WoG on 20 sec coodlown in PTR

[Malthanis]

finally the ret paladins in arena will stop healing like crazy.

This was needed.

As a holy paladin i'm more than happy that this huge heal is pretty much a holy spell now.

wot wot

When they released the spell, they kept talking about how it would be Ret's self-heal, and how it would be a great defensive tool for Prot. So this being relegated to a Holy Paladin ability is kind of against the reason they created it in the first place.

True, Blood DK's are more OP in terms of selfhealing, but that doesn't mean that a nerf to the prot pally selfhealing is a wrong move. You should expect blood selfhealing nerfs to come with it soon on the PTR. Still, the WoG nerf to ret is rediculous.

Blood DKs are supposed to be OP with self-healing. That's the entirety of their tanking mechanic.


As it stands, this is effectively a Prot survivability nerf. It has some rather heavy repercussions, though. Guarded by the Light will most likely need to be changed. An overheal shield won't see the light of day with a 20 second CD on WoG. Holy has no issues with this, as one of their mastery buffs negates the CD. This is a massive blow to Ret survivability, which was low in the first place.

[Ununoctium]

Blizzard love all classes. If not, why bother adding them to the game and spend so much time trying to balance it out? It's only fair that the different melee classes have different roles.

Like a rogue can stealth and CC alot while using CP's to heal.

A warrior can charge and is very mobile while passively healing, and with a single 30% heal while enraged.

A DK makes other people immobile by slowing in different ways and death gripping while using healing abilities without cooldown and being able to sacrifice their pet for selfheal.

Shamans can slow, use ghost wolf, use spirit wolves (which also heal), and they have tons of gadgets in terms of totems, but only one stun from wolves, and they can heal just as fine as ret pallys.

Druids can stealth, stun, charge, tank, heal, slow. A bit of everything.

Paladins, however, can't slow, can't charge, can't control their opponents, and now they soon can't heal for shit (even though they're already lowest on selfheal of all the melee classes).

[Amagh]

Other classes such as warriors dks and rogues can do just as much healing without giving up dmg yet when a ret uses wog I have to think 30k dmg or 30k heal then yet warrior just smashes keyboard and gets 30k of both, blizz= retarded

Indeed... as warrior self heal is absolutely ridiculous...
Lets list some of their heals shall we?
1.Second Wind (talent, requres warr to be immobilized to proc, heals 5% (6.36% with field dressing) of our total health over 10 sec)
2.Blood Craze (talent, 10% change to proc off any damage the warrior takes, heals for 3% (3.816& with field dressing) of our total hp over 5 sec)
3.Enraged regeneration (requires enraged, heals for 30% (38.16% with field dressing) is affected by fury's mastery)
4.Victory rush (heals for 20% of our total health (35.44% glyphed and with field dressing, requires us to land a killing blow on the target.
So only way a warrior can get instant +30k self heal is to use victory rush (glyphed atleast) on a target... otherwise we have very limited self heals.
Note that i'm unsure if you're trolling or something and this is solely from warrior point of view. Rogues feel free to address your opinions on the matter

[Zhalseran]

As a prot paladin who has gone way out of my way to buff WoG as much as humanly possible with talents and glyphs, this makes me very, very sad. My self-healing has become one of my favorite aspects of my Paladin, and even with all the healing choices I made, I never thought it was overpowered...

This is of course very very early so we can hope to see some iteration but I'm pretty scared that we are in the crosshares. Of course a 20s cooldown doesn't mean we could never WoG, but it still cuts down how many we can use by as much as ~70% near as I can see. Frankly that makes me a little scared what my survivability is going to look like.

Even beyond that though, I think I would just feel really lame hitting my other HP options. The damage I put out is largely inconsequential, I don't need the threat. At least as it is now we still have a choice, hell I still use the odd Shield of Righteousness if I have a Sacred Duty proc.

The only thing I can think of is, if they give us a talent that gives a sizeable buff to WoG's healing, I think that would be acceptable. That way the heal would be used more situationally rather than spammed every possible chance, but still be powerful.

[Ununoctium]

Indeed... as warrior self heal is absolutely ridiculous...
Lets list some of their heals shall we?
1.Second Wind (talent, requres warr to be immobilized to proc, heals 5% (6.36% with field dressing) of our total health over 10 sec)
2.Blood Craze (talent, 10% change to proc off any damage the warrior takes, heals for 3% (3.816& with field dressing) of our total hp over 5 sec)
3.Enraged regeneration (requires enraged, heals for 30% (38.16% with field dressing) is affected by fury's mastery)
4.Victory rush (heals for 20% of our total health (35.44% glyphed and with field dressing, requires us to land a killing blow on the target.
So only way a warrior can get instant +30k self heal is to use victory rush (glyphed atleast) on a target... otherwise we have very limited self heals.
Note that i'm unsure if you're trolling or something and this is solely from warrior point of view. Rogues feel free to address your opinions on the matter

The reason why warriors heal too much is that almost everything is passive. You can do full damage and still heal alot.

A warrior with 125k hp (pretty standard) heals 8k health every time he is immobilized, and 4,8k every 10th time he's hit. That leads to alot of selfhealing. And if you're in trouble, you can just pop zerg rage and heal for 40k.

Word of Glory heals for about 15k, and TV hits for 30k. So 30k dmg or 15k selfhealing is our choice. To be the slightest bit able to keep up with warrior damage, those 3 HP should go to 30k dmg, and then we got no selfhealing at all. So yes, your selfhealing is a bit OP.

