?

[tblood]

I know a lot of you, like me, usually treat threads titled like this with a little trepidation. But, this is intended to be a little fun and also throw around a little creative theory crafting.

There have been countless threads questioning the effectiveness of Blood's 31point talent, Dancing Rune Weapon. So, I was thinking about something that might add a little more flavor and flexibility to Blood DK's.

As it stands now:
Dancing Rune Weapon
60 Runic Power 30 yd range
1.5 min cooldown
Requires Melee Weapon
Summons a second rune weapon that fights on its own for 12 sec, doing the same attacks as the Death Knight but for 50% reduced damage. The rune weapon also assists in defense of its master, granting an additional 20% parry chance while active.

In my opinion it's a so-so talent that provides average mitigation at a fairly heavy price. But, that's already been poured over quite a bit in other topics.

My suggestion:
Grip of Exsanguination
Allows you to equip two-handed axes, maces and swords in one hand, but your off-hand weapon deals 50% weapon damage.

Of course something like this would require a little reworking in the rest of the tree, so my thought was to replace Crimson Scourge with something that is actually useful. Like a Threat of Thassarian type talent that allowed your Death Strike, Heart Strike, Rune Strike, Plague Strike, and Blood Strike to also hit with your off-hand, but at the 50% weapon damage stated in GoE.

I realize this is nearly a copy of Warrior's Titan's Grip, but I've always thought Blood DK's to be very similar to Warriors. Both (more so in WotLK when Blood was a DPS spec) rely more heavily on their weapons/runeblades than anything else. Also, I've always wanted to see my DK look a little more "fortified" and imposing as a tank. Being able to dual wield two-handed weapons would accomplish that and also give a little bit more of a tank presence.

As far as how it would impact the game... It would give DK tanks a little more flexibility with their choice of Rune Forging, add in some stats that the class seems to be lacking relative to other tanks, bump our lacking damage, and get rid a fairly clunky cooldown. Some of the buffs currently on the PTR that are increasing our strike's damage may need to be reverted. I don't think something like this would be game-changing, but it could very well need to be "balanced" on some levels.

Once again, this is not a DRW thread discussing the effectiveness of the cooldown. That's already been beaten to death it seems. But, if you like the idea say so. If you don't, please don't go into flame wars!

-Tuum

[Nangz]

I don't think titan's grip with a minor nerf is what we need. What we need is our 31 point threat and dps cooldown to be effective. Making it cost no RP would be an amazing solution as it would allow us to use it on the pull with an outbreak for a massive amount of damage/threat. I like dancing rune weapon but the threat gain is so minor when compared to the two rune strikes that could have been used.

[tblood]

I don't think titan's grip with a minor nerf is what we need. What we need is our 31 point threat and dps cooldown to be effective. Making it cost no RP would be an amazing solution as it would allow us to use it on the pull with an outbreak for a massive amount of damage/threat. I like dancing rune weapon but the threat gain is so minor when compared to the two rune strikes that could have been used.

But that's just it, DRW doesn't really fill in any glaring gaps like a 31pointer should. I don't feel it has a "spec-defining" nature to it. I think a TG oriented talent definitely would. I think it would also fill in a couple gaps. I understand that we are more of a cooldown based tank spec, but we have a number of them already including any "on use" trinkets. What I would like to see is a little more consistent incoming damage, flexibility with rune forging and stat itemization, and a cool "Hey, I'm a freaking Blood DK!" feel. I really think the static stats, damage, and threat would offset the loss of a clunky 31pt talent.

I biggest downside that I can see to a TG type 31pt talent is the potential need for extra hit. Maybe that could be built into Scent of Blood though.

Scent of Blood
You have a 15% chance after dodging, parrying or taking direct damage to gain the Scent of Blood effect, causing your next 1/2/3 melee hits to generate 5 runic power and provide a 25/50/75% additional chance for your off-hand swings to hit.

Don't get me wrong, I love tanking on my DK and love the dynamic feel of Death Strike and Blood Shield. But, I feel like it can still be improved upon and the TG talent is one of the best solutions I can come up with for the reasons stated above.

[JeKv]

DRW, to me, feels like a relic of Blood's days as a DPS spec. I have no suggestions for something to replace it, but I think it should be replaced.

[Nangz]

I don't think that the 31 point needs to fill a specific role but it should be more impacting on our damage/threat/or survival than it currently is. We don't really have a threat increasing cooldown other than ERW ( which isn't a massive increase either) so it would be welcome.

[pedrodevaca]

DRW, to me, feels like a relic of Blood's days as a DPS spec. I have no suggestions for something to replace it, but I think it should be replaced.

I personally like having the option of an avoidance CD, it is very useful when used correctly. Our other CD's are mitigation and healing received, also quite useful, but I like having the third option when avoidance fits the situation best. It is quite expensive compared to the other CD's, however.

[rayfin]

DK's were not meant to DW tank.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE US BE BAD.

[Soisoisoi]

Glyph DRW and it's awesome, just because it uses RP to use it doesn't make it bad. I wouldn't mind it costing nothing but it's fine as it is, imo.

[Ariakas-SoS]

No.
1)DRW is a nice 31pt talent...only thing I'd like to see is an increase to its duration.
2)Death Knights are 2 hander Blood drinking tanks, they're meant to use heavy weapons to smash their foes...dual wielding tanking is dead, deal with it
3)Dks are fun because they're...Dks, not some kind of titangripping Blood warriors.

