10 man Heroic Chimaeron help.

[KriegSeries]

My guild has been on 10man Heroic Chimaeron for a couple weeks now and we just can't seem to down him.

We use 2 tanks and 1 DPS maintank during Bile-O-tron. When a feud hits we have everyone stack up except for the tank taking the feud and the double attacks. I have read in some places though that the 2nd tank should be taunting off the double attack that happens during feud then the next feud, the roles of reversed. Is this how it's suppose to be done?

We have gotten him to phase 2 a couple of times, but not reliably because the tank will die a lot of times.

Also what percent should you stop DPS (We keep stopping to early or too late and pushing too soon or not soon enough). And when is the best time to push him into phase 2? After a regular massacre, stack up heal and push? During a feud (Tanks stack up too and push?) Or stay stacked up after the massacre at the end of feud heal and push.

As a side note, I'm a druid and was wondering what spells other druids use to heal the target of slime. Currently I use regrowth because my nourish can't heal 10k by itself. I don't find myself running out of mana, but sometimes I get pretty close. And is the glyph of regrowth worthwhile on this fight?

[Deleted]

#1 No. The Feud tank takes all hits including the double attacks doing the feud. Pop a cd to survive instead.
#2 Around 25% you wanna stop all dps, if you're slow at reacting even earlier. The boss goes into p2 at around 20-21%.
#3 It's best to push him into p2 right after he does a feud and you've healed everyone up (the slimes come quite quickly after massacre so avoid that). Just pop heroism when u see the feud sign and then fire off those big heals; divine hymns, tranq etc. and as soon as everyone is topped you push in. Timing is everything! (tanks can stack up aswell for more aoe heal)
#4 No idea on druid questions.

[KriegSeries]

We usually have about 5 or 6 feuds (Specially if they are back to back to back)

Is that too many for reliable CD usage?

[Deleted]

2 tanks is enough, you don't need to used a dps tank at all.
what you wanna do ( or at least we found this easiest )

your '' MT'' starts to tank and takes the breaks
your '' OT '' taunts on the double attacks and eats those, then your MT taunts back and keeps taking the breaks.
Feud phase everyone stacks up ( even the tanks cause it's easier to heal them up and the raid at the same time )
your OT ( the one without break stacks ) taunts here and tanks the boss ( pop cd's on the double attacks )
( 1st double attack SW, 2nd double attack in feud is always a massacre so he wont actually do a double attack, use a cd on the 3rd double attack again )
when your '' MT '' breaks stacks reset he eats the double attacks, and takes the boss in Feud phase. ( and keep rotating like this )
do this till about 22% then stop ALL dmg, for the next massacre / feud top everyone off and push to ph 2

in ph 2 just stack up, kiting has no use at all, he has a 5 sec swing timer so he will have cought up before his next swing anyway.
+ dure to the dot you will die after an attack anyway.
pop cd's ofcourse to servive longer ( tanks ) in ph 2. SW/ PS / barkskin etc.
a healer who can taunt ( pally / druid ) can do so on about 22% ( and a tank instantly tauning back ) to act as another meat shield cause all healing is reduced by 99% anyway, having your dps up for those extra 5 secs helps a lot.

if you got the dps you can run with a 4 healer setup to help top your tank off during feud cause he will take a melee attack as soon as the feud is cencelled.
We ran with a pally / war tank team cause the block helps a lot ( critical block 66% dmg avoided, basecally a free SW )
i dont know about the druid question, regrowth should do the trick else stick a pally on that with holy shock / flash heal.
we had 3 feuds on every kill so far ( but it has a smal lRNG factor in it )

hunters / rogues are great for this to servive a bit
also keeping hunters pet with growl ON can help, giving them more threat then then a hunter after a fd and act like another meat shield

hope it helps and good luck

[KriegSeries]

For the few times we have gotten him into p2, we havent been close to killing him even though everyone was topped off (What ended the fight was him killing all of us, not the dot).

What DPS is required to kill him through phase two? We usually have everyone around 15k-17k DPS

[Deleted]

For the few times we have gotten him into p2, we havent been close to killing him even though everyone was topped off (What ended the fight was him killing all of us, not the dot).

