Solution to Tank and DPS dissballance ?

[Fairelight]

More tank specs won't solve anything, the reason why is simply the people who want to tank are tanking, i had a guildy that had a bunch of alts, amongst these alts he had 3 hybrid classes, ALL of them dps. i asked why he simply replied i like to see big numbers. in the end i refused to tank for him i personally don't see why i should be on beck and call for people who have multiple characters and refuse to tank while they expect me to gear up all their toons while it takes me 3 times longer to kill stuff and struggle to get a dps spec. Until that mentality changes there will always be a tank and healer shortage

[Jademist]

Didn't someone post something identical to this earlier this day?

Anyways, here's my two cents:
I'm a healer and a DPS. Sometime I queue up for healing, sometimes for DPS.

Now, there's this one thing I learned when I was a kid that helped me cope with long 20-30 minute queue times as a DPS...and that was patience. You see, with patience, I am not bothered by the queue time because I know that in due time, I will get in. So while waiting, I do my dailies, and go farm, or go on MMO-Champ, or do other things while waiting.

So, I think people should just learn how to be patient. If they just absolutely hate the long queue times, then they should just re-roll a tank or a healer. Many people don't mind it. In fact its better than spamming trade for tanks and healers who are probably off somewhere doing other things...ah...remember those days spending 2 hours in trade/LFG looking for a group to do a heroic, and then spend more time getting to the place just to summon people. Good times...good times...

[itsthemoops]

Make tanks do as much dps as pure dps and that will solve your problem. Theres dps meters and healing meters, but no tanking meters (omen doesn't really count cuz you can't link omen to the whole raid to show how super awesome you are). Shouldn't be too hard from a balancing point of view to just adjust enemy hp as if there were 1-3 more dps in the raid/group. Buff vengeance and make it passive, and somehow make it not apply to pvp since theres gonna be pvp issues.

This will make healer queues instant and tank/dps queues maybe 15-20 minutes long or something.

[Jademist]

More tank specs won't solve anything, the reason why is simply the people who want to tank are tanking, i had a guildy that had a bunch of alts, amongst these alts he had 3 hybrid classes, ALL of them dps. i asked why he simply replied i like to see big numbers. in the end i refused to tank for him i personally don't see why i should be on beck and call for people who have multiple characters and refuse to tank while they expect me to gear up all their toons while it takes me 3 times longer to kill stuff and struggle to get a dps spec. Until that mentality changes there will always be a tank and healer shortage

Fairelight speaks the truth. Just because there's an increase in tanking specs doesn't mean that more people will be willing to tank. If they want to tank, they would've picked a class that can tank in the first place and not one that cannot.

It is all about preference. Not many people like being a tank, or a healer. And that's fine.
I have tried tanking myself and I don't find it fun. Healing on the other hand is something I love to do.

[Clone347]

what about the other 3 specs being able to dps with tanking gear. anyone remember how hard it was to get a tank in vanilla and TBC ? ... nvm don't even know why i brought that thread up... WoW's player base is to big for it's own good and every idea is shunned with "it won't work"...
The issue is not " people don't want to tank" it's "why don't they want to tank " if lets say 10% of the only dps player base doesn't tank for reasons other than- not liking the idea of it, or the responsibility a tank has- those are potential tanks( and less dps ) if the other conditions are fixed.

[Sansnom]

In my opinion, the only real solution is to remove the trinity of tank-DPS-healer in the dungeon. Keep it for raids, but remove it from dungeons. Can it be done? Possibly. Guildwars does not really have the concept of tanking and it works fine enough in that game. Healers are still required but with some alteration in the usage of potions, they could remove the need for a healer.
They could also possibly look at what they are planning for Diablo 3 to support multi-player co-op.

[Jademist]

In my opinion, the only real solution is to remove the trinity of tank-DPS-healer in the dungeon. Keep it for raids, but remove it from dungeons. Can it be done? Possibly. Guildwars does not really have the concept of tanking and it works fine enough in that game. Healers are still required but with some alteration in the usage of potions, they could remove the need for a healer.
They could also possibly look at what they are planning for Diablo 3 to support multi-player co-op.

