The Alterac Valley imbalance, now with 7% units of percantage more facts.

[Hokibukisa]

Whats with this myth that horde has an advantage at other BGs?
I thought all the other ones were either mirrored or command points multi-factioned?

[Deleted]

It's ok if the alliance wins AV, but not when it comes every time I click on "Random Battleground". 8 out of 10 BGs AV is not random. Not even a bit.

[wonshikee]

People might actually agree with you if, in the bigger picture, alliance and horde were winning roughly 50-50, and AV had a distinct alliance win advantage.

But you're really not going to get anywhere or have people care now with the charts showing a distinct horde win advantage (regardless of the cause). So you lose bit more in AV, that dwarfs the advantage in all the other BGs combined

Again, no one knows why horde wins more than alliance in BGs over all. We can only speculate.

Seriously stop QQing? You're crying that you got the cake, and only got to eat 3/5 of it and didn't get all the strawberries on top.

[MasterHamster]

Is it more that AV is unbalanced in favor of the Alliance, or that every other map is unbalanced in favor of the horde? Or, are the horde just better in General?

Horde dominates mirrored maps.
Horde attracts PvPers.

With the vast majority of wins going to the Horde on every other BG, why are you complaining about the one map that is not dominated by the horde? Is this more even playing field ruining your life?

1) It's my favorite.
2) It's not even just because it's the only one near 50-50. If anything it means AV is considerably more Alliance friendly, by breaking the trend by almost 20%. From a average 45:55 to 52:48.

But this is partially why I made the thread, to make people realize an odd near 50-50 breaking all the standards does not mean it's balanced.

I have been in plenty of AV matches where the Horde Wins, if perhaps the percentage was 70-30 in favor of alliance I could agree with you.

You'll never get those kind of numbers when you consider hundreds of thousands, if not millions of numbers.

Even considering the numbers posted are not 100% accurate since they are not from Blizzard, the AV matches for the last year show barely a 2% difference.

What say they aren't incorrect, and that the Alliance win:loss is even better for them?

[...]the AV matches for the last year show barely a 2% difference. "The "Battlegrounds Wins in the Last Year" graph is the only thing you should look at if you want an idea of how things are balanced these days."

Like saying there's no world hunger because the West has many times enough for it's own people.

Essentially the Horde dominate PVP, and on one map things are pretty even, get over yourself.[/QUOTE]

Essentially the Horde dominate PVP, and on one map things are pretty even, get over yourself.

It's not even when the map itself is biased.

People might actually agree with you if, in the bigger picture, alliance and horde were winning roughly 50-50, and AV had a distinct alliance win advantage.

Oh yeah, no one thinks AV is favored towards the Alliance. AV has a distinct Alliance Win rate, that's what the sudden jump of seven units of percentage is. -_-
People need to stop looking at AVs rare near 50-50 and think it's balanced while there's a undeniable Horde dominance everywhere else.

But you're really not going to get anywhere or have people care now with the charts showing a distinct horde win advantage (regardless of the cause). So you lose bit more in AV, that dwarfs the advantage in all the other BGs combined

I seem to be quite successful in getting people to realize a sudden close-to 50-50 rate isn't "balanced" since you have to consider the rest of the data.

Again, no one knows why horde wins more than alliance in BGs over all. We can only speculate.
Seriously stop QQing? You're crying that you got the cake, and only got to eat 3/5 of it and didn't get all the strawberries on top.

I wish to QQ. I don't ignore obvious flaws in design.
If anything, stop polluting my thread with your forum-pride.

[Raugnaut]

There are many more "bottleneck" points where the ally cant go any further if there is a horde there waiting them. Let me see.. Iceblood, only one way in, easily bottlenecked. at Frostwolf Village, at the big tower in the middle, one way in, one way out, lovely AoE. The only effective Bottleneck for ally is the bridge, all else, there are generally 2 paths one can go.

Once you do have the bunkers, they are easy to defend. However, for towers, you have a tiny, tiny room to move in. If you go out, you can easily get knocked off and lose the tower.

You can Graveyard camp the Ally at Snowfall, they are stuck in the middle of a mountain. For all Horde base GYs, except the relief hut, you can go in any direction upon rezzing.

Pretty much, Ally is easy faceroll, Horde is easy coordination. If you coordinate as a team, Horde wins. If you dont, and everyone has no idea what to do, Horde looses.

[Tuvok]

Everyone always said AV favoured the alliance, even back in the vanilla days. I guess Mulverick should've listened to the crying instead of shrugging it off and fleeing to the Netherwing island.

[Raugnaut]

You know, for Rated BGs, when they make Alterac Valley a 10vs10, I hope that we will have more interactions with the enemy base. Has there been anyone who has seen a Calvery call? Champion ranked gaurds? The Ice Lord? Bombing runs?