What DPS is required to kill him through phase two? We usually have everyone around 15k-17k DPS

Phase 2 is about surviving and burning him down before he burns you. Pretty much you want everyone topped before phase 2 as you do because of the nasty debuff ( ticking shadow damage ) PLUS Mortality. The more Health your raid got before phase 2 the more time you'll have to dps him down.

The damage can be reduced with raidcooldowns such as Divine Sacrifice, Power Word: Barrier, Aura Mastery. Having a disc priest shielding the last phase works wonders since the ticks will tick about 2k every second (unmitigated) and a PW:s = 20k+ giving you 10 sec more to survive.

Aside from this it's a matter of just burning him down, if you're executing it correctly your dps should be just fine. Stacking to make use of the PW:b helped my raid alot and my spamm of PW:s. ( Smite priest will give a slight increase in dps as well if so were to be )

[Maven]

2 tanks is enough, you don't need to used a dps tank at all.
what you wanna do ( or at least we found this easiest )

your '' MT'' starts to tank and takes the breaks
your '' OT '' taunts on the double attacks and eats those, then your MT taunts back and keeps taking the breaks.
Feud phase everyone stacks up ( even the tanks cause it's easier to heal them up and the raid at the same time )
your OT ( the one without break stacks ) taunts here and tanks the boss ( pop cd's on the double attacks )
( 1st double attack SW, 2nd double attack in feud is always a massacre so he wont actually do a double attack, use a cd on the 3rd double attack again )
when your '' MT '' breaks stacks reset he eats the double attacks, and takes the boss in Feud phase. ( and keep rotating like this )
do this till about 22% then stop ALL dmg, for the next massacre / feud top everyone off and push to ph 2

in ph 2 just stack up, kiting has no use at all, he has a 5 sec swing timer so he will have cought up before his next swing anyway.
+ dure to the dot you will die after an attack anyway.
pop cd's ofcourse to servive longer ( tanks ) in ph 2. SW/ PS / barkskin etc.
a healer who can taunt ( pally / druid ) can do so on about 22% ( and a tank instantly tauning back ) to act as another meat shield cause all healing is reduced by 99% anyway, having your dps up for those extra 5 secs helps a lot.

if you got the dps you can run with a 4 healer setup to help top your tank off during feud cause he will take a melee attack as soon as the feud is cencelled.
We ran with a pally / war tank team cause the block helps a lot ( critical block 66% dmg avoided, basecally a free SW )
i dont know about the druid question, regrowth should do the trick else stick a pally on that with holy shock / flash heal.
we had 3 feuds on every kill so far ( but it has a smal lRNG factor in it )

hunters / rogues are great for this to servive a bit
also keeping hunters pet with growl ON can help, giving them more threat then then a hunter after a fd and act like another meat shield

hope it helps and good luck

Did you realized that with this tactic when the 2nd Feud ends both of your tanks will have 2 or more stacks of break? and probably if they aren't lucky the double attack will oneshot them? did you actually killed the boss? no offense here.

It's 100000000000 easier with a melee DPS taunting, and I don't buy you don't have a Dk or Ret or even Warrior (But Warriors really lose DPS changing stances to taunt) so you tanks never have stacks of break during the feud or double attacks.

Also, 4 healers? seriously? Why are you trying to help if you don't have a clue? you won't kill him in the 2nd phase and way way way less with only 2 tanks.

---------- Post added 2011-03-02 at 03:16 AM ----------

For the few times we have gotten him into p2, we havent been close to killing him even though everyone was topped off (What ended the fight was him killing all of us, not the dot).

What DPS is required to kill him through phase two? We usually have everyone around 15k-17k DPS

You don't need hard DPS, you just need to have your tanks at almost 100% and with CDs, so they won't die instantly, this is sort of lucky because they can be with all the CDs up and a Double Attack will just destroy them, that's not their fault (Most of the times).

Be sure they use Avoidance trinkets since stamina in this fight sucks, I myself go with the Valiona and Jewelcrafting so I've 40 seconds of dodge burst every 2 min.

