Rogue PvP Guide - Gearing/Talents - Subtlety - 4.06

[Chuppa]

To start off I want to say that this guide is being made to assist with gearing and talent setup. I am not going to explain your skills or how to fight certain classes. You have reached level 85 on your rogue I hope you know how to use your skills.

Currently there are two viable PvP specs for rogues (a combat rush down with a 8.9 second kidney is good but not viable imo) at the moment. Subtlety and assassination. In this guide I will cover Subtlety.

Subtlety offers great mobility and great survivability. Maybe less now then it did before with the removal of evasion from preparation but still more than any other spec. 4.06 offered a few buffs that I believe will make subtlety the go to rogue spec. During a dance with a trinket/eng gloves/unheeded proc you will have great damage and great burst.

You want to use a slow dagger mh (1.8) speed and a fast dagger (1.4) oh. You should use crippling on your OH and either wound/mind numbing on your MH. Thrown can be good with any poison but probably best with crippling. Using normal throws with crippling to slow while rooted. Agility and resilience are your two best stats.

Specs:

The highest possible dps spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhfZZsGfcdu0Rho:zmaiks
Disadvantages:
No Imp Recoup
1/2 Nightstalker
Not the BEST survivability

The best tanking spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhdZb...dcRho:azmiskzV
Disadvantages:
1/3 Puncturing Wounds
No Waylay
1/2 Nightstalker
Not the BEST damage

The best balanced spec: (imo)
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhcZbZfGscdu0Rho
Disadvantages:
No quickening
1/2 Waylay
Best mix of damage and survivability

Notes on specs:
With quickening you get a 15% speed boost to run speed. With a boot enchant you get only a 8% increase.
Quickening does benefit from recoup.

Glyphs:

Shadow Dance / Backstab/ Hemo
Garrote / Prep / Blind


Gearing:

You need to have 5% hit for your specials not to miss. Any above doesn't hurt because of NE but you want to stay close to 5%.

You should buy hit pvp bracers, ring, and belt (of accuracy). That will put you at 5% with a few gems/reforging/ and a weapon chain. Your other off pieces should be (of cruelty). With the neck you can choose between mastery and expertise. Both are probably a toss up. It is up to you. Reforge any haste/mastery to crit if you are over 5% or to hit if you are under 5%,

If you have all epic items you can get buy with using hit bracers and hit ring (of accuracy) and gemming for hit. You can buy the of cruelty epic belt.

Resilience is good. Very good. The times of using PvE gear in PvP is mainly over besides the exception of a few items.

Trinkets:

Currently there are a few options. It depends on a mixture if you are human/have engineering. You can not use an on use trinket to stack with the 480 agi glove enchant from engineering. Ideally, you want to be able to have unheeded proc'd and an on use trinket/eng glove up for a dance for extra damage.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=60807 for Non-Humans
http://www.wowhead.com/item=59520
http://www.wowhead.com/item=61033 for Non-Engineers to be used during Shadow Dance
http://www.wowhead.com/item=61047

Professions:

Best two professions currently are engineering and jewelcrafting.
Glove enchant - Synapse Springs
Jewelcrafting for 67 agi / 67 resil gems http://www.wowhead.com/item=52258 / http://www.wowhead.com/item=52267

Gems:

Red Socket: 40 agi
Yellow Socket: 20 agi 20 resil - 20 agi 20 crit - 40 resil
Blue Socket: 20 agi 20 hit - 20 agi 30 stam
Meta Gem: 54 agi +3% crit dmg
Cogwheels: 208 Crit - 208 Resil

Personally, if you choose to use a PvE trinket or unheeded I think you should gem resil. You are losing out on resilience by not using a pvp trinket.

Ignoring socket bonuses and gemming all 40 agi is also debatable.

Enchants:

Head: http://www.wowhead.com/item=68769/ar...icious-agility - Can be bought for 1k honor or 40 Tol Barad Marks
Shoulder: http://.wowhead.com/item=68774 - Can be bought for 2k honor or 80 Tol Barad Marks
Back: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=60663 or http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74247
Chest: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74214 or http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74250
Bracer: http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=96264
Gloves: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74198 or http://www.wowhead.com/spell=44529
Legs: http://www.wowhead.com/item=56550
Boots: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74213 with Quickness / http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74252 w/o Quickness
MH: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74246 or http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74223 if you don't have 10k gold
OH: http://www.wowhead.com/item=55057

I will be adding more links and more information to this in the next few days. Work in progress. And of course this is my opinion. Other things might be better in your opinion. If you have a suggestion for the guide feel free.