Let it be that for the Rated AV, you have to use the NPCs to win. No reinforcements, its unlimited. You get in calvery, and the paths on the opposing side are no longer safe for the enemy. Troops, and your paths are patrolled. 4 Champions require at least 7 ppl to down, the bombing runs create complete devastation, the Ice Lord is IWIN mode, and we have the old Lieutenants patrolling the roads. Man, that would be awesomesauce!

[Hexian]

Sigh, after 6 years we are still discussing AV imbalances. Some of your points are right, however, most are also completely refutable. First, the horde cave was pushed back because it was originally much closer than the Alliance spawn point. Balinda has an ice-block...wow, that must be hard to ignore her for 6 seconds and destroy the pet who is only mildly irritating people. Galv has nothing worth mentioning? How bout that fear where if he is tanked somewhat close to the entrance he will reset. True, bunkers are harder to take than towers however bunkers are much easier to defend than towers. Capping a bunker/tower is easy, the hard part lies in defending it against back-cappers. Inc enemies are easier to spot in bunkers, easier to place traps/slows in a bunker, you can easily spread out in a bunker avoiding close melee contact, etc, etc. Horde have the best choke-point on the map hands down (right next to IBT). You could say that the alliance bridge is also just as good, but at that point the Horde can easily control most of the map and win by reinforcements.

I am sorry you cant win every single BG by population imbalances. Just leave AV alone.

And just fyi, AB isnt a mirror. Horde have a quicker path to BS which makes forming the triangle much easier.

[MasterHamster]

There are many more "bottleneck" points where the ally cant go any further if there is a horde there waiting them. Let me see.. Iceblood, only one way in, easily bottlenecked. at Frostwolf Village, at the big tower in the middle, one way in, one way out, lovely AoE. The only effective Bottleneck for ally is the bridge, all else, there are generally 2 paths one can go.

And how often does this happen in uncoordinated games.
How often does the ally swarm gets beaten in Upper Frostwolf due to AoE.
You overestimate bottlenecks. Okay, I'd say SH GY gives the alliance an amazing position to recap IW Bunker, SH Bunker, reinforcing Balinda if she ain't dead, and engaging hordes going north.

But since IB GY is so badly placed in comparison (again, since you have to consider the FACEROLL MINDSET) there's no way whatsoever Horde has equal conditions when it comes to the first GY's usefulness

Once you do have the bunkers, they are easy to defend. However, for towers, you have a tiny, tiny room to move in. If you go out, you can easily get knocked off and lose the tower.

Indeed they are easy to defend. Does that not include the alliance? Since the allies pass SH and IW directly there's a lot more home defenders.
Tiny towers are just an advantage to melee, so what does it matter.

You can Graveyard camp the Ally at Snowfall, they are stuck in the middle of a mountain. For all Horde base GYs, except the relief hut, you can go in any direction upon rezzing.

Sorry, busy fighting elsewhere along with the rest of the Horde team :3

Pretty much, Ally is easy faceroll, Horde is easy coordination. If you coordinate as a team, Horde wins. If you dont, and everyone has no idea what to do, Horde looses.

There's no coordination in a random BG and thus this argument is invalid. I'd love to see rated AVs, then Blizzard would be forced to change it.

[blackangel209]

I am sorry you cant win every single BG by population imbalances. Just leave AV alone.

You're going to blame imbalances in win ratios in battlegrounds where there are a set number of people on population imbalances across servers? I think your brain has failed you.

[Rendandtear]

Idk about you guys, but I can't win an AV to save my life, and I'm alliance. Nor have I won any of the other battlegrounds in quite awhile. Been trying to get Storm Peaking for a good bit and still no luck there, *First win was with my arena team and we carried everyone, Second has always been with randoms and we never win.*

I'm not QQing either. The rest of you that really care about "Balance" and Pvp should just roll shamans. Shaman only pvp... They never get nerfed or buffed so may as well just become a shaman when you pvp so you'll have consistent and bland ... same old same old ... battlegrounds. I mean hey, if raiders have to get stuck with the same fights (Nefarian / Ony) why should pvpers get any special treatment?

[Hexian]

You're going to blame imbalances in win ratios in battlegrounds where there are a set number of people on population imbalances across servers? I think your brain has failed you.

You dont quite understand the significance of Alliance/Horde imbalances when it comes to pvp, do you?

[Cablecow]

you can't let alliance have this 1 BG? you have to win all of them?

its just the fact that they try to deny the fact that blizzard is the reason the allies win , not their skill they try to deny that they have the advantage , op was just proving what most of os already know

[MasterHamster]

Sigh, after 6 years we are still discussing AV imbalances. Some of your points are right, however, most are also completely refutable. First, the horde cave was pushed back because it was originally much closer than the Alliance spawn point.

Horde were closer.
Got pushed back.
It got equal, but the alliance still lost, so it was pushed back again. Suddenly the Horde started losing a lot more in faceroll-games.

Balinda has an ice-block...wow, that must be hard to ignore her for 6 seconds and destroy the pet who is only mildly irritating people.