Also if you can brezz the first DPS that dies that will be great.

Also have you holy paladin or druid resto taunt the boss if you're confident, healers sucks in that phase except priest.

[Kalinga]

I'd say you need to do more dps than those 15-17k. It is pretty much a patchwerk style fight for dpsers and pulling less than 20k in a HC raid on a patchwerk fight is not very good.

Are you lacking any vital buffs?

Also, on the druid question, you should be healing tanks on chimaeron. Having LB and other hots on the double strike soaker outside of feuds and raid healing on feuds. We run hpala, hpriest and rdruid on chim and our druid is healing tanks together with our paladin. Our hpriest heals the raid more or less himself with some assist from the paladin. During feuds our paladin switch to full time tank healing and the other healers assist when they can but focus on raid.
Druids are the worst healers of all to handle raidhealing on this encounter, just as you said, regrowth is the only spell that you can rely on. However, you do excel on tank healing on this fight especially when healing the soaker since hot's results in little to no overhealing.

Also if you have a mage, have him save mirror image for last phase and tricks/md him during the fight so he is high on the threat meter. It takes chim a good 20s to kill all images.

Anyone saying that a dps tank makes the fight easier does not know how to actually do it with only 2 tanks. We tried both and we liked both but in the end it's not much harder to do with 2 tanks and you gain some dps making the fight shorter. The dps tank usually don't pull all that much dps compared to what they can do otherwise.
If your tanks have 4 set bonus they can cover an entire feud with 1 cd and on the first double attack after feud there's a bunch of methods to save the tank: Intervene, glyphed PoM, pet taunting, pet intervene, externals.

[Pwnpaw]

For the few times we have gotten him into p2, we havent been close to killing him even though everyone was topped off (What ended the fight was him killing all of us, not the dot).

What DPS is required to kill him through phase two? We usually have everyone around 15k-17k DPS

Right before he is about to go into phase 2 you should have both your tanks running into a corner each (preferably the furthest away from eachother as possible) while their running they should both taunt so that they have maximum aggro for phase 2.

Chimaeron will first go after one tank, he pops all his survival CDs (in addition to other avaliable CDs like Pain supression,etc) It is also a good idea to have your paladin BoP the first tank right b4 he is about to die, Chimaeron will then start moving towards the second tank, due to them standing in seperate corners Chimaeron has to move all the way across the room, the second tank then pops all his CDs.

It's abit luck dependent but depending on dodge/parry luck your tanks can survive for a good amount of times, specially with the added time it takes chimaeron to move back and forth.

We killed him once without losing a single tank. Popped dodge trinkets and I dodged like every attack, followed up by survival instincts, barkskin, pain supression, etc. And then right b4 the killing blow I get BoP and pop Frenzied Regen. He then runs towards the second tank and he does the same thing.

If however both your tanks do die and chimaeron still isn't dead, all the DPS/healers should spread out across the room, standing in seperate corners and as far away from eachother as possible.

This gives you alot of extra time cause chimaeron has to move around alot, use all mobility/defensive CDs to your advantage here, Sprint, life grip, heroic leap, blink, mirror image, etc.
F.example: Both your tanks are dead and chimaeron is going after your hunter. The hunter runs to the opposite corner of the room, when chimaeron reaches the hunter he pops deterrence, right before deterrence expires the hunter gets a life grip followed up by a disengage, when chimaeron reaches the hunter again the hunter feign deaths.
Chimaeron then goes after a Mage, the mage blinks into the corner the furthest away, pops mirror images, Chimaeron will then use alot of extra time to kill the images, when all images are down the Mage ice blocks, he then goes after the Warrior, the warrior heroic leaps away and pops shield wall + shield block to maybe survive an extra attack, etc. Just do anything to buy the raid some extra seconds.

Just keep following similar tactics to this if your tanks die. Just spread out and kite Chimaeron as much as possible. Use CDs like Iceblock/vanish/feign death/disengage/lifegrip/heroicleap to your advantage.

