Nefarian question

[dfa2001]

Having problems,

My raid group just started Nef Wed and got a good 2.5 hours of attempts in. My group consists of;

druid tank on nef
Pally tank on onyxia
Warrior dps/tank
2 pally healers
1 shaman healer
rogue
mage
hunter
warlock

Right now we are running 3 tanks (warrior for adds in phase one due to agro problems as dps) 3 healers , 4 dps. We are not having a problem in phase 1, The problem is phase 2 the healers are almost OOM when phase 3 starts.

So to solve this I was thinking of an idea and was wondering if it was viable.

1. Burn nef down to 62% and push into phase 3 so healers can save some mana. Then pop mana tide to refill the mana used. Then starts step 2.

2. Two tank the adds 3 and 3 so we only have 3 adds up for most of phase 3 to alleviate damage from the adds.

The only question is can we dps him down in phase 3 before the fire overruns us. Our 4 dps that will be on nef are usually between 17-20k on nef.

Well any suggestions are welcome and wanted.

ps we have thought about 4 healing but we dont have another healer that can raid all the time so that is kinda out.

anyways thank you for your responses

[Bignag]

mage goes frost and kites adds

[Brael]

You can't burn nef past 70% before ony dies or she'll automatically do her AoE and 1shot your entire raid, just so you know. If your kiter is good for phase 3, just burn it to 72% in phase 1, ignore Nef in phase2, and kill the adds as quickly as possible, this may or may not work for you depending on your dps in p3. Bit of a bad setup you have there otherwise you could've just CC'd the adds in phase1.

Also, the above poster makes a good point, if you have your mage just go frost and kite the adds in phase1, you'll also have replenishment for your raid, since you don't seem to have it otherwise. This may be part of the reason for your healers going oom.

[Leneson]

While it's possible to use 3 tanks, having one person be mostly useless for a large portion of the fight doesn't help. It's wise to use a dps kite, whether it be a frost dk or mage.

[Deleted]

You can't burn nef past 70% before ony dies or she'll automatically do her AoE and 1shot your entire raid, just so you know. If your kiter is good for phase 3, just burn it to 72% in phase 1, ignore Nef in phase2, and kill the adds as quickly as possible, this may or may not work for you depending on your dps in p3. Bit of a bad setup you have there otherwise you could've just CC'd the adds in phase1.

Also, the above poster makes a good point, if you have your mage just go frost and kite the adds in phase1, you'll also have replenishment for your raid, since you don't seem to have it otherwise. This may be part of the reason for your healers going oom.

When P2 begins, nefarian is always on about 67% in our 10 man group. You can't burn nef past 70% before onyxia dies no, but you can burn him to 70% before P2 begins.

[tawney]

My raid is having the same issues as the op. We have tried using a frost mage to kite, but they either die from getting hit or the adds are split up when they go down in ph1. So we are currently having a dps dk go blood and tank the adds in ph1 so they are grouped up tight. This seems to work very well only problem is our dps is little low cus of this and we are really not able to push a crackle in ph2. Another thing were having issue with is the adds in ph3 seem to move really slow and or stop right when a fire is cast which hits them and they wont deactivate which =dead tank. The tank even tried to keep running away from the adds during ph3 to see if this helped yet the adds still got hit by the fire non stop. This is using the boss in center, ot kite adds around outer ring strat. What are we doing wrong? And we know 3 crackles are best before ph3 but we always have issues with death and or low mana if we push crackle in ph2. How can the tank not allow the adds to be hit in ph3? Is strafing required? the tank was just walking backwards? Thanks and not meaning to hijack this thread..but were having alot of the same issues as the op...thanks

ps-nothing is slowing the adds in ph3...as im sure this would be a question.

[Suliso]

So I only read DPS kiters dps kiter
What about he HPally izmode tactic for phase 1??

1 Heal Pala switches on Righteous Fury so all adds will run to this excact Pala if noone taunts or does dmg to the adds. (I am looking at you DKs)
Put him in mid of the room so he can heal at leats one of the 2 tanks and put Beacon on the tank getting more DMG
As soon as the first adds spawn the Paladin will have them in the middle of the room
Put 1 in the Trap so it won't hit the Pala anymore.
Maybe the Druid can use his Entangling Roots on one so Paladin only has 3 more adds on his ass.
Mage helps the Paladin a little bit with nova and so on.
As soon as the add in the trap lays down instantly put another one in and they all should fall over and no raid dmg was taken.

Paladin can easily heal himself and giving the tank with the beacon decent healing.

This is what we used for the first time yesterday and it worked like a charm.
We tried mage kitting and hunte rkitiing all ds kitting and so on nothing worked that well for us like this tactic.

[reflection]

You can go down to 70% Just Nuke Onyxia down in the moment the electric emote appears Don't do any electric discharges in P2 if your healers have mana problems. If it gets better you can try to do one (we usually do - but first kill we didn't)

[Brael]

When P2 begins, nefarian is always on about 67% in our 10 man group. You can't burn nef past 70% before onyxia dies no, but you can burn him to 70% before P2 begins.

