Why would Kittys use addons like Ovale, etc?

[Deleted]

Hi!

Something has puzzled me for a while. I see many posts suggest that people playing feral cat use addons like Ovale, Badkitty, etc to suggest which moves to use next. Because we have a fairly complex priority system I suppose.

Now, I'm honestly not trying to verbaly insult anyone or anything like that, but I am genuinely puzzled why you choose to play a Feral cat but at the same time wants an addon to tell you which skill to use next? Aren't you then loosing the entire appeal of the class? Aren't you denying yourself the most rewarding part of playing the class? Aren't you then missing all the fun??

I played a rogue until deep into ICC. At that point my rogue was basically reduced to building combopoints with Mutilate and using Envenom as my finisher. In the end I was bored to death playing it, it had finaly become too simple, so I started toying with the idea of playing a more challenging class and feral cat looked cool, since it was roguelike, just more challenging (ok, a lot more challenging!). What a thrill to swap to this class. My old brain had to work overtime trying to optimize and perfect my game from raid to raid.
It was so cool swapping to a class where no matter how well you did on a fight, you could always look back and think that you could probably have timed this and that a little better. Whereas as a rogue I almost always found myself thinking that I couldn't have played that fight any better.

As a reasonably new feral cat I am clueless as to why some of you take away the most appealing aspect of the class, by using addons to suggest what skill to use next. I know its not lack of skills, because some of you are probably much better players than me.
Is it really just the urge to optimize DPS a little more than what you would have been able to yourself? Or is it the need to not have to pay as much attention to timers on progress that makes you use them?

Either way I don't think I get it. Then it would make more sense to reroll to an easier and higher potential DPS class (like a rogue!)
To me using Ovale and the likes is almost like cheating. That is if I have understood it correct: that it is an addon that suggests which skill to use next.

Is it just me being weird??

[Nathanyel]

I haven't looked at Ovale yet, but at least BadKitty only gives you an overview of your (de)buffs and cooldowns, plus a display how many more times you can Shred to extend Rip (at least in the pre-4.0 version, 4.0 hit this addon pretty hard and I don't think it's fully functional again already, got it on inactive)
And such info is pretty much existential. Sure you can watch the target's debuffs, your own buffs for the remaining duration of Savage Roar, TF and Berserk, and your actionbars for their cooldowns (here, OmniCC or something similar is existential to display the cooldowns in a way more noticable form) but it is much better to move these parts of info together, so you can watch them with one glance.
Atm I'm using InlineAura to display (de)buff durations on the actionbars, takes away the need to watch the target frame (except for mob HP)

[Finn mac cool]

I use CatRotationHelper, all it does it put symbols for the main feral abilities in the middle of my screen or where ever I want them that display the cooldown on abilities like beserk and tiger's fury and shows the debuff duration on mangle and bleeds. Making it much easier to keep track of everything instead of having your debuff durations in one place and your cooldowns in another.
It doesn't tell me what to use next. Just helps keep everything organized.

[Djuntas]

Well Im trying to use sexycolddowns atm. Havent used timers else. Sometimes it helps (also im trying to learn clipping bleeds now just before last tick, like 2 sec rake>new rake asap)... Cant do that with normal UI to good.

[Deleted]

There isn't anything about "complicated endgame rotations" in the character creation screen so you can't really blame people for not knowing.
On top of that, many people *will* do things you normally wouldn't expect them to for that extra 5% dps. Considering dps classes are just a number atm, being 105% of that other person is the simplest way to secure a raid spot and improve your worth as a human being.

And even if you do have the exact priority list in your head, there will still be times when you need to pay attention to something else. Having a huge fat icon where you're looking anyway increases the chances you press the "right" button with less delay.

[saeco]

Honestly, it might be bad for me to do, but I always recommend an addon like badkitty or feralbynight to new cats as a type of "training wheels". I used it for about 2 raids in very early wotlk until I got the rotation down. I have feralbynight still just for the use of it's timers, don't use it for anything else.

