Welfare epics inc?

[roguetank]

5 Man heroics now giving epic level loot in 4.1?

Do you think this is a positive or negative step?

I'm kind of happy, because that means the price of maelstrom crystals will drop significantly and i can get my gear enchanted to the fullest, but at the same time, epics will go right back to not meaning anything.

I saw a character in full epics a few weeks back on my server and sat there in awe, come 4.1, every pug that can run ZG and ZA will have epics.

I personally am not sure how i feel about this, how about you guys?

(If this has already been posted please delete this, i checked the first 8 or so pages with nothing.)

[Falarson]

Instead of purple color you'll have higher numbers. Epics never meant anything in the first place

[Conceptx]

I dont think we'll see the same amount of Welfare Epics we all did in WotLK, yet. But rest assured that people will be getting towards higher gear levels faster with these new instances.

[Deleted]

Tbh it really makes no difference, if people put in the effort to run HC dungeons then they will have the best gear possible from that, the fact that the new ones give epics just changes the colour of some of their gear.
Raid epics will still be higher iLvL thus better items.

[Belloc]

People already can't clear current heroics -- what makes you think they'll be able to handle the 4.1 heroics?

Also, justice points will be used to purchase current valor point gear. That's where welfare epics will come on -- not the new heroics.

Furthermore, who cares? It's just a color. While everyone is bitching about welfare epics, I'll be wearing 391 gear.

[shogunman]

I think its nice considering 65% of my guild that i raid with, have been raiding with are mostly active military and have recently been deployed so it will be nice to supplement some epics without having to pug a raid yeah its cheating but its better than pugging a raid with people who don't know what they are doing. (i mean to do the new dungeons with guildies)

[Chiruru]

Seriously?
You need to be fully equipped in 346 to get epics, and only TWO freaking instances drop them. PLUS they are iLvl 353, the "old" raids drop 359 iirc.
How can you even complain about that?
Because the old raids aren't going to be easier farmable with the new raid?
Also I like the term "welfare epics" when you haven't even seen a glimpse of the new instances.

[Sylla]

It has literally been this way since patch 3.1 in wrath. I really don't get why people are suddenly surprised that the gear from the new heroics will be equivalent to this tier's raids.

[Naix]

Such is life. Get something and something better will come along.

[Xuany]

I'm not even sure why it bothers people. The people it bothers are those whiners or raiders. If your a raider you won't even notice because you'll be running those heroics regardless and replace those heroic items from your raid that week or the week after. Those who don't raid it won't get them into a pug raid any faster or clear the raid for that matter, still a great deal of coordination to be done in raids were regardless of your gear it won't carry you to victory.

[Yorkshire Geek]

5 Man heroics now giving epic level loot in 4.1?

Do you think this is a positive or negative step?

If you didn't know when you bought Cataclysm that this was the model then you haven't been paying attention. Once 4.2 arrives tier 12 level epics will be available from 5 mans and almost certainly for justice points, this is how the game works now. It works better than any other model they've tried, hard stuff is still hard but more people get to see more content and that's really the point.

[redmund]

You seem to have forgotten that the current valor point gear will become justice point gear instead, so even without the two new dungeons, players would still get a fair number of epics. There are also zero indications of how these dungeons will be itemised, or how many bosses will be in each one. It's perfectly reasonable to think that there won't be full sets for each armor class, along with trinkets, weapons and jewelry. I'd take a guess at 2 to 4 items for each of the main armor/primary stat combinations, and MAYBE a trinket each.

Frankly, it doesn't matter a hoot. Why should you care what colour somebody else's gear is? Is it stopping you from having fun? I didn't think so. Let the newer or more casual players have their purples. They still won't even be as good as the current T11 non-heroic epics.

[JeKv]

The color of the text hasn't affected item budget for a long time. Item Level is all that matters.

[marjak93]

I just wish that they would keep epics as the highest level of loot, like it's now. What they should do in 4.1 is to make all non-heroic epics (iLvL 359) blue, but keep the item level. The new loot from firelands and the heroic loot from BoT, BWD and TotFW will still be epic. Also they should ofc not make the loot from ZA and ZG epic, but blue iLvL 353.

That way it would still mean a bit to have epic gear.

[Gurbz]

5 Man heroics now giving epic level loot in 4.1?

Do you think this is a positive or negative step?

I'm kind of happy, because that means the price of maelstrom crystals will drop significantly and i can get my gear enchanted to the fullest, but at the same time, epics will go right back to not meaning anything.

I saw a character in full epics a few weeks back on my server and sat there in awe, come 4.1, every pug that can run ZG and ZA will have epics.

I personally am not sure how i feel about this, how about you guys?

(If this has already been posted please delete this, i checked the first 8 or so pages with nothing.)

Well, we knew this was going to happen from the beginning. Plus, it's not quite as welfare as WotLK was. The minimum iLvl of 346 to get into the new heroics means that someone couldn't just ding 85 then go straight into these heroics and get epics. They would have to spend some time doing the normals/easier heroics and get a fair amount of gear that way first.

I think it is the best compromise that Blizzard has come up with for this so far. It is much easier to catch up to current content in terms of gear, but at the same time it is not being completely handed to you.

[Constantino]

Heroics are designed to gear people up. If you had to run tier 11 raids to get geared for tier 12; you'd pretty much block out any non progression raider from participating...

Not sure why the surprise, this thread gets made in every expansion.

[boseguy22]

Hold up now, the "welfare" epics have a couple stipulations. They need 346 ilvl just to queue for, which will still require some work.

Also, the ilvl on the welfare is 353, not 359. They will not be as good as what we currently get from raiding. It will help people get ready to raid a little faster but they will still not be as competitive as a raid geared player.

[Lucetia]

5 Man heroics now giving epic level loot in 4.1?

Do you think this is a positive or negative step?

I'm kind of happy, because that means the price of maelstrom crystals will drop significantly and i can get my gear enchanted to the fullest, but at the same time, epics will go right back to not meaning anything.

I saw a character in full epics a few weeks back on my server and sat there in awe, come 4.1, every pug that can run ZG and ZA will have epics.

I personally am not sure how i feel about this, how about you guys?

(If this has already been posted please delete this, i checked the first 8 or so pages with nothing.)

You also realize the epics that drop from the instances have a lower iLvL than the craftable epics and reputation epics? Meaning they don't have the same "epic" value as the ones currently in game do.

[Obsolete386]

Blizzard was pretty clear on not wanting people to have to go through every level of raiding to get to the current level. They stated as much when they talked about attunements and the reason they don't want to use them in the future. This, along with all the current Valor Point gear moving down a notch and being available with Justice points can mean that people who are behind, or alts, can gear up without too much effort (to the point where they can hopefully tackle the latest raids).

[Herrenos]

I am 100% in favor of these 5-man epics.

They're weaker than current-tier raiding epics (ilvl 353 not 359)
They will be much weaker than next tier raiding epics (likely to be 385 and 398 if the 13-points-per-tier model holds true)
And most importantly: They will crash the market on maelstrom crystals. Thank god.