Except we don't know how well Guild Wars 2's removal of tank-heal-dps will work. And GW2 and WoW are 2 vastly different games.
Until then, the trinity will exist. And I like the trinity. It gives your class/role a sense of importance in a group setting.
And NO, I will not give up being a healer!

[Clone347]

What i think some of the tanks fear is tanking becoming less special well it should get less special. Plus one more tank speck is not, more tank specS, plus it's not really good that only plateres and druids can tank ..... you know it lowers representation due to some people not liking plate and druids.

[Deleted]

ok for fucks sake... I swear if I will se another topic with some kind of miracle fix for long queue times i will run naked around my home screaming like a little orca...

THERE IS NO SOLUTION FOR LONG QUEUE TIME! DEAL WITH IT OR ROLL A TANK/HEALER

AMEN
</thread>

[Fairelight]

In my opinion, the only real solution is to remove the trinity of tank-DPS-healer in the dungeon. Keep it for raids, but remove it from dungeons. Can it be done? Possibly. Guildwars does not really have the concept of tanking and it works fine enough in that game. Healers are still required but with some alteration in the usage of potions, they could remove the need for a healer.
They could also possibly look at what they are planning for Diablo 3 to support multi-player co-op.

Actually i think the solution is to remove LFD, when i was first implemented i thought it was to help people who weren't in guild or know many players find groups and do some content, but with the additional benfits its if you are going to do dungeons then use the LFD tool, and why wouldn't you? dps/heal/stam buff insta port to dungeon, additional JP/VP, much like arena LFD has turned into a solid QQ nightmare, and why? for no apparant reason other than people having no patience and just pure laziness

[Sansnom]

ok for fucks sake... I swear if I will se another topic with some kind of miracle fix for long queue times i will run naked around my home screaming like a little orca...

THERE IS NO SOLUTION FOR LONG QUEUE TIME! DEAL WITH IT OR ROLL A TANK/HEALER

AMEN
</thread>

I am tempted to start a new thread just so to make you do this. Please make sure to record it and post it on youtube for posterity.

[ImNot1337]

ok for fucks sake... I swear if I will se another topic with some kind of miracle fix for long queue times i will run naked around my home screaming like a little orca...

So...tempting...

If you don't post pics, then it didn't happen though. >.>

On topic, I've tossed around the "moving away from the holy trinity" angle in WOW with friends, but the holy trinity model is so entrenched in the game they'd basically need a new game to undo it.

---------- Post added 2011-02-17 at 03:01 PM ----------

I am tempted to start a new thread just so to make you do this. Please make sure to record it and post it on youtube for posterity.

*mind meld*

"Your thoughts to my thoughts...."

[FallenSystm]

Another one of these posts huh? Alright this opinion is coming from a tank stand point, I have played a tank since Vanilla and honestly I feel for people who are trying to tank there way to raiding. It is rather difficult for a tank to be picked up by a even a mediocre raiding guild considering there is only 2 spots (maybe 3 on some occasions) for a tank in a raiding guild. Not only that but the argument that adding another tanking class would fix this problem is not the case, as you stated within your post you don't want to raid tank because it is boring, and I am assuming that is other people playing a class that can tanks' opinion. Unfortunately, the ratio that you listed in 5 mans may be true and that may be the problem you are trying to correct but that ratio is significantly smaller than this within a raid group, and that is the bottom line problem. You don't need 4 or 5 tanks per boss fight and people playing this game know that there chances for success lies in rolling a class with a higher chance to get into raids. Not to mention a lot of people that I know find it more fun to see the big flashy numbers pop up on there screen than sitting in front of a behemoth of a mob and beating him with your shield.

