Intel Thunderbolt

[14fighter]

A new technology Intel has released on the new Macbooks first.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-20036033-76.html
Kinda sucks since I just got a new computer and i'd have to get a new motherboard to see this in action. Oh well we'll see how it goes. Just thought i'd share.

[Jaarh]

I'm wondering how it compares to an eSata connection.

[vesseblah]

I'm wondering how it compares to an eSata connection.

Faster than anything else available currently for home computers.

But Apple has a track record of betting on wrong connectors. They also were the first and last company to have firewire on every computer, and it never really got much attention at homes either. LightPeak, or ThunderBolt or whatever they want to call it is probably doomed for the same professional AV use where FireWire is also buried today.

[muCephei]

I'm wondering how it compares to an eSata connection.

ThunderBolt is somewhere around 10GB/s, SATA III is around 6GB/s

[Wries]

ThunderBolt is somewhere around 10GB/s, SATA III is around 6GB/s

And an external disk is usually nowhere near maxing out SATA II even, so I wouldn't worry about it for that kind of usage.

[Xuvial]

Not interested because I'll probably never run into any devices that are compatible with Thunderbolt.
Hell, I don't think I've seen a USB 3.0-capable device yet. Ipods, video players, external drives, etc are still running at USB2.0...or eSata (2.0) at best. The only reason you would have SATAIII or USB3.0 on your motherboard today is to be futureproof lol, or to run a next-generation SSD like Crucial C300 or Vertex 3.
Check out Vertex 3's reviews btw, Anandtech's already done one. Although it won't be released for atleast another month, it's a pretty sick drive that wipes out other sata-based SSD's

Is Apple really responsible for Firewire? I swear it's the most useless port in the world, and for some reason Sandy Bridge motherboards STILL come with it.

[Wries]

Is Apple really responsible for Firewire? I swear it's the most useless port in the world, and for some reason Sandy Bridge motherboards STILL come with it.

Firewire lives up (or is at least much closer) to its specified speeds and I would not want to live without it in my line of work. When I get disks with firewire ports you bet I will use it rather than that shitty USB 2.0 and its 20MB/s real life speeds.

Can play back uncompressed 10 bit PAL material in real time from a disk connected through firewire for gods sake. No more hating on that lovely port!

[Asera]

I can see Thunderbolt being absolutely amazing for server farms, since you can throw so much through it.

For example, you got a server acting up, won't respond to network so you cannot SSH or RDP into it, you go over with a netbook or tablet (assuming they get thunderbolt ports), plug it into the server that's in a rack with no monitor or input devices, and the server puts all necessary input and visual connections over TB to your netbook/tablet for you to troubleshoot.

Another good use for it, docking stations for laptops. You can put PCIe and displayport signals over the interface, so picture having a nice thin Sandy Bridge based laptop that uses the IGP when you're out and about, saving tons of power and heat, then when you get home, drop it on a dock and suddenly you're rocking some kind of discrete card/GPU.

eSATA is plug and play, yes, but it has several disadvantages. Namely right now it's tricky to get working as most motherboards tie it into a PATA controller (which I always disable and forget my eSATA port wont work with it off), and if you don't have AHCI enabled, it will act up. That and the cables tend to be stiff, and they aren't very long (2metres max), and don't provide power (need eSATAp for that).

USB2 is slow.

Firewire is good, but it is VERY old (started development in 1986!), and is a bit more expensive to implement than USB due to having it's own controller that doesn't offload to the CPU. It's a little more versatile too, although it tends to be less compatible than USB in some scenarios.

[Deleted]

Is Apple really responsible for Firewire? I swear it's the most useless port in the world, and for some reason Sandy Bridge motherboards STILL come with it.

USB has severe overhead problems when used at higher capacities. In addition there are typically quite significant delays associated with it. (Not always discernible for users, but they're huge for the computer)

Light Peak is PCI-E based, and like Firewire has direct memory access (DMA) which permits dramatically improved performance for latency sensitive applications. Firewire is currently used in those situations - but Lightpeak is likely going to completely phase Firewire out. USB is going to remain; though I have for a long time had doubts we'll ever see a widespread 3.0 adoption, with most remaining with 2.0. The only devices that benefit from its bandwidth are normally better off on Firewire/eSATA/Light Peak due to reduced CPU overhead, greater featureset (NCQ & SMART for storage devices for example), and higher bandwidth.