Yes but if their healers are already going oom in phase 2, it's probably unwise to push an electrocute at the end of phase1 as it's like to end up killing people. This tactic is viable to use but dangerous at the same time. If they had a warlock i'd recommend using this tactic as they could Divine Guardian the electrocute and then have everyone use healthstones to get them up faster.

[Deleted]

tip:
Bring a Boomkin if u have one. Even a feral or resto can do the job aswell.

We can root 4 targets at the start with NG and normal Root. It's just perfect for that figth.

[reflection]

Yes but if their healers are already going oom in phase 2, it's probably unwise to push an electrocute at the end of phase1 as it's like to end up killing people. This tactic is viable to use but dangerous at the same time. If they had a warlock i'd recommend using this tactic as they could Divine Guardian the electrocute and then have everyone use healthstones to get them up faster.

There is no face that is less mana consuming then P1, so you should be there as long as possible. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Wilderness]

I think you should have your mage go frost and kite the adds in P1 so that you don't need another tank. It will give you better raid dps for burning Nef down and once the mage learns how to do it they should take little to no damage (especially with a hunter to throw traps down and the fix to Ring of Frost on this fight). That will also give you replenishment, which someone else mentioned already, which will help with mana issues. Make sure you are rotating your healing CDs as necessary in P2 so that you minimize raid damage, particularly if you are pushing a crackle in P2 (which it sounds like you are).

2 tanking the adds in P3 isn't a good idea because you won't be able to group the adds up as tightly as if you had one tank. What that means is that you will have fire spreading in further in more directions which will give you less space to kite. I don't see how 2 tanking the adds will only give you 3 adds up for most of the phase either, since if you split the adds into 2 groups you will spark the 2nd group with fire while you kite, and probably not at an ideal time. Plus you basically have an extra tank sitting around for a lot of the fight not contributing as much as they could as a dps.

My raid is having the same issues as the op. We have tried using a frost mage to kite, but they either die from getting hit or the adds are split up when they go down in ph1. So we are currently having a dps dk go blood and tank the adds in ph1 so they are grouped up tight. This seems to work very well only problem is our dps is little low cus of this and we are really not able to push a crackle in ph2. Another thing were having issue with is the adds in ph3 seem to move really slow and or stop right when a fire is cast which hits them and they wont deactivate which =dead tank. The tank even tried to keep running away from the adds during ph3 to see if this helped yet the adds still got hit by the fire non stop. This is using the boss in center, ot kite adds around outer ring strat. What are we doing wrong? And we know 3 crackles are best before ph3 but we always have issues with death and or low mana if we push crackle in ph2. How can the tank not allow the adds to be hit in ph3? Is strafing required? the tank was just walking backwards? Thanks and not meaning to hijack this thread..but were having alot of the same issues as the op...thanks

ps-nothing is slowing the adds in ph3...as im sure this would be a question.

You really should have your mage go frost again and learn how to kite those adds properly. Especially now that they fixed it so that Ring of Frost works there it should be really easy to get the adds grouped up when they die. That will also help your dps in P3 when you are trying to burn Nef since your DK won't be blood and your kiter will not need to kite for as long as you'd need if your raid dps was lower b/c of the DK being blood.

I don't kite the adds in P3 so I can't speak to that, but there are several videos you can find from the kiter's perspective so I'd advise your kiter to watch as many as he/she can. I do know that you need to keep constantly moving and to not slow the adds (which you said wasn't happening anyway) but that's it. Kiting the adds is really the key to that phase, because your kiter needs to give you enough time to burn through his health. Your kiter might just need more practice at it.

There is no face that is less mana consuming then P1, so you should be there as long as possible. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You can't really choose to stay there for as long as you want, since P1 basically has a time limit in Ony's energy building up. Your dps on Nef will mostly determine how long you are there since 2 crackles bump her up a lot and the 3rd crackle will wipe you if it goes off while she's still alive.

You can push 3 crackles in P1 if you choose to, it just requires very good timing because Ony has to die between the crackle emote and the actual crackle. A frost mage with deep freeze is very good for that if you choose to go that route. It can be easier on the raid to do it that way if you get your healers spread out near their pillars before it happens so that they don't have to move in preparation of the lava and can just heal the raid up from that crackle while everyone else runs to their pillar. Of course then you also have to time that with Ony's abilities so you don't have one of those healers getting stunned right as that happens as well, so it does require some tight timing of different things. We've always found it simpler to just push a crackle in P2 though.

[Azerate]

Ok so about 10man nefarian, you dont need to dps him at all during phase 2. Make sure to interrupt every time an add casts aoe and you should be fine.

When my guild did this we didnt even push him under 70% in p2 but left him at 72% and we didnt touch him in phase 2. We were easily (well maybe not easily with some practice ofc) able to take down that 72% with heroism in phase 3 and our dps wasnt all that great. Just avoid unnecessary crackles in phase 2 and your healers should be fine.