---------- Post added 2011-03-02 at 03:28 AM ----------

2 tanks is enough, you don't need to used a dps tank at all.
what you wanna do ( or at least we found this easiest )

your '' MT'' starts to tank and takes the breaks
your '' OT '' taunts on the double attacks and eats those, then your MT taunts back and keeps taking the breaks.
Feud phase everyone stacks up ( even the tanks cause it's easier to heal them up and the raid at the same time )
your OT ( the one without break stacks ) taunts here and tanks the boss ( pop cd's on the double attacks )
( 1st double attack SW, 2nd double attack in feud is always a massacre so he wont actually do a double attack, use a cd on the 3rd double attack again )
when your '' MT '' breaks stacks reset he eats the double attacks, and takes the boss in Feud phase. ( and keep rotating like this )
do this till about 22% then stop ALL dmg, for the next massacre / feud top everyone off and push to ph 2

in ph 2 just stack up, kiting has no use at all, he has a 5 sec swing timer so he will have cought up before his next swing anyway.
+ dure to the dot you will die after an attack anyway.
pop cd's ofcourse to servive longer ( tanks ) in ph 2. SW/ PS / barkskin etc.
a healer who can taunt ( pally / druid ) can do so on about 22% ( and a tank instantly tauning back ) to act as another meat shield cause all healing is reduced by 99% anyway, having your dps up for those extra 5 secs helps a lot.

if you got the dps you can run with a 4 healer setup to help top your tank off during feud cause he will take a melee attack as soon as the feud is cencelled.
We ran with a pally / war tank team cause the block helps a lot ( critical block 66% dmg avoided, basecally a free SW )
i dont know about the druid question, regrowth should do the trick else stick a pally on that with holy shock / flash heal.
we had 3 feuds on every kill so far ( but it has a smal lRNG factor in it )

hunters / rogues are great for this to servive a bit
also keeping hunters pet with growl ON can help, giving them more threat then then a hunter after a fd and act like another meat shield

hope it helps and good luck

1. I recognized your name, are you from Frostwhisper-EU?
2. Some of your tips are horrible, it is much much easier to go with a dps tank and spreading out helps alot, stacking up in phase 2 is not recomended. You can buy alot of extra time by kiting chimaeron back and forth rotating different CDs.

Offcourse if your raid has alredy cleared him before and everyone is doing great dps then it might be better to just stack up and zerg.
But for a progressing guild I would recomend spreading out and try to buy as much time as possible, might be that not everyone is doing top DPS.

[Maven]

Pwnpaw tips are the good tips, listen to him

[Pwnpaw]

Did you realized that with this tactic when the 2nd Feud ends both of your tanks will have 2 or more stacks of break? and probably if they aren't lucky the double attack will oneshot them? did you actually killed the boss? no offense here.

It's 100000000000 easier with a melee DPS taunting, and I don't buy you don't have a Dk or Ret or even Warrior (But Warriors really lose DPS changing stances to taunt) so you tanks never have stacks of break during the feud or double attacks.

Also, 4 healers? seriously? Why are you trying to help if you don't have a clue? you won't kill him in the 2nd phase and way way way less with only 2 tanks.

---------- Post added 2011-03-02 at 03:16 AM ----------



You don't need hard DPS, you just need to have your tanks at almost 100% and with CDs, so they won't die instantly, this is sort of lucky because they can be with all the CDs up and a Double Attack will just destroy them, that's not their fault (Most of the times).

Be sure they use Avoidance trinkets since stamina in this fight sucks, I myself go with the Valiona and Jewelcrafting so I've 40 seconds of dodge burst every 2 min.

Also if you can brezz the first DPS that dies that will be great.

Also have you holy paladin or druid resto taunt the boss if you're confident, healers sucks in that phase except priest.

If im not mistaken that is Ramacon from my server and he is in a really good guild, if it is infact him and he says that his guild is using that tactic then I believe it is a valid tactic and it probably does wonders.

I do however still believe that spreading out works better when progressing on the fight (since often not everyone is doing top dps), if your raid dps is great then stacking up could be better.