People may just have trouble with the class, but enjoy playing it nonetheless so they use those addond to make sure they can do it. An honestly, I'd rather them use that than suck and drag down the group with shit dps. -shrug- Just my thoughts.

[charlimangy]

I've been playing a cat for years, and I use Ovale. It does feel a little bit like cheating, but mostly it's about learning the optimal priority and having nice big icons to remind you where you are in the 'tree'. Subjectively, it doesn't make the game less 'fun' for me. I mean, most of the timers are really in my head, anyways, and with almost any encounter, attention goes to other things. Sometimes I watch the real timers, sometimes I don't pay it much attention. For me it functions as an ongoing calibration tool, where every once in a while I notice that my internal clocks are a bit out of step with reality.

I think part of its appeal is that Ovale is often not situationally correct. It will tell you to use Berserk when really you know that you need to wait for Heroism, for example. Because its sometimes 'wrong' it makes it feel more like a friendly advisor than an overbearing drill sergeant.

Personally, I find myself on the top of the damage meters often enough that I needn't consider switching to a new toon. Besides, classes go up and down, as the whims of Blizzard change, and with a Druid you can always switch to tanking, caster, or healing if you get frustrated with melee DPS.

[Krann]

"Difficult Endgame Rotation" is soo 2010.

[Melonberry]

Back when the rotation was hard I used it. Of course now it's one of the easiest rotations in the game. No clue what ovale would even say.

[Kittahsmash]

Whatever helps me squeak out the most damage. There are times I'll ignore what Ovale suggests and use something else that I think is better, so I don't defer to it 100% of the time and I definately don't rely on it, but it's still handy for certain cases. Like telling you to FB quickly before Rip wears off, or that you have 5 combo points so go ahead and Rip (depending on where you're looking on the screen while moving around, seeing the icon pop up might be easier than seeing your combo points and your timers)

[Meleti]

"Difficult Endgame Rotation" is soo 2010.

Basically, this.

But more importantly - you shouldn't do anything to make the class harder for you to play properly. I don't want to slow down my guild because I was too busy trying to make my class as difficult to play as possible.

[Sonsys]

Good question with some good answers.

The best advise i got for asking this very same question was....

Find the addon -> install -> find an attack dummy -> spam it for about 10hours game time (not all at the same time) -> see your epic 15k dps -> remove addon -> spam for 2hours more -> see your 17.5k dps!! It works!!!

My veiw of it...

If your new to feral Pre Cata - It was almost the ONLY way for you to learn to play effectivly. The rotation was interesting and due to some factors it made it easier to get the hang of.

If your new to feral post Cata - Use it also - just to understand the mechanics of basic kitty - Its not that hard anymore but it still requires you to track a few abilitys/CD's and select the right time to use TF/SR/4set/Berserk/Trinkets....

If your an old Feral - I would advise not using any of these addons - They are about a 2k dps loss, They cant predict the fact that you had some fire spawn underyou and you had to move from the boss for a few moments therefor the shred its telling you to do is maybe not the most effective ability - since you could run an extra 2yrds and feral charge back in giving a free ravage.

Feral is a dynamic class that shouldnt be played follwing a script. Its easier to get a DoT timer (Xperl does fine for me) and combine it with Power Aura Classic and make some nice shiney things for SR/T11 4set etc... - These tracker addons are worth more to you than something that tells you what to push next.

Its the same with DMB - it doesnt tell you how to play but gives you handy reminders of what is coming next. Sadly things like clcret and Ovale do draw players focus away from what is going on around them. BUT. If your new like i say give it a go until you feel comfortable smashing your face into shred!!

[Mehdi]

Back when the rotation was hard I used it. Of course now it's one of the easiest rotations in the game. No clue what ovale would even say.

What rotations are harder than cat?

[Voytrekk]

Back when the rotation was hard I used it. Of course now it's one of the easiest rotations in the game. No clue what ovale would even say.