[Synexlol]

Looks like a nice thread, thanks for posting.

As for specs, I would go for something more along the lines of http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhbZbZfGccddcRho

I don't think 3 points in HaT is necessary - The crit is always nice though and only requires one point, but there was a second point available and you should get decent use out of it.
Cheat Death is more of a filler tbh, but if you are going to put anything into it, you might as well go the whole way.
Waylay is a waste really, you will be using Crippling anyway for a superior slow.#
I would value Imp. Recuperate and Quickening very high tbh, they are both quite substantial, especially since you will ideally have 100% Recuperate uptime.

Just my opinion really, I don't claim to be very good at PvP (Because I'm horrible), but this is what seemed logical to me.

[Chuppa]

Looks like a nice thread, thanks for posting.

As for specs, I would go for something more along the lines of http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fMhbZbZfGccddcRho

I don't think 3 points in HaT is necessary - The crit is always nice though and only requires one point, but there was a second point available and you should get decent use out of it.
Cheat Death is more of a filler tbh, but if you are going to put anything into it, you might as well go the whole way.
Waylay is a waste really, you will be using Crippling anyway for a superior slow.#
I would value Imp. Recuperate and Quickening very high tbh, they are both quite substantial, especially since you will ideally have 100% Recuperate uptime.

Just my opinion really, I don't claim to be very good at PvP (Because I'm horrible), but this is what seemed logical to me.

Valid points you made. I disagree with a few . I think 3 points need to be in HAT. You need to keep Recoup up all the time for the energy gain and you need points for kidney and evisc. Also you are missng out on 30% crit from backstab. I don't think cheat death is really worth it anymore. Crippling is superior but also dispelled and also can be resisted and can be cloaked off and removed other ways. Since 4.06 dropped Crippling being applied seems far less frequent. I agree with imp recup. and quickening is very nice. Thanks for the input.

[Synexlol]

That's a good point about missing 30% Backstab crit, should have noticed that.

[Elite Peon]

Great guide helped me out a bit that is for sure thanks for posting ...Can you explain priority opening and rotation ..I know you have to adapt to each fight but basially i'd like to know how you approach most fights

[Rukus]

Sticky perhaps?

[Chuppa]

Great guide helped me out a bit that is for sure thanks for posting ...Can you explain priority opening and rotation ..I know you have to adapt to each fight but basially i'd like to know how you approach most fights

I don't want to go too much in depth but I can explain a few situations. Obviously casters/plates/rogues/warriors all have different openings and dependent upon arena fight / setup / strategy it is going to change. Obviously always premed for extra points and avoid cheap shot. You always want to try to get a sap and open with garrote for silence/bleed and then backstab/kidney. Mages are different because of blink which you can premed then garrote then quick kidney shot to force a blink or dance immediately after garrote for damage. Try try try to keep recoup up even at full life with the energy regain and slice and dice for the attack speed. With 3/3 HAT you should have plenty of points to use.

To elaborate more with not using cheap shot is because they can a) blink out of it if a mage and b) it shares diminish return with kidney shot. You can always vanish cheap shot after dr wears off later. Do not get the impression that cheap shot is horrible. Just situational.

[shatter19]

Ideally you would want to catch someone in a full duration KS while dancing with all your procs/trinkets going. It can take a while to set up sometimes but the effect is devastating.

I have also seen 2 different styles of dancing. One is to full out ambush spam even when your CPs are full. The other is to ambush to 5, evis, premed, repeat. I don't know which works out best but they are probably very similar.

Lastly, I have seen 2 different opening style as well. One is to premed -> garrote/ambush, recup. The second is to premed -> recup (shorter duration but gets you the 12 energy tick sooner) for a slightly more bursty opening. I wouldn't recommend spending the opening CPs on anything but recup though unless in a certain circumstance (ie annoying other rogues with premed -> garrote -> hemo (w/ glyph) -> rupture).