[KriegSeries]

I'd say you need to do more dps than those 15-17k. It is pretty much a patchwerk style fight for dpsers and pulling less than 20k in a HC raid on a patchwerk fight is not very good.

Can anyone confirm if our DPS is too low? Like I said, we haven't really gotten to phase 2 reliably and can't see if our DPS is low or not.

[Kalinga]

I totally disagree with above poster. Chim has a pretty big hitbox, faster than normal run speed and a 5 s wing timer. The amount of dps you loose from moving around does not make up for the 1 s you might buy with spreading out.

If it would take chim more than 5 s to reach his target then yes, it would prob be worth spreading, this is however not the case.

Tanks seperating and boping one is a neat trick though, as long as the first tank cancels the bop before the 2nd tank dies.

[Pwnpaw]

Can anyone confirm if our DPS is too low? Like I said, we haven't really gotten to phase 2 reliably and can't see if our DPS is low or not.

If everyone is at 15-17k I think that should be enough, use my mentioned tactic above to buy as much time as possible during phase 2.

As for phase 1 this is what we did:
We had 3 healers, 2tanks (druid + dk) and 1 dps tank (warrior)

DPS tank taking the beaks, druid tank taunting on double attacks.
The raid stacks up on feud, except for the Druid tank who tanks Chimaeron during first feud.
Been a while since we did this fight but if I recall correctly he only does 1 double attack during feud.
You need a survival CD or a huge amount of luck to survive the double attack.

Here is how I used my CDs: When feud starts I pop Frenzied Regen (have it glyphed so I will recieve 30% more healing for its duration) making it easier for the healers to top me off, when I see he is about to use double attack I pop survival instincts + barkskin, making it easily survivable and the healers can focus more on raid healing.

Another great tip for Tanking druids on this fight is to spec into Nurturing instincts (20% more healing recieved in cat form),
That way when im taking double attacks I can go bear form, taunt, take the double attack, then warrior taunts back and I go cat form giving healers 20% extra healing on me making it much easier to top me off after double attacks.

After first feude the DPS warrior continues to take beaks while the DK tank takes Double attacks.
When second feud starts the DK tank tanks Chimaeron and pops his Def CDs b4 double attack.

Depending on how rapidly chimaeron decides to do his feuds your first tank (druid in this case) should have his CDs back up for the third feud.
If he doesn't then he will need a Pain supression or he can pop a dodge/parry trinket and hope to avoid atleast 1 of the attacks.

During feud you should also have your dpsers help out on AoE healing, Healing Rain/Tranquility/etc helps out alot even if your not healing specced.

[Kalinga]

Can anyone confirm if our DPS is too low? Like I said, we haven't really gotten to phase 2 reliably and can't see if our DPS is low or not.

2 tank strat is easier the more dps you have. We never get more than 3 feuds which means we can toss out alot of externals on each feud as well as tanks using their own cds. A "dpstank" is a loss in dps and if you're struggling in p2 I wouldn't recommend a dpstank strat for you

[Pwnpaw]

I totally disagree with above poster. Chim has a pretty big hitbox, faster than normal run speed and a 5 s wing timer. The amount of dps you loose from moving around does not make up for the 1 s you might buy with spreading out.

If it would take chim more than 5 s to reach his target then yes, it would prob be worth spreading, this is however not the case.

Tanks seperating and boping one is a neat trick though, as long as the first tank cancels the bop before the 2nd tank dies.

Yes offcourse BoP is removed b4 second tank dies giving Chimaeron more time to move back again.

As for the DPS spreading out it depends on what class it is.
A hunter can buy the raid alot of time by using deterrence/disengage/feign death correctly, same thing goes for a mage with iceblock/images or a Rogue with evasion/vanish/sprint.

Offcourse if chimaeron goes after an enhancement shaman or something else with no real CD to survive then there is no point in running away.

But if it is a class with some kind of "leap" mechanic or an aggro reset/immunity then it can buy some additional seconds for DPS to unleash hell.

Also as mentioned above we found it easier to pop BL right b4 he goes into phase 2 instead of after.
Easier to top people off and also easier to time the phase transition.

