Should I be reforging all my gear into haste?

[jahensle]

EJ and many others are saying Haste > Crit, should I be reforging all of my secondary stats (crit/mastery) into the higher valued haste? It feels odd loosing so much crit like that

[kaskadereno]

Int and Hit still come first, obviously....
But to answer your question, yes it would seem you should reforge mastery into hit and then haste after hit cap
then crit to hit/haste as well, depending on what you need you know?
This is from recent sims that model ignite munching......
.....based on what EJ says anyway.

Edit: Potent ember topaz into Reckless Ember Topaz as well, methinks?

[Seefourdc]

Until I see someone prove this with in game logs I am extremely skeptical. There is a lot of debate about the accuracy or lack thereof on the ignite munching on EJ.

[Swizzle]

Until I see someone prove this with in game logs I am extremely skeptical. There is a lot of debate about the accuracy or lack thereof on the ignite munching on EJ.

I'm with this guy. The only time Haste was better than Crit in recent memory was in T8 due to how the 4 set worked, devaluing crit.

[jahensle]

yeah I'm testing out a haste setup tonight, i'll let you guys know how it goes. I typically max my dps and wreck other mages. using 20 int / 20 haste, 40 int gems. Reforging mastery and then crit to haste. Went from 28.50 with molten armor to about 25 % with molten. Gained a shit ton of haste though.

[Seefourdc]

The problem I have with reforging everything to haste is that it hardly provides any benefit. If I totally reforge my gear to haste I only lose .1 second off fireball cast time and I'm guessing that or less off the GCD. Over the course of a fight I can't see that making up for all of the damage you are going to lose for the crit you are going to lose and the hotstreaks on top of that.

**edited to add: I have 836 haste with everything reforged to crit atm putting me at 15% haste full raid buffed. I get the extra tick on both LB and Combustion and from here there really just doesn't appear to be an advantage to boosting haste from where I'm at.

[LoLHellcy]

I'm with this guy. The only time Haste was better than Crit in recent memory was in T8 due to how the 4 set worked, devaluing crit.

Whats more interesting is that their reasoning is that rawr finally accounted for it.... but if thats true, than Haste > Crit through out all of WotLK.... and i call BS on that

[pyrostorm9001]

Whats more interesting is that their reasoning is that rawr finally accounted for it.... but if thats true, than Haste > Crit through out all of WotLK.... and i call BS on that

Crit was > Haste through out all of WotLK this is fact. what has changed is the amount of spells and other stats effected by cata changes.

haste now adds ticks to some spells. increasing its value since wotlk
crit used to cause ignite munch back then too but not in as many ways as it does now. (see the EJ thread on that one)
combustion never used to be heavily tied to crit like it is now.

basically it comes down to what the stats are doing now rather than what they did in the last xpac.

im also expecting EJ to say that you should keep hit 17% crit around 35% mark then reforge for haste. on test dummies this seems to be the sweet spot where i dont munch too much but i get enough HS to keep things interesting.

[Suazo]

It all depends on the gear you have. Import your toon into SimulationCraft and Rawr and it should give you an idea where the numbers are coming from. Right now I'm messing around with my toon and reforged everything into Haste. I'm at 17% Haste and 23.20% Crit and my DPS seems to be a lot lower on the target dummys. I'm actually annoyed now since getting pyro procs will be more of a PITA.

[Nymx]

Its fire guys almost all of our major mechanics are based on crit. Getting to a point where you have a 33% crit and then going crazy with haste is a good idea, anything before then just doesn't seem to make since.

Yeah Ignite Munching Sucks, But whats sucks more is not having Ignite at all.


Hit/Int > Haste to Scap > Crit to Scap > Haste > Mastery
seems to be the way to still go

[Valanna]

I still see the ignite munching function in simcraft as severely faulty. I'm mainly a frost mage and it suggested over 30%(!) of ignite damage to be lost to munching. It's simply outrageous and impossibly true, seeing as the only spells that apply ignite are FFO (1sec between ticks, no risk), FFB and FFB DoT. One scenario would be if a FFB is launched at the same time as FFO is in the air, the other if FFB ticks at the same time as one lands. Seeing as it's not very likely to get FFB procs that close to one another, and that the crit chance of FFO is only 33.33% on a perfectly geared mage, 30% munching seems far too much. It needs to be improved before I will rely on the stat weighs in the new simulations.

[Dacomp89]

I still see the ignite munching function in simcraft as severely faulty. I'm mainly a frost mage and it suggested over 30%(!) of ignite damage to be lost to munching. It's simply outrageous and impossibly true, seeing as the only spells that apply ignite are FFO (1sec between ticks, no risk), FFB and FFB DoT. One scenario would be if a FFB is launched at the same time as FFO is in the air, the other if FFB ticks at the same time as one lands. Seeing as it's not very likely to get FFB procs that close to one another, and that the crit chance of FFO is only 33.33% on a perfectly geared mage, 30% munching seems far too much. It needs to be improved before I will rely on the stat weighs in the new simulations.

They said that for FROST ignite damage was reduced by 30%? I'm pretty sure that number is for fire.

[Valanna]

They said that for FROST ignite damage was reduced by 30%? I'm pretty sure that number is for fire.

That's what SIMC uses in the frost simulator anyway.

[_Fire_]

I'm not to sure about this... I think it may depend on your gear level. Also why doesn't blizzard find a way to fix Ignite munching? :P

[pyrostorm9001]

quote from angayelle on EJ

Soon to come next version of CombustionHelper with Ignite munching report will help people in getting the right number for ignite munching depending of their playstyle. With this value, they will be able to plug it into Rawr and get maybe a more precise information about stats ratings rather than using predetermined values.

http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-...1/#post1863233

[Falaras]

Whats more interesting is that their reasoning is that rawr finally accounted for it.... but if thats true, than Haste > Crit through out all of WotLK.... and i call BS on that

False. The current ignite munching problem is that DoTs crit now and the crits from your low damage DoTs can over write your high damage Fireballs. This did not exist in WoTLK so it's something new to Cata that is finally modeled out. Not to mention Rawr has been valueing haste high for a long time and people didn't know which was more accurate between Simcraft and Rawr, now we know why Rawr valued haste so high.

[jahensle]

well I did more dps tonight but that could be because of our slight buff. I feel like there is a balance between the haste/crit setup (going over haste softcap). I was running 1300 haste in the raid, since then I dropped down to about 1k with 23 % crit, full 359 gear.