Damn right it is hard to ignore, once you realize that once again Galv dropped like a rock while Balinda is standing there invincible at 40%.

Galv has nothing worth mentioning? How bout that fear where if he is tanked somewhat close to the entrance he will reset.

I'm sure this happens a lot.

True, bunkers are harder to take than towers however bunkers are much easier to defend than towers.

Once again! I think "defending the bunkers" also includes the alliance. Which are already more likely to BE defending because they pass so near both SH Bunker and IW while ressurecting at SH GY.

Capping a bunker/tower is easy, the hard part lies in defending it against back-cappers. Inc enemies are easier to spot in bunkers, easier to place traps/slows in a bunker, you can easily spread out in a bunker avoiding close melee contact, etc, etc.

So we can summarize that towers favor melee and bunkers favor ranged.

Horde have the best choke-point on the map hands down (right next to IBT). You could say that the alliance bridge is also just as good, but at that point the Horde can easily control most of the map and win by reinforcements.

Stop. Overestimating. Bottlenecks.
People don't fight near IB Tower, or maybe, if IB GY was capped. I doubt that happens a lot. The horde just passes IB GY going north.

I am sorry you cant win every single BG by population imbalances. Just leave AV alone.

What does population imbalance have anything to do with 40vs40 games? Is it the queue times making the hordes lose?

[Nielah]

you can't let alliance have this 1 BG? you have to win all of them?

Sadly, we do not care for the alliance if they do not win (not flaming or hating!) and yes this battleground has been handed to allies since vanilla.
But, who does not remember those day long games, which always ended with 8-10 shamans spaming CLIT across the Dun'Baldar bridge forcing alliance back and ending in a secluded win? Horde has pretty much always been dominating battlegrounds, that's probably the price you pay for playing alliance.

[Tenais]

You're going to blame imbalances in win ratios in battlegrounds where there are a set number of people on population imbalances across servers? I think your brain has failed you.

You actually doesn't understand the point at hand.
your brain failed you

[Eldrad]

Sadly, we do not care for the alliance if they do not win (not flaming or hating!) and yes this battleground has been handed to allies since vanilla.
But, who does not remember those day long games, which always ended with 8-10 shamans spaming CLIT across the Dun'Baldar bridge forcing alliance back and ending in a secluded win? Horde has pretty much always been dominating battlegrounds, that's probably the price you pay for playing alliance.

8-10 Shamans spamming.... WHAT!?!?!

Wow, those naughty Shamans!

[MasterHamster]

Epic acronym.
A lot better than CoC

[Nielah]

8-10 Shamans spamming.... WHAT!?!?!

Wow, those naughty Shamans!

It was inevitable! :3

[Hexian]

Got pushed back.
It got equal, but the alliance still lost, so it was pushed back again. Suddenly the Horde started losing a lot more in faceroll-games.

Its arguable that the current position of the Horde spawn point does or does not put them at a disadvantage so I will just leave this as a moot point.

Damn right it is hard to ignore, once you realize that once again Galv dropped like a rock while Balinda is standing there invincible at 40%.

But it only delays you for a max of 10s, that is completely insignificant compared to the entire battle. Had they buffed her damage to dangerous levels then we would have an argument.

I'm sure this happens a lot.

You would be surprised... It usually isnt the first fear it happens. The first fear puts the tank closer to the entrance and then Mr. LawlDK doesnt move him back and BAM second fear runs him out the door. I would take an ice-block over this nonsense any day of the week.

Once again! I think "defending the bunkers" also includes the alliance. Which are already more likely to BE defending because they pass so near both SH Bunker and IW while ressurecting at SH GY.

There is no merit in originally defending bunkers/towers. They are initially taken by a swarm of alliance and horde players so the amount of players you would need to put in one to successfully defend it would put you at an extreme early disadvantage. However, once a tower/bunker is capped generally (meaning a decent Alliance/Horde team) will only leave 2-6 players behind to defend. This is when you want to back-cap and retake the tower/bunker and this is when bunkers are much easier to defend.

Stop. Overestimating. Bottlenecks.
People don't fight near IB Tower, or maybe, if IB GY was capped. I doubt that happens a lot. The horde just passes IB GY going north.

Stop. Underestimating. Them.
Horde have the only offensive choke-point in the game: IBT pass. This means that a decent sized group can hold off Alliance from ever passing any further south while another group jumps over the hill by the GY and easily caps Alliance bunkers. Every single time I have seen this strategy used by the Horde they end up destroying the Alliance. Dont simply ignore the strat because it is more complex for face-roll teams to use when clearly it is almost 100% effective.

What does population imbalance have anything to do with 40vs40 games? Is it the queue times making the hordes lose?

When you have a higher population of Horde on a server (and given the current trend almost every server will soon have a Horde imbalance) it also means you have a higher population of players who pvp. If you have a higher population of players who pvp on a specific side then when you que up for a bg you are more likely to get a higher quantity of players who regularly pvp in a single bg.