[Chuppa]

Ideally you would want to catch someone in a full duration KS while dancing with all your procs/trinkets going. It can take a while to set up sometimes but the effect is devastating.

I have also seen 2 different styles of dancing. One is to full out ambush spam even when your CPs are full. The other is to ambush to 5, evis, premed, repeat. I don't know which works out best but they are probably very similar.

Lastly, I have seen 2 different opening style as well. One is to premed -> garrote/ambush, recup. The second is to premed -> recup (shorter duration but gets you the 12 energy tick sooner) for a slightly more bursty opening. I wouldn't recommend spending the opening CPs on anything but recup though unless in a certain circumstance (ie annoying other rogues with premed -> garrote -> hemo (w/ glyph) -> rupture).

Good input. When stars align Full Duration Kidney with no trinket/no blink, landslide/trinket/procs up/gloves and you don't get cc'd. That can be devastating. You are right they are probably very similar. Thanks for the input man. Definitely interesting.

[hobbez]

Are we talking arena or dueling here? And against what classes?

If arena, then yes, get recup up asap. If you are dueling... there's no sense in wasting your finisher on recup right off the bat (not enough energy regen to justify it). Sap -> Premed -> Garrote -> backstab -> (wait for energy to pool and for Garrote silence to wear off) -> 5pt KS right as Garrote wears off -> pop trinkets/possible dance/etc -> use overflow CP points to get SND and Recup running.

That lets you basically 'start' the fight with them on the defensive and you have all your buffs up and running.

[Avelias]

Much better and more in depth guide: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/18...tarogue-guide/

Your "best" spec should include 3/3 puncturing wounds over 3/3 Coup de Grace. 10% backstab crit is much greater than 6% evis damage.

The neck choice between expertise and mastery isn't a toss up. The expertise neck is a better choice due to so many classes gaining large amounts of avoidance from strength and agility.

[Chuppa]

Much better and more in depth guide: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/18...tarogue-guide/

Your "best" spec should include 3/3 puncturing wounds over 3/3 Coup de Grace. 10% backstab crit is much greater than 6% evis damage.

The neck choice between expertise and mastery isn't a toss up. The expertise neck is a better choice due to so many classes gaining large amounts of avoidance from strength and agility.

Almost every top rogue in the world uses the mastery neck. Reckful uses the expertise neck. That to me is a toss up. Do I believe expertise is better? Yes. I agree with you. Arena Junkies obviously has a great in depth guide. Some people do not visit arena junkies.

I agree with the spec part. I am adjusting that. Thanks!

[electrikfuzz]

If you have energetic recovery, there isn't much point to speccing into relentless strikes imo. You're going to be energy capping, a lot.

[Avelias]

If you have energetic recovery, there isn't much point to speccing into relentless strikes imo. You're going to be energy capping, a lot.

No. Maybe you'll be energy capping if you run around meleeing. But backstab has a large energy cost and more energy is never a bad thing.

[speedoo]

what ech is that from eng´s you talking about. cant see it on my eng, and on atlasloot :/

[Huntrex]

Why always get in a sap?

[Threash]

So you can garrote.

[Chuppa]

what ech is that from eng´s you talking about. cant see it on my eng, and on atlasloot :/

I tried to link it but it is not updated yet in Wowhead. The engineering Synapse Springs can be put on your gloves to increase agility by 480 every minute. The effect lasts 10 seconds. This is great because you can use it at the same time you shadow dance for extra damage. It does however put an "on use" trinket on a 12 second cooldown so you can not use them at the same time. This is why it recommended to use a trinket that procs on its own such as unheeded warning.

---------- Post added 2011-02-12 at 08:26 PM ----------

Why always get in a sap?

You sap to:

#1 Get in position
#2 To assure a garrote
#3 If in arena if you can sap in the open it would be much better for your partners if dpsing/dispelling also.

[fizikz]

why take nightstalker but not quickening in your 'best overall spec' ? isnt a 20% healing increase and 15% movement > 15% movement while stealthed? yes...it's calculated differently, but still...

[sangex]

thanks for posting it ^^