And on kiting issue, we also used our mage to spec frost and do it.

[Shirahadori]

My first nef kill we used the three tank method to double tank adds and successfully killed him with our four dps clocking in at 16-17k dps, but we also dpsed nef some during P2 to get 1 or 2 electrocutes (I don't remember if we pushed to 52 or 62 ) Our 4th dps though was a shadow priest for extra hymns, which helped healer mana a huge amount.

However, our last kill we used our warrior in Fury instead of prot as the backup tank. He just dstance shield tanks the adds in p1 to get them clumped up so we can focus on deeps and getting to p2 asap, at which point he remains dpsing the rest of the fight. The main problem for us was either 1) interrupts & mana in p2 or 2) adds causing havoc in p3 due to weird spawn positions or bringing fire to the ranged/healers.

We generally also rotate raid mana cds for phase transitions, so we pop a mana tide for the first transition, and hymns (if we have them) at the second. You also may need to look at who is taking the most damage during p2 from the shadowbolts, because being able to cut back on required healing helps tremendously. Small things like Raptor Strike glyph, (idk if feint works for it) on every dps helps significantly over the course of the fight. Obviously you can ignore pushing nef down if your healers struggle during p2, but it is probably a problem if you have no wiggle room to.

[oscillator]

We have a similar 10 man comp.
1st time posting so I can't link but a kill vid of ours is on youtube at /watch?v=lSVzLgTAkYQ

The short explanation:
Use your fury war to OT in p1 with a pally healer helping gather adds. With warrior mobility plus traps & earthbind they are fairly easy to heal.
Don't push a crackle until adds go down.
In p2 have 1 platform with a tank, healer, & 1 melee. Kill the adds on the other 2 platforms & push a crackle when the single melee platform add gets low.
Then get out of p2 asap.
At the start of p3 your add tank healer can drink a pot of concentration & regen for a bit since he doesn't have to heal at all until adds start to come back.
Your healers on Nef should still have Mana Tide & a potion concentration plus their personal mana cds will probably come back up.
Also you really only need enough mana to get to the 10% crackle. No point in healing the raid after that.
In the vid I linked I'm pretty sure the p3 add tank healer stopped healing himself after the 20% crackle to conserve mana & let the 10% crackle kill him since the fight ends so fast after that.

tip: Always put a tank on a platform with melee since the adds block & parry.

[tawney]

I think you should have your mage go frost and kite the adds in P1 so that you don't need another tank. It will give you better raid dps for burning Nef down and once the mage learns how to do it they should take little to no damage (especially with a hunter to throw traps down and the fix to Ring of Frost on this fight). That will also give you replenishment, which someone else mentioned already, which will help with mana issues. Make sure you are rotating your healing CDs as necessary in P2 so that you minimize raid damage, particularly if you are pushing a crackle in P2 (which it sounds like you are).

2 tanking the adds in P3 isn't a good idea because you won't be able to group the adds up as tightly as if you had one tank. What that means is that you will have fire spreading in further in more directions which will give you less space to kite. I don't see how 2 tanking the adds will only give you 3 adds up for most of the phase either, since if you split the adds into 2 groups you will spark the 2nd group with fire while you kite, and probably not at an ideal time. Plus you basically have an extra tank sitting around for a lot of the fight not contributing as much as they could as a dps.



You really should have your mage go frost again and learn how to kite those adds properly. Especially now that they fixed it so that Ring of Frost works there it should be really easy to get the adds grouped up when they die. That will also help your dps in P3 when you are trying to burn Nef since your DK won't be blood and your kiter will not need to kite for as long as you'd need if your raid dps was lower b/c of the DK being blood.

I don't kite the adds in P3 so I can't speak to that, but there are several videos you can find from the kiter's perspective so I'd advise your kiter to watch as many as he/she can. I do know that you need to keep constantly moving and to not slow the adds (which you said wasn't happening anyway) but that's it. Kiting the adds is really the key to that phase, because your kiter needs to give you enough time to burn through his health. Your kiter might just need more practice at it.



You can't really choose to stay there for as long as you want, since P1 basically has a time limit in Ony's energy building up. Your dps on Nef will mostly determine how long you are there since 2 crackles bump her up a lot and the 3rd crackle will wipe you if it goes off while she's still alive.

You can push 3 crackles in P1 if you choose to, it just requires very good timing because Ony has to die between the crackle emote and the actual crackle. A frost mage with deep freeze is very good for that if you choose to go that route. It can be easier on the raid to do it that way if you get your healers spread out near their pillars before it happens so that they don't have to move in preparation of the lava and can just heal the raid up from that crackle while everyone else runs to their pillar. Of course then you also have to time that with Ony's abilities so you don't have one of those healers getting stunned right as that happens as well, so it does require some tight timing of different things. We've always found it simpler to just push a crackle in P2 though.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that mage ability now worked well try that. Now i just need to figure out the kiting of the adds better.