Raiding kind of stinks now

[stgeorge78]

Well, in my third week of raiding and it's just been 20+ wipe nights every single night. These bosses are just not fun, too buggy, too much RNG, just BS mechanics, the healers are tired of it, you have to dance around like a monkey all night, never miss an interrupt, always be in the right place at the right time, it's just too much for any mere mortal to pull off and it's a shame Blizzard decided it was more import to drag content out in this manner.

Normal modes are impossibly hard at the 346 gear level and if you can't kill any bosses, you can't make any progress. Just plain old boring. I don't understand why they didn't put in an entry level raid like Sartharion where a guild can actually go in and have fun and kill at least one boss to get the gear going, or the first bosses in the raids should have fewer than 12 mechanics you have to fully understand (Omnotron) or an impossibly high AOE requirement (after they nerf your AOE down to garbage).

The healers are frustrated because they are horribly gimped and still have to do all the super mario jumping around every 2 minutes, how are they supposed to heal. I'm sure this sounds like whining to high-end players who can pull all this off, so I salute you guys, but for the other 85% of us, it's a pretty crappy raiding scene.

[Emothianes]

1) 20+ wipes would take under 2 hours of raiding, hardly much of a time sink
2) I agree the fights are bit over-tuned, but I would say Halfus is pretty simple to start. Double dragons is also less complex than Omnotron.
3) Funny thing about moving, most of the time you're moving to avoid something that would hurt you so during that short period damage shouldn't be too intense. Furthermore, we have 100k+ HP. Nothing is going to kill you in that time period.

I don't mean to discourage you or anything, but the those bosses aren't that harsh. Just take the encounters slow and steady, you have more time to react and recover than you're probably realizing.

[Kalmah]

Normal modes except for Nefarian and maybe Al'akir are a joke. Gear isn't an issue, we didn't have gear issues when we were raiding the first days with most people still having greens on them...

[Razdornwaz]

Well a lot of the "mechanics" of the fights spawn from stuff that you had to do in previous raid fights such as avoiding standing in the fire and tanks swapping and what not. A lot of these fights take practice. Sure gear does kind of cut dps and heals but that can be compensated with knowing the fights very well and doing what you can to make the fight easier for everyone. Granted a lot of factors come into play too like if your the dps isn't up to par or your healers are going oom fast... are they using flasks, food buffs, and potions? While some may not see the true benifit of this it actually makes a huge difference, especially if everyone uses them. Just like having your gear gemmed and enchanted. It should be a given.

[Healingsara]

I don't understand why they didn't put in an entry level raid like Sartharion where a guild can actually go in and have fun and kill at least one boss to get the gear going

Halfus (even more so post nerf). Even the trash drops epics.

[ed]

Watch fight videos?
Make crafted gear?
Cast instant spells while you "super mario jump around"?

Think about why you are failing.

[Snodgrass]

Really if you're having such a hard time with the first basic bosses you're doing something really really REALLY wrong.
They are not that hard, most of them have been nerfbatted as well (Halfus). As said above normal modes before the last 3 are a pitiful joke

[stgeorge78]

1) 20+ wipes would take under 2 hours of raiding, hardly much of a time sink
2) I agree the fights are bit over-tuned, but I would say Halfus is pretty simple to start. Double dragons is also less complex than Omnotron.
3) Funny thing about moving, most of the time you're moving to avoid something that would hurt you so during that short period damage shouldn't be too intense. Furthermore, we have 100k+ HP. Nothing is going to kill you in that time period.

I don't mean to discourage you or anything, but the those bosses aren't that harsh. Just take the encounters slow and steady, you have more time to react and recover than you're probably realizing.

Wiping 20+ times over 3 hours is not fun at all and just means half the raid doesn't show up the next night and we have to train new people to wipe another 20+ times. It's a never-ending cycle of suck and I'm fully expecting the L2P crowd to show up, but it's just not fun. There is nothing rewarding about these raids other than "it's finally over, I just want to log off".

