AV has been known to be Alliance-biased since Vanilla. Why would that change now?
Average: 55/45 Horde
AV: 51/49 Alliance
Obviously the other 5 BGs, which are roughly symmetrical maps, are Horde biased.
AV has been known to be Alliance-biased since Vanilla. Why would that change now?
Average: 55/45 Horde
AV: 51/49 Alliance
Obviously the other 5 BGs, which are roughly symmetrical maps, are Horde biased.
By the same logic, higher population = more bad geared people.
That chart posted lastnight is only going to create more forum posts like this..
yay.
And the illusion of imbalance persists to this day. Rarely have I met competent Horde who knew exactly where to choke and completely stop the Alliance.
Here's a tip: It's on your side of the map, and it's a narrow pass near a graveyard.
Learn to use it and abuse it, because it's the best choke and smallest point on the map.
WRONG WRONG WRONG ...the OP and all the people posting in this thread that horde have a disadvantage are all wrong . The reason the horde loses more in AV ?? All horde want to do is gank and get HK's period ...This is how a typical AV goes horde side . They all rush to kill belinda say 60% of the team then maybe 20% go to turtle at galv then there are the 20% who go hk farming right off the bat ...so they kill belinda and slow down alliance a little at galv . Now 90% of horde go back south and try to get hk's instead of going north and getting the objectives ??? Why ..why do they do this everytime ?? The alliance win what a suprise because 90% of there team goes after the objectives and not hk farming .
The mentality difference between the horde and alliance is really funny . Horde only want to hk farm and alliance players typically want to do the objectives.
To clarify what I think some other people are trying to say;
Right now, based on the statistics that are available, it seems that the Horde wins in a majority of cases in every battleground except for Alterac Valley. For the most part, the battlegrounds in which the Horde are winning appear to have no overt advantage to either faction (with the exception of Isle of Conquest). Given the data available, it would be reasonable to conclude that for whatever the reason, the Horde wins more battlegrounds and is "better" at battlegrounds (Using that word makes me cringe, but it is applicable).
Carrying on from the conclusion reached above, it would also be reasonable to expect a similar data distribution regarding win ratio in Alterac Valley, if all other things are held equal. Since this is not the case, and in fact runs counter to what the rest of the data suggests, either the initial conclusion is incorrect (that Horde is "better" in battlegrounds) or another factor has changed that alters our data. Since Alterac Valley is not a mirrored map, and given that there are multiple battlegrounds that are mirrored that redundantly support the initial conclusion, it is reasonable to conclude that Alterac Valley has a factor in it that makes it more likely for the Alliance to win in there.
Christ, I feel like I'm writing to an actual journal right now.
Yeah, that last line was sarcasm. I should have been more clear. Horde are winning all the balanced BG maps. Meanwhile Alliance is winning AV much more often. It actually shows that while 51/49 looks like it's the closest, it actually means it's less balanced. EoTS at 58/42 is actually closer to the norm (+/- 3) than AV at 51/49 (+/- 6). This is in fact not fair to Horde players. It means that they are outplaying Alliance slightly in BGs, but Alliance still win despite being outplayed. Players should be rewarded proportionately to their performance.
Last edited by harky; 2011-02-23 at 01:16 AM.
Cause Galvangar fear NEVER resets the encounter... oh wait... All you need for that to happen is one person overaggroing the tank with taunt on CD that is standing >middle of the room and he will be feared out of the keep and he will reset. A Ice block atleast doesnt reset the encounter.
And just cause you choose to run through the FoS doesnt make the placement of SH bunker wrong. Just run that way insted. No alliance ever defends it cause of its placement, Since we always run West of Balinda.
DB is unbalanced compared to FW that ill give you, but the placement of SP gy is better then FW gy none the less. Easier to build pressure in DB then in FW.
The only reason Alliance wins AV is cause Horde just gives up, when you try to defend towers you always cap SH gy which makes all Alliance spawn at either SP or DB. And you got a slow game running on reinforcements. Just do it right. Defend IB and TP towers, and let alliance have SF and SH gy. You win 80% of the time. And if you wanna increase this number go defend galv. Force the tank to stand close to the entrance and make him blow he's trinket. And Galv will do the rest, ie fearing the tank outside and resetting...
Blame the horde for placing their towers like that. /rp. It's been 5 years since AV's been out I think, surely each faction has figured out the best way to win. There's no imbalance, it's just different for each side.
I was going to say the same actually, by luck I took some time to read.
You guys are clearly QQing over something that doesn't to be QQed. Hordies are clearly winning majority of BGs and for once, alliance have a chance to be EVEN with the horde, if not still a bit under. Imo all BGs should be this way, sadly, they aren't. So get over it, you're not a 5 years old kid. Now if you were speaking of alliance beign in disadvantage I would then say it's a good topic.
Google Diversity Memo
Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA
Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
[...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..
idototems, do you dispute that the data available to the player base supports the idea that (for whatever reason) the Horde is, in general, winning more Battlegrounds than the Alliance? I'd like to make sure we're even talking about the same thing before we discuss the matter.
If that is the case, then do you also agree with the idea that the Alterac Valley win ratio is a significant outlier, and runs counter to the idea that the Horde are winning more battlegrounds?
If both of these things are true, them one can conclude that regardless of what specific reason (Whether it be the Tower differences, the geography, or whatever else one can think of) Alterac Valley has some factor that makes the Alliance win much more often than the data would expect. I'm assuming that the players of these battlegrounds are the same (i.e., there is not a specific section of the population that never/only enters Alterac Valley), and if the players are the same, there must be some factor in the battleground itself.