How does adding some time to some of the bleeds and adding 2 new mechanics take it from one of the hardest rotations in the game to the easiest. It is definitly easier now, but there are by far more easy rotations in the game(Mut rogue comes to mind)

[Deleted]

What rotations are harder than cat?

Sub-Rogues should be harder or atleast equal as they have to use 3 to 4 finishers.

[Krann]

Cataclysm homogenized the different dps rotations. Their differences are now in the combination of the rotation factors, which are global cooldowns, procs, ressources and dots/buffs (Did I miss one?). The Cat rotation consists of the latter two (manage your energy and combo points to keep up your dots/buff). With the changes to Savage Roar, Dot clipping and talents like Endless Carnage the Dot part was simplified a few months ago, leaving only the ressource management as the "hard" part (squeezing in those extra Ferocious Bites). 4.0.6 screwed up this decision-making in the heat of the battle. With the buff to Shred, Ferocious Bite is not powerful enough to be worth using above 25%. This lets us ignore our combo points when Rip and Savage Roar are up and leaves us mindlessly spamming Shred. Yes, I left out on Rake and Tiger's Fury timing, but this isn't really hard (9 seconds clipping).
I think, it's arguable, if this is "harder" than, for example, the fury warrior rotation (use every GCD, watch for procs, keep an eye on your ressource). The best comparison would be the combat rogue: Three finishers (which should be the same amount for the cat but isn't at the moment) plus some extra decision making with Revealing Strike and utility finishers. Once Ferocious Bite gets fixed, it will be "on par" with other rotations, i think. Right now our rotation is rather "easier" than "harder" (Difficulty always depends on personal preferences of the rotation factors I mentioned above).

But back to topic: Ovale might be a good way to get a feeling for a rotation, if you are new to a class, but it will never help you with encounter specific situations (refreshing Dots before switching the target, Berserk timing, etc.) and thus optimizing your dps. And the "more difficult is more fun"-argument isn't working (no Addons at all anyone?).

[tangedyn]

The only way to get your rotation right is to practice and train to do it the right way. Ovale, et al, allows you to train your rotation until muscle memory kicks in, then you can do without it... well except you'll still need the timers.

[Mordredofmia]

I never ever understood using a rotation suggesting addon at all. It does seem to take the fun and challenge out of the DPS rotation.

On the other hand, I do feel that putting all your buffs and debuffs in one easily viewed location is helpful. I choose to use TellMeWhen and OmniCC to accomplish this.

When I am in combat, the spell icons for Tigers Fury and Berserk pop up wherever I choose to place them, as large or small as I want, indicating they are available for use. Activating either ability makes the icon vanish.

When I Mangle/Rake/Rip a target the spell icon pops up with the remaining duration of the buff/debuff showing on it. It has also not given my any problems recording Glyph of Shred effects.

I like it more then Needtoknow or any other tracking addon.

[Solux]

I would hate to have something telling me what to use next, but given the way half our timers are on ourselves and half on our targets, I find it easier to have BadKitty display when those timers are coming up, particularly the long ones like SR and Mangle which can make a difference in a boss fight when they fall off. That means I still have to make my own decisions about what to use next, but they're informed ones.

Also, BadKitty currently works fine.

[Tygroen]

I've been reluctant to download a move-suggester. I'm not really a fan of that sort of thing, and it's just my personal preference. If other Cats find it eases their rotation, it is by no means something that would hurt, but I personally am just so used to the "rotation" (Krann said it best, and especially since it isn't like that any more) that I do perfectly fine without it. If I am ever having issues keeping things up (again, when the rotation was more difficult, due to lack of hit/exp, squeezing ferocious bites into your rotation, or tiger's fury timing, etc (and don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it)) because of maybe a particularly challenging encounter, or where I have a job more important than spanking, I just turn on some of my power auras to keep track of things, which I guess amounts to the same thing.

To the OP, it just boils down to personal preference, familiarity with the class/spec, and what they are trying to focus on, I suppose.