[DraconusIX]

TBH I always thought every class should have at least 1 tanking or healing tree
IF they added a 4th tree to each class in next expansion, here is my opinion on what maybe they should add:

New healers:
Mage - would be like a disc priest, excels in shielding targets, but can heal
Warlock - draws upon demonic powers to link souls together and draw life from demons to humans.
DK - Channels unholy energies to heal targets...remember Dk class in WC3 was an excellent healer

New tanks:
Shaman - Modification of enhance so that it can tank, 1h and shield
Hunter - A BM tree that is true tanking
Rogue - from other games I have seen - duelist/swashbuckler - excels in defensive melee combat through evasion and parry, I'm sure they could get some sort of "increased armor" and "temporary shield" to make up for leather/block through their arts of evasion and misdirection (bladetwisting seems to stand out as a name for a potential tank talent)

Others:
Druid - Separate feral tank from feral dps, make each a separate tree
Paladin - Either give them some sort of "holy paladin that does ranged attacks", a dps class with sword and shield, or a 2nd healing tree
Priest - Give them a holy/disc dps spec
Warrior - Give them an "archer" spec

[Kaeleena]

The solution is to force hybrid classes that are clogging up the dps queue and causing long lines to tank/heal. Give them a basline set of tank/heal gear equivalent to the gear they're wearing for their current spec and give them a trispec only usable inside the LFD tool. Problem solved.

[Jademist]

TBH I always thought every class should have at least 1 tanking or healing tree
IF they added a 4th tree to each class in next expansion, here is my opinion on what maybe they should add:

New healers:
Mage - would be like a disc priest, excels in shielding targets, but can heal
Warlock - draws upon demonic powers to link souls together and draw life from demons to humans.
DK - Channels unholy energies to heal targets...remember Dk class in WC3 was an excellent healer

New tanks:
Shaman - Modification of enhance so that it can tank, 1h and shield
Hunter - A BM tree that is true tanking
Rogue - from other games I have seen - duelist/swashbuckler - excels in defensive melee combat through evasion and parry, I'm sure they could get some sort of "increased armor" and "temporary shield" to make up for leather/block through their arts of evasion and misdirection (bladetwisting seems to stand out as a name for a potential tank talent)

Others:
Druid - Separate feral tank from feral dps, make each a separate tree
Paladin - Either give them some sort of "holy paladin that does ranged attacks", a dps class with sword and shield, or a 2nd healing tree
Priest - Give them a holy/disc dps spec
Warrior - Give them an "archer" spec

Like someone said earlier,
Just because a class receives a new tanking/healing specs doesn't mean people will pick them up.

Again, group roles are all a preference. Many people don't like tanking. I guess until something happens that they do, there's nothing we can do about it. Just because a warrior can tank doesn't mean he would. Same with Paladins who prefer to DPS or heal rather than tank.

I suggest just learning patience. 20-30 minutes isn't too long of a time. You can spend it getting other things done, in game or in RL.

[Fairelight]

The solution is to force hybrid classes that are clogging up the dps queue and causing long lines to tank/heal. Give them a basline set of tank/heal gear equivalent to the gear they're wearing for their current spec and give them a trispec only usable inside the LFD tool. Problem solved.

Force people to do things they don't want to do......... yeah i'm sure that will work........

[Jademist]

The solution is to force hybrid classes that are clogging up the dps queue and causing long lines to tank/heal. Give them a basline set of tank/heal gear equivalent to the gear they're wearing for their current spec and give them a trispec only usable inside the LFD tool. Problem solved.

Why don't we just get rid of the pure DPS classes? That way hybrids who like to DPS and chose their DPS spec because they find it appealing and fun and queue up as DPS don't have to share the queue with anyone else but other hybrids.

[Kaeleena]

Force people to do things they don't want to do......... yeah i'm sure that will work........

The game already forces plenty of classes to do things they don't want to do but they do them to remain viable. Efficient heal spam and high damage CD spam is about as much fun as it gets while they simultaneously juggle all abilities and change their minds on what they want to be viable and what they don't on a daily basis and if they refuse to queue because they have to tank or heal, then you'll still see shorter DPS queues because they won't be there.

[Fizzleshot]

Dungeon queues will never be short for dps until Blizzard requires that all 25 man raid bosses require exactly 5 tanks, 5 healers and 15 dps. Which will never happen.