EDIT - Freedom4u2, please look at my initial post for why this is a problem. Actually, to be frank, there are two problems. To be honest, the Horde should not be winning a clear majority of mirrored battlegrounds to begin with. However, there is no clear reason for why this is the case. In the meantime, it would be worthwhile to make sure that both factions are at facing each other on equal grounds.
Last edited by GoblinSnowman; 2011-02-23 at 01:24 AM.
Amusing.
The battleground where all else is equal is the one you bring up.
Where there's less than a 4% spread.
So why are we discussing the one BG where alliance are favored in comparison to this...
and NOT all the battlegrounds where they suffer greatly in win %?
Doesn't it stand to reason if non-skill based factors are, as the OP claims, making it difficult for horde in Alterac, that the reverse MUST hold true in all the OTHER BG's where it seems the alliance is encountering difficulty? (because, like YOU said, if it differs greatly from the results of the "purely even" setup... then something must be unbalanced about them... maybe not to the extent of Alterac... but there's also a lot more of them...)
Yes, Horde wins most BG. And its cause they outplay Alliance.
But the reason they are losing AV, isnt cause of map imbalance. Its merely cause they give up in AVs and rather farm kills then doing the objectives.
I play alliance, i have a positive win ratio in all BGs, except AB. The Eots number is the one that confuses me the most, i won 77% of the Eots ive played. The others are more close to the numbers for all players, except that alliance is favorable from my stats. (and no its not cause im a amazing player, more of the fact that when i do pvp i play with 3-4 of my friends and we usually manage to make the rest do what they should be doing)
av is fine, angry horde is angry and hordie..
Nothing to see here, not sure why i posted.
Reason why alliance win this one more than other battlegrounds, is because this has become a PvE battleground. Where the horde is clearly better at PvP in average, alliance is about equally "good" (don't know if i should call the total chaos there "good") in this PvEable battleground. Now if you had something against this battleground, you should complain about the amount of pvp needed to win: none.
Excellent contribution to the discussion. I appreciate your rare candor and wit, and look forward to crossing words with you again, worthy foe!
I'm of the mind that it is not worthwhile to start examining specific reasons for why Alterac Valley is standing out as an exception before we can even come to a consensus as to whether it's an exception at all. Rather than retyping what I've already stated twice, I would direct people to read my earlier posts (on page three), and see if they disagree with my reasoning. I understand that asking for reasoned, scientific discussions on the internet is somewhat....dumb, but I would like to see what people think.
I think you're confusing something here.
AV "imbalance": Alliance wins in the last year, just over 50%. Horde wins in the last year, just under 50%.
Eye of the Storm: Alliance wins in the last year, 42%. Horde wins in the last year, 58%
AV: Less than 1% difference in victories.
EotS: 8% difference in victories.
Thus, AV: Statistically more balanced than Eye of the Storm. (I picked Eye because it's the biggest difference. The same is true of all the other BGs, but to a lesser degree).
You DO realize that we're talking about PvP here, as in Player versus Player?
Killing a few NPC's and destroying some buildings have nothing to do with PvP. Alterac Valley have turned into a PvE encounter with dynamic resistance. Hell, you'll even MISS on Drek'thar / Vanndar if you don't have 17% hit rating.
Now, if the objective was to kill a specific enemy PLAYER rather than a NPC, then I'd call Alterac Valley a PvP encounter.
In fact Alterac Valley should be something like this:
1 player gets promoted to Commander.
1 Player gets promoted to Captain.
4 Players gets promoted to Lieutenant.
Commander:
+1500% HP
+100% Mana, Energy or Rage
+75% damage
Size increased to 400%
Carries a Red/Blue banner (Horde/Alliance)
Aura: +20% damage to all nearby, non-promoted allies within a 50yd radius.
On-death: The team loses
Captain:
+750% HP
+50% Mana, Energy or Rage
+50% damage
Size increased to 300%
Carries a Black/Yellow banner (Horde/Alliance)
Aura: +20% healing done to all allies within a 50yd radius
On-death: All non-promoted allies within a 50yd radius regain 200% of their maximum HP over 20 seconds.
Lieutenants:
+500% HP
+25% damage
Size increased to 200%
Carries an Orange/Green banner (Horde/Alliance)
Aura: Reduces damage done to all promoted allies within a 50yd radius by 10% (stacks)
On-death: All non-promoted allies within a 50yd radius gain +10% damage for 30 seconds
When a promoted player dies, that promotion is gone for good.
This will basicly turn Alterac Valley into one giant skirmish, where the objective is to kill the enemy Commander and his/her Captain and Lieutenants. Just like it is today, but with Players taking on the role of Drek'thar/Vanndar, Galv/Belinda and the 4 Marshalls.
The following will be key to victory:
1. Staying together as a single army
2. Protecting your promoted allies
3. Killing off promoted enemy Lieutenants
Just created an account to add my 2c.
From personal experience, and from hearing the complaints of friends and forum goers, this win disparity could be because of population imbalances. A significant number of my AV losses come from the match starting with around 38 alliance to 24 horde or something similar, not getting to 40v40 until the game is almost over. Obviously Alliance are going to win in a situation like that (surprisingly not always though). Being 40v40, this BG is more susceptible to team imbalance. Isle of Conquest, being the "newer, shinier" battleground might not have these problems. Also due to the perceived imbalance, more alliance may sign up for AV, and more horde probably avoid it, compounding the problem.
Even though I personally feel that Horde have an advantage in this BG (as said earlier, defend then counterpush is the way to go).
This is just my experience anyway, but it's happened enough that I really can't trust those statistics.
Last edited by Tibro; 2011-02-23 at 03:03 AM.