The more interesting attributes of the PCI-E base however is not only that its driverless, but also that it can in theory permit sharing resources between devices far more intimately than any current interconnects permit. Sharing sound resources, video resources - like a Laptop borrowing a Desktops GPU, and it as a short-range Ethernet replacement (since 10gbps is an absolute arse to get hold of privately) are really the attributes thats had be interested in the tech the past few years. As such, it also makes a very effective universal docking connector.

Light Peak was designed to be capable as an internal port replacement as well as external - hence its extraordinary flexibility and performance. I have noticed a lot of news sources (even tech ones) have ignored or forgotten about this point.

I was slightly surprised Light Peak failed to make it to the current Sandy Bridge boards.

[kidsafe]

Like others have said, FireWire was a great technology for its time. Isosynchronous data transfer, DMA, nice powered ports, etc. Until USB 3.0 came along, it ruled the roost for portable mass storage. I discount eSATA here because the spec is a mess. Mos eSATA ports and devices require external power, and eSATAp is not widespread.

Thunderbolt being a native PCIe bus means drivers don't have to be rewritten and a very simple bridge controller supplied by Intel can convert many PCIe adapters into external dongles/docks.

Also not mentioned here, but I believe the current implementation of Thunderbolt (I hate the name) is dual-channel and 10Gbps each way. That means it is capable of 8 times the throughput of USB 3.0 already.

USB 3.0 is of course not dead in the water. It is dreadfully cheap to implement and whomever said most players will just stick to USB 2.0 in their host devices is naive. Intel has already stated that native USB 3.0 support is coming to its chipsets. AMD has stated the same.

I was slightly surprised Light Peak failed to make it to the current Sandy Bridge boards.

I'm not surprised. It's just not part of the chipset, and no board partner is going to implement an expensive additional controller for a nascent I/O technology. It's the same reason why most board partners use Realtek or Marvell NICs instead of Intel's. Marvell, Realtek, JMicron, NEC/Renesas controllers are dirt cheap.

[Deleted]

It's just not part of the chipset

Enter the part that was the surprise.

[kidsafe]

Enter the part that was the surprise.

Intel is not going to include a boutique I/O option on a mainstream chipset. It's why they only offer two SATA 3.0 ports or a incomplete implementation of their GbE NIC. Light Peak was also demo'd after the Cougar Point chipset was taped out.

[Vashuna]

For $2500 though for the best macbook they offer, you don't really get a lot. Oh man intel HD that switches to a AMD 6750M. You can find better for half the price. I'm surprised they even feature sandy bridge cpus...

[Asera]

For $2500 though for the best macbook they offer, you don't really get a lot. Oh man intel HD that switches to a AMD 6750M. You can find better for half the price. I'm surprised they even feature sandy bridge cpus...

Uh, Thunderbolt isn't limited to Macbooks.

In fact, we aren't even talking about Macbooks.

Imo, you might see TB ports on Z68 boards.

[Badpaladin]

For $2500 though for the best macbook they offer, you don't really get a lot. Oh man intel HD that switches to a AMD 6750M. You can find better for half the price. I'm surprised they even feature sandy bridge cpus...

Thread isn't about macs, it's about thunderbolt tech. And I'm 100% positive looking at a computer not designed for gaming with a gamer's perspective isn't exactly the best way to determine worth(actually in terms of overall value, the new 13 inch MBPs are aboslutely steals, if you look past GPU).

As for Thunderbolt, I fucking love it. Consolidation of information is always a good thing. Speed is just a bonus.

[Asera]

the new 13 inch MBPs are aboslutely steals

Have you seen the new HP Brazos netbook? That thing looks pretty slick for what it is.

[Badpaladin]

Have you seen the new HP Brazos netbook? That thing looks pretty slick for what it is.

A little different, but they definitely do look sleek. Do like. If only I won the lottery so I could buy new computers from all the companies just for fun!

[kidsafe]

Imo, you might see TB ports on Z68 boards.

Implementing Thunderbolt will be entirely up to the board partner because I can say with near 100% certainty that it's not going to be on any Intel chipset for a while.

Not when the Thunderbolt controller is nearly as large as a standard chipset die itself:
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/419...rboltICMBP.jpg