[Kalinga]

Disengage buys another ranged global for the hunter before he deterrance ->FD, it does nothing for the raid.

Chim still have a 5 s swing timer. The only way to actually buy some time for the raid with leap mechanics is if you do it a split second before he swings. This is obviously very hard to time and you're probably better of unleashing another global of dps on him.

[Pwnpaw]

Disengage buys another ranged global for the hunter before he deterrance ->FD, it does nothing for the raid.

Chim still have a 5 s swing timer. The only way to actually buy some time for the raid with leap mechanics is if you do it a split second before he swings. This is obviously very hard to time and you're probably better of unleashing another global of dps on him.

I disagree, we bought alot of extra time by spreading out and rotating iceblock/bop/deterrence/disengage/lifegrip/etc

But different stuff works for different people I guess.

[Deleted]

I am the GM of the Ramacons guild (Hunters of Men, Frostwhisper for those interested).

We ran with 2 tanks and 4 healers (Pala/War tanking, 2 Disc Priest, 1 Resto Druid, 1 Resto Shaman healing). Our DPS on the kill night were a Hunter, Rogue, Fury Warrior and Elemental Shaman. We had all available buffs/debuffs except Arcane Intellect.

Whilst no doubt our tactic could be refined (nor is anyone disputing that other valid tactics exist), we found that it did indeed work (by the fact we actually got the kill). It was certainly a close run thing though, it required a rebirth (on the Fury Warrior) in the last phase to meet the DPS requirement to kill it before he om-nom'd the whole raid. We wanted to be able to use Ankh as well to make doubly sure, but we wasted it on the attempt prior to the actual kill.

We tried going with a 'DPS tank' but we found that using 2 tanks with correct taunting and cooldown use was just as effective. It also freed us up to either use a proper DPS or an extra healer. Initially we were going with the former but found we had too many random deaths to reliably progress on the fight, so we tried going with the extra healer we ended up getting the kill.

Why stack up in phase 2? Remember the DoT that Neferian puts on you here. One melee hit from Chimearon on a non-tank will almost certainly be a kill so will leave you on 1hp due to the Bile-O-Tron. The DoT will then kill you as soon as it ticks since the Bile-O-Tron effect will be on cooldown. Also given his exceptionally high swing timer (5 seconds) kiting seemed futile in most cases since it would take less than that for him to reach you across the room. Stacking up allowed the utilization of Divine Guardian and the 2 Power Word: Barriers we had available to us. Again i'm not suggesting our tactic was perfect or 100% the best one to use - we had maybe 3 or 4 attempts that hit last phase before we got our kill. Each time we were close enough and we felt that enough things could be improved upon for us to get the kill using this tactic - and we were clearly proved right. If we had an extra DPS available to us in the last phase it would have been less close and would not have required the use of rebirth - so if you do run with a tactic that allows for that then i am 100% certain that kiting is not 'needed'.

Anyone attempting this fight should be aware of the kiting tactics/tricks that are available from killing it on normal mode anyway, so discussing them here seems rather pointless. What is important to know is why they may be somewhat less effective on heroic (your mileage may vary on how much of course).

I would certainly not recommend this tactic unless you are sure that all your DPS are absolutely top notch. If you are interested in what DPS output is required, our final DPS was:
Hunter: 18.8k
Rogue: 17.3k
Ele Shaman: 15.8k
Fury Warrior: 15k
In the initial period before we had to stack up etc the dps was 19-22k.

Maven: With proper cooldown usage our tanks could survive double attacks with up to 3 stacks of break. There are only a few occasions during the fight where the tanks have break stacks whilst taking a double attack. These were planned for and dealt with.

[Pokty]

The only way we managed to kill it was to have two tanks in different corners and using hand of protection on the tank highest on threat, which makes Chim run to the other tank. The first tank then cancels the bubble, which makes Chim run back to the first tank. He then kills the first tank, and then runs back to the second tank. This buys you a lot of time. If you had a second hand you could then repeat this with the second tank, and ping pong chim once more. Having a warrior intervene players without ways of delaying death to put them lower on threat also works wonders.