They built the game for 16 year old xbox twitchmonkeys which also brought their pisspoor attitude which has ruined the community and then they wonder why. When they decide to make a game that normal adults can play, they should let us know. Until then I'll go play another MMO and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[Fidoii]

You're right! I miss TBC :P
I'm more disappointed with how little amount of bosses there are.
IMO, they should instead make more bosses that are easier so most casual guilds can clear through half the raids
For example, each raid have their own mini-tier:
Intro Raid: Throne of the 4 Winds (4 more bosses here) -able to clear easily with just heroic 5 man gear
Middle level raid: Bastion of Twilight (Add 2 more bosses here) -most guilds can clear this place in 5 man heroic gear/with some BoE Epics
High level raid: Blackwing Descent (Good number of bosses) -high level of difficulty requires mostly Epics to clear
And then have each raid drop different ilvl gear.

A little similar to the end of TBC. For hard modes, they could just add really hard achievements you have to complete for each boss of the tier then reward that achievement with titles, mounts, etc. Top guilds of the world would be trying to get the world first achievements instead of first downs.

Blizzard wouldn't have to tune the higher tier encounters to match guild abilities such as Paragon, Ensidia, Premonition, etc.
Blizzard can instead, tune the fight difficulty to the majority of the guilds not in the top 50-100.
Instead, if those guilds wanted to get world first, they are racing for the achievements not who kills what first.

[Blznsmri]

Most fun I've had raiding since Sindy. I didn't even like the LK fight. (mind you we only did norm). I think this shits fun.

[Deleted]

Wiping 20+ times over 3 hours is not fun at all and just means half the raid doesn't show up the next night and we have to train new people to wipe another 20+ times. It's a never-ending cycle of suck and I'm fully expecting the L2P crowd to show up, but it's just not fun. There is nothing rewarding about these raids other than "it's finally over, I just want to log off".

They built the game for 16 year old xbox twitchmonkeys which also brought their pisspoor attitude which has ruined the community and then they wonder why. When they decide to make a game that normal adults can play, they should let us know. Until then I'll go play another MMO and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Meh, I'm 14. And I still downed 12/12 :<
But tbh, not all "kiddos" do act like they were five. Some of us is even mature! Age is not a problem, and it never was. And I'm gettting sick of people who still think people under 16 are retards, unmature and noobs.

(http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ehnus/advanced)

On topic: I started to raid with 344 avg iLvL, and we did not have any problems to down the first bosses (Magmaw, Toxitron and Halfus). Make sure your raid read up on tactics, get the optimal setup for that encounter and BAM, kill. If people aint showing up, and is just bad overall you might considering looking for a new guild. Good luck

[Verdris]

Well, I hate to be rude, but...maybe you're just bad. There's obviously something about the fights you're not getting, because millions of players are downing them just fine. World-First kills were done in greens and blues. The fights obviously aren't the problem, it's the fighters.

[Mortius]

What if normal raids were Naxx lvl easy and heroics piss hard? Would that be better?

[Griearth]

Normal modes except for Nefarian and maybe Al'akir are a joke. Gear isn't an issue, we didn't have gear issues when we were raiding the first days with most people still having greens on them...

Kudos for the awesomely helpful post. I'm sure the OP now feels energized and motivated to scale the brick wall that stands before him.

-OP
What is your strategy for learning the mechanics of an encounter? How are you identifying the weak links in your strategy? How do you address them or mitigate their impact?

I agree that at the entry level the bosses are tough but equally the dps performance requirements are low enough that everyone should have plenty of scope to avoid damage and help the healers do their job.

One piece of advice that has stood me in good stead over the years, measure progress in 'encounter mechanics mastered' not just bosses killed.

[stgeorge78]

Watch fight videos?
Make crafted gear?
Cast instant spells while you "super mario jump around"?

Think about why you are failing.