[Xyonai]

Having a fury warrior and a blood DK main, I do -not- want to have to be stuck playing esessnaily the same thing but with tank skills. A reduced cost to DWR, or even a duration buff would be great. But while we're on the subject of homages to the old blood DPS spec, maybe a short CD that drains health from your target per swing?

[tblood]

Glyph DRW and it's awesome, just because it uses RP to use it doesn't make it bad. I wouldn't mind it costing nothing but it's fine as it is, imo.

By the time you usually get a chance to use DRW you have plenty of threat anyway. I also usually end up saving it for a defensive cooldown when I need it. Not a threat generating one.

Like I said though guys, we don't need to beat the DRW discussion to death again. This is about a potential replacement.

[Deleted]

and what about instead of 20% parry , 20% damage reduction while the sword is active? i mean it sound more usual , and other tanks have similar skills that reduce damage.

Whit my prot paly i have 3 cds that reduce damage , dont know about dks.

[tblood]

No.
1)DRW is a nice 31pt talent...only thing I'd like to see is an increase to its duration.
2)Death Knights are 2 hander Blood drinking tanks, they're meant to use heavy weapons to smash their foes...dual wielding tanking is dead, deal with it
3)Dks are fun because they're...Dks, not some kind of titangripping Blood warriors.

You really miss what I'm going for... I wasn't a DW Frost tank in WotLK that's just absolutely DYING to DW tank again. I've always tanked as Blood and love the spec and what it's about. I'm not trying to turn a DK into a warrior... I don't even play a warrior. This is using two massive heavy weapons to smash their foes and having a more imposing tank presence. I was looking for something that would add a more spec defining feel to the tree and fill in a couple gaps that I think our current 31pt talent is lacking.

If you have an idea for a better, more well rounded talent than I came up with please share!

[Dessan]

DRW is completely useless as it is, glyphed yeah it's a threat CD, but getting that first 60 rp you might as well get 2 RS's and keep threat early on. It's useless later in the fight.

They never really changed it from when Blood was able to DPS imo, a lot more thought should have gone in to the talent making it cost a rune as opposed to RP or getting rid of the cost all together and giving it a higher CD time, I mean we're barely going to use it more than once in a fight unless there's a threat reset and we have the RP to waste when it's time to start building up threat again, so a longer CD to compensate for no cost would be fine.

And even saying that, it's not like we need that extra early threat. We're fine as long as DPS that don't out gear us by miles go crazy in the first few seconds. I say make it something to do with Death Pact requiring no RP but again increase the CD so it matches how often we can summon a ghoul.

And on that note, when are Unholy getting Hunter like resummons? Silly in PvP sometimes as it is.

[Deleted]

I actually would like to see DK's titangripping - I actually never really liked it on warriors, (though I play one myself); hence why I am happy with arms being a valid pve spec now, and single-minded fury.

[Zao]

DRW is amazing. The only thing I'd like to have changed would be the cost, since the current cost does not allow it to be used freely.

Many people fail to grasp how powerful 20% parry on a 90 sec cd actually is.

[Impossible]

if i could design my own 31 pnt blood talent...

Abomination's Grudge: (1-35 yard range, 2 min cooldown) 1-5 chained hooks extend from your weapon, grabbing the 5 closest targets and pulling them to your grasp, forcing them to attack you. Your armor is increased by 5% for every target pulled, up to 25%. 10 second duration.

[AetherMcLoud]

I really like DRW. 90 seconds is not a long cooldown, and 20% parry is quite a lot. The threat it gives is rather moot with it costing 60 RP though. But that's really the only thing holding it back. As it is now it's a good tanking cooldown (out of our 5 or 6 or so!), if it costed 20 RP or nothing, it would be an awesome tanking cooldown. Costing a rune (blood maybe?) instead of RP would also make it MUCH more useful. Bone Shield + DRW + Outbreak on a boss pull would be awesome.

But I really dig the style of the skill, and wouldn't want any other talent instead of it. Blood as a tree is all about physical strength. Philosophically blood is the "purest" tree, with the least amount of magic (compared to the other 2 trees). A floating copy of your equipped weapon that exactly mirrors all your strikes is rather cool I think, especially as an end-talent for such a tree.

Many people fail to grasp how powerful 20% parry on a 90 sec cd actually is.

I agree. Especially in a word where you're usually sitting around 25% avoidance, 20% parry on such a short cooldown is an A grade cooldown. I use it pretty much on cooldown, as I have it glyphed and I think I can stand to lose the 2 rune strikes while I help my healer(s) out.

[Avatar Killer]

DRW is amazing. The only thing I'd like to have changed would be the cost, since the current cost does not allow it to be used freely.

Many people fail to grasp how powerful 20% parry on a 90 sec cd actually is.

Yes 20% avoidance is actually quite powerful and is so overlooked but with the new mastery change it might actually get the appreciation it actually provides

---------- Post added 2011-02-06 at 04:14 PM ----------

if i could design my own 31 pnt blood talent...

Abomination's Grudge: (1-35 yard range, 2 min cooldown) 1-5 chained hooks extend from your weapon, grabbing the 5 closest targets and pulling them to your grasp, forcing them to attack you. Your armor is increased by 5% for every target pulled, up to 25%. 10 second duration.

An unneeded aoe taunt with a 5% damage reduction to only physical attacks seems pretty weak for a 31 point talent and to top that off it might break crowd controls making it even less desirable

[Deleted]

only way i could see this working was if it was a 2h in your main hand and a 1h in your off hand. you'd then be able to counterattack for example with the 1h, which is similar to a block from a shield user. i'd find this fun and it may encourage me to play my DK as a tank, but it's been the way it has for so long, that most people wouldn't like a big change like this.