[Synbaby]

WoG is too op for ret in pvp, period

[marinos]

WoG is too op for ret in pvp, period

Yeah i can top myself with a 3hp wog even if i'm really low on hp....
/Sarcasm

[xBloodchargedx]

it's funny they nerf WoG but buff Recuperate /sigh

Combat

* Recuperate now restores 3% of maximum health, up from 2%.

They buffed recuperate to compensate for the nerf to improved recuperate.

[Ununoctium]

WoG is too op for ret in pvp, period

As opposed to all other melee classes who heal more?

[xBloodchargedx]

Other classes such as warriors dks and rogues can do just as much healing without giving up dmg yet when a ret uses wog I have to think 30k dmg or 30k heal then yet warrior just smashes keyboard and gets 30k of both, blizz= retarded

Warriors do give up damage for choosing to use Victory Rush/Enraged Reg...it's called GCDs, also the only time we can use Victory Rush is when we get a killing blow. And Rogues, you have to use up all your combo points to keep up Recuperate.

[rockerguitar]

blizzard makes calculations with an abaco, they sucks at maths... they don't have any idea how to balance their own game...

[JayJay09]

For Ret this is just completely out of line. 20 sec cooldown (besides having to leave out TV or INQ) in order to get 15-17k non crit heals. Hell yeah. Plus Sacred Shield internal cd has been doubled. So wtf? I hate it when Blizzard throws off Patches on the PTR without explaining a SINGLE BIT of their intention or where they are heading.. First thought always is "the world collapses".. And this feeling lasts until Blizzard finally adds new patchnotes or releases this nonsense in order to revert it the next patch or simply accepting the fact that quite a bunch of paladins die inside quite a bit. This game is pissing me off so hard lately.. All this patching all the time.. It's an everlasting beta and when I finally like playing my class or figuered out where its niche is.. They destroy it again. I really consider quitting this game for good. They are simply redoing old content anyway (Zul Aman, Zul Gurub.. /yawn). But what about my ingame buddies? /sadface...

@ Synbaby: Just.. leave. Don't pretend you had a clue.

[Xucuroz]

Ehh. I could understand it for Prot, i mean, i was using it rather than SotR but then again. For ret this will affect PvP a lot, where survivability is already sketchy at best. I don't personally buy Blizzards reasons behind it, it seems like a pretty lame excuse to bring down the nerf hammer. One of the only reasons i liked holy power was because it gave you a choice of what to do. Either damage or healing, not both at the same time. You made the choice of what to use it on. Once again, Blizzard are removing something and making it even more bland.

[Palaplu]

it's just reason number 1,354,776 of why PvP is destroying a perfectly fine game

AND the other way around.. they said: dk's need to be better tanks, so now we see blood dk's in pvp, not dying at all

---------- Post added 2011-02-24 at 04:18 PM ----------

WoG is too op for ret in pvp, period

you smell like a warrior to me
the man actually had a point, we have to make the CHOICE: damage OR healing (without procs and cds)
warriors just heal automaticly

they should nerfed WoG only under effect of Zealotry, or nerfed selfless healer a bit.
Getting pretty tired of retris not being viable in pvp, we were (kinda) viable for a week or 2-3, now we get nerved again.
Face it ppl, bubble got nerfed, Art of War got nerfed, HoF got nerfed... stop nerving pls

[Gallahadd]

well this make Eternal Glory rreeaallllyyy bad, not only can it now only proc once, but even if it DOES proc, it can't be used for another WoG... I STRONGLY doubt that this chance will make it live without prot being compensated in another way.

also this will TOTALLY screw low level prot pallies, who have nothing else to spend HP on, till they learn ShoR at (40?)

[Vaka]

I think the point that most of the people that are up in arms about this massive nerf are trying to make is this: All other dps or tanking classes/specs that can self heal do it either passively or as a byproduct of their damage. Paladins (ret/prot), on the other hand, self-heal at the cost of dps.

[Prentice]

These changes just freed up 7 talent points from my PvP spec. Now my PvP spec will be the same as my PvE spec.

[adilina]

Nerfing prot because ret heals too much in pvp is plainly ignorant and irresponsible. I doubt this change will go live. I hope Blizzard is just trying to swing extra distance to see how big the impact can be. However, I could be wrong as Blizzard is acting cheap on players recently. One example would be buffing mind sear by 15% followed by an immediate 8.3% nerf on overall shadow damage on shadow priests. So, don't provoke the true gods, they could easily put the cd to 30sec.

[Lyese]

Couple of points to consider here.

A) This is datamined. It is by no means definite, such as the datamined CS in 3.2 or a few nerfs that never saw light of day. Wait until it's in blue, not in green, before crying about the sky falling. Even better, wait until it's live.

B) Prot self healing was already OP. Between the lowest physical damage intake and the second best self healing, prot tanks, even in welfare gear like mine, were basically self sustainable brick walls. I have solo'd most bosses in heroic 5s, and others I don't even need a healer if the dps is around 12-15k or so, which isn't unusual anymore. Hitsurugi has it right when he says DK self healing is supposed to be godly, but ours isn't too far off on top of a nearly passive 40% PDR. I will say that the nerf to Ret is harsh, if it goes through, and unwarranted.

[Prentice]

Nerfing prot because ret heals too much in pvp is plainly ignorant and irresponsible.

You're kidding, right?? Prots spamming WoG were just as guilty as rets using WoG on their PvP partners.

Couple of points to consider here.

A) This is datamined. It is by no means definite, such as the datamined CS in 3.2 or a few nerfs that never saw light of day. Wait until it's in blue, not in green, before crying about the sky falling. Even better, wait until it's live.

The blue post is on the front page. Feel free to read that page again.