We had no problem in ICC heroic & Ulduar hard modes, but in those encounters, you could actually lose a DPS and not hit the enrage timer. Your healers could correct the occassional mistake. You could actually what the hell is going on and you had to watch out for 1-3 mechanics on the first wing and 4-6 mechanics on the rest of the wings and about 9 mechanics on Lich King (maybe 1 extra on the heroic modes).

In here, first boss off the gates you have:

Magmaw: requires massive amount of healing and AOE damage (when your AOE and healing are both nerfed to hell)
Omnotron: requires everyone to memorize and fully understand 12 mechanics. Everyone is utterly confused and it's just chaos.
Conclave: never even looked at this fight, but watching the Tankspot video where they describe the strategy for 5 minutes straight of (jump here, jump there, two people jump there, then 2 people jump here, you have to interrupt/jump/turn the boss just right or you wipe). Told me this is not worth my time.
Halfus: ridiculous amount of tank damage & tank gibbing mechanics (90% healing debuffs that stack up in 5 seconds when the other tank has 25 seconds before it clears).

There's only a handful of guilds who've killed any bosses on my server compared to last year where it was close to a hundred by this point (over 50 clearing Naxx). Yes Naxx was easy, but that's what an entry level raid is supposed to be.

Well I'm not going to argue any more about this - not trying to get people riled up, just my opinion that raiding is terrible now and not something me or anyone else I know is enjoying. We're just doing it because there's literally nothing else to do and we have a lot more fun talking about other upcoming MMO's, can't wait for them to get here.

[Dch48]

Well my guild just started raiding Tuesday and we only tried Magmaw--didn't get him. Not an easy fight at all imo.

[Illunis]

Well, in my third week of raiding and it's just been 20+ wipe nights every single night. These bosses are just not fun, too buggy, too much RNG, just BS mechanics, the healers are tired of it, you have to dance around like a monkey all night, never miss an interrupt, always be in the right place at the right time, it's just too much for any mere mortal to pull off and it's a shame Blizzard decided it was more import to drag content out in this manner.

Normal modes are impossibly hard at the 346 gear level and if you can't kill any bosses, you can't make any progress. Just plain old boring. I don't understand why they didn't put in an entry level raid like Sartharion where a guild can actually go in and have fun and kill at least one boss to get the gear going, or the first bosses in the raids should have fewer than 12 mechanics you have to fully understand (Omnotron) or an impossibly high AOE requirement (after they nerf your AOE down to garbage).

The healers are frustrated because they are horribly gimped and still have to do all the super mario jumping around every 2 minutes, how are they supposed to heal. I'm sure this sounds like whining to high-end players who can pull all this off, so I salute you guys, but for the other 85% of us, it's a pretty crappy raiding scene.

The fail is strong, with this one.


As somebody above posted, the only fights that are even decently hard on normal mode, are Nef and Al'akir. If you think raiding is hard at this level, you may need to re-evaluate your performance, and make sure your raids are running at optimal efficiency. From the sound of it there is too much mobility, and not enough people paying attention. Yes if you miss an interupt now you can wipe pretty easily, but if thats the case assign multiple interrupts to one spell cast, even in a 10 man its plausible, out of 2+ people on an interrupt, one person has to have their balls on point.

Its not the raiding scene that is at fault here, its more than likely you, or your fellow raider's, performance.

[Dch48]

What if normal raids were Naxx lvl easy and heroics piss hard? Would that be better?

These beginning raids should be Naxx level.

[Deleted]

These beginning raids should be Naxx level.

Faceroll level? No thank you.

[Deleted]

Normal modes are impossibly hard at the 346 gear level and if you can't kill any bosses

Realms firsts were pretty easy to achieve for us when we had 10 people dinged 85 and doing some heroics together for another day or 2.
Content has been nerfed since then, making 346 easier to obtain and bosses easier/less rng. No bug has affected a normal boss longer then a day or two with regard to progression, so that just comes off as a really embarrassing excuse.