Mind = Blow. Rift and WoW, are they really competing?

[Simca]

I agree. It would be controversial if Ghostcrawler was dev'ing Rift. The competition is between the developers of each game for the fundings of the owner. But, even that isn't a literal competition.

And money usually flows -up- the chain of command, losing a little bit at each stop, so honestly they are still competing for sure.

It is true though, that either way, Vivendi wins. Although, I imagine they win more if WoW succeeds, considering their stocks in Activision.

[bullseyed]

I agree. It would be controversial if Ghostcrawler was dev'ing Rift. The competition is between the developers of each game for the fundings of the owner. But, even that isn't a literal competition.

The developer for each game is essentially the same firm. Don't confuse the software design title "Developer" with the type of software firm called "Developer". The software designers compete for pay and employment, which of course is indirectly based on the success of their games. The two pieces of software aren't really differentiated at all, which is what is odd about it. Imagine if Apple introduced the iTablet to go with along side the iPad and they were the exact same hardware, but one was slightly more shiny than the other. Would there really be a point? I'm not sure.

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 04:44 AM ----------

Damn, I got moved to off topic. Now no one will see it. I guess these forums aren't about WoW.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Damn, I got moved to off topic. Now no one will see it. I guess these forums aren't about WoW.

Well, to be fair, your original post wasn't so much about WoW as it was the connections between the firms behind WoW and RIFT. Because WoW was mentioned doesn't make it about WoW.

[-Zait-]

WoW is Rift's older cousin, think of it like that

[Dpoz]

NBC Universal was formed when NBC (which was/is owned by GE) was merged with Vivendi's Vivendi Universal Entertainment

Don't mean to burst your bubble... but Vivendi Universal sold all stake in NBC shortly before the release of RIFT. Google search "vivendi sold all stake" you'll see.
Can't link cause it's first post, apologies.

[The Jackal]

Can I get my tinfoil hat now?

[Mitsumoto]

Thats funny i didn't know that actually.

[Dammagia]

but the primary two partners are TimeWarner and NBC Universal.

Vivendi sold its 20% minority stake in NBC Universal on January 28th this year so no longer has any links to NBC Universal.

Additionally, NBC Universal is not a primary partner, it is an investor due to the SyFy game.tv show tie up, so nice conspiracy theory but ultimately flawed.

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 10:17 AM ----------

Don't mean to burst your bubble... but Vivendi Universal sold all stake in NBC shortly before the release of RIFT. Google search "vivendi sold all stake" you'll see.
Can't link cause it's first post, apologies.

This, and like I said, NBC Universal is only an investor for Trions other game, the SyFy tie up.

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 10:17 AM ----------

Thats funny i didn't know that actually.

Because it isn't true!

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 10:18 AM ----------

The developer for each game is essentially the same firm. .

No it really isn't.

[xile]

Vivendi sold its 20% minority stake in NBC Universal on January 28th this year so no longer has any links to NBC Universal.

Additionally, NBC Universal is not a primary partner, it is an investor due to the SyFy game.tv show tie up, so nice conspiracy theory but ultimately flawed.

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 10:17 AM ----------



This, and like I said, NBC Universal is only an investor for Trions other game, the SyFy tie up.

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 10:17 AM ----------



Because it isn't true!

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 10:18 AM ----------



No it really isn't.

The majority of everything you see, own, and use is owned by a max 10 or so corporations. That's the truth and many people don't realize it. And yes a majority of the games are owned and or sponsored (i.e. companies have stake in these companies) by a few select companies. That's how it's been for the past couple of decades.

[Heywoods]

Dammagia nails it on the head. Sorry OP but you are just wrong on this one. Rather all you brought to light is that big companies like Time Warner and NBC Universal shield themselves by diversifying in many markets and companies.

The company is based on a joint venture between a number of firms

So first off its not a joint venture. Trion World Network is an incorporated wholly owned subsidiary. Trion World Network hired Rustic Canyon Partners, a venture capitalist company, to market their game development studio to potential investors. The VC group racked up 30 million dollars of funding from investors which just so happened to include Time Warner Investments and Peacock Equity as well as Bertelsmann Digital Media Investments, DCM, and Trinity Ventures among hundreds of smaller private investors.

A little accounting for you to show why this isn't a JV. Under GAAP an investment by purchasing > 20% and < 50% of the private common or preferred stock makes the investor have significant influence over the corporation that isn't what they did. It was literally just funding given to Trion World Network through a VC. They did not buy ownership in, Trion World Network so all that would have been seen is a huge increase in the Statement of Cash Flows so they could pour more money into their 3 upcoming MMO's and hopefully return good numbers to the investors.

the primary two partners are TimeWarner and NBC Universal

Wrong again. There were many investors present in 2007 when this fundraising of $30 million dollars occurred. Time Warner Investments and Peacock Equity are just investment arms of Time Warner and NBC Universal that seek to invest in opportunities that directly enhance their Company's ability to meet specific strategic goals aka make money. I wonder why two media companies operating in ISP's and entertainment mediums might invest in an MMO company that requires customers who pay for the internet?

I would keep going and make things worse for the OP and bring up more reasons why hes wrong but I have severed the most important ties that he was claiming. To his credit he did bring to light and educate more users that these huge international conglomerate media companies have such huge amounts of capital at their disposal that they can literally invest in so many markets and companies that you can always find ties and linkages between the strangest of things.

That doesn't make it a conspiracy however. That is just business. Its a game of hedging your losses and the best way is to invest in both the winners and the losers and hope you played your cards right and end in the black.

[Cryostasis]

why should they? If it's anything like the previous "WoW Killers" it's going to have a fanbase for a very short and limited period of time and then die off (yeah, Aion, looking right at you).

That's your opinion. However, in this case, my opinion is I believe the player-base may actually stay in their new home. I seriously doubt Rift is a WoW-killer, but I feel that Wow's security has definately been breached.

It is most certainly not an Aion, Conan or warhammer either. Comparing it to those shows that it is unlikely you levelled a character up to about 30, run a few instances, and seen the class diversity, the details. TBC nostalgia overcame me as I played rift. The "fun factor" was there too.

The "general" opinion at the moment for those playing Rift for a while is "wow, this is a pretty good, bug free alternative to wow, and damn, it just looks so much better - how the heck can I go back to that god-awful graphic engine after playing this"

They are not slacking either. A major fix/update was delivered yesterday. The guys at Aion are already working on the next 20-man raid as well as hot-fixing/tweaking the difficulty of the current one. If you love PvE, you will love rift and if you love battlegrounds (but loathe arena), you will probably love rift too. Ditto if you like playing an mmo with a good Auction House, mobs that unexpectedly drop cute pets. All with more attention to graphical detail.

Log onto WoW at any given time and you will see people standing around aimlessly in Orgrimar. The best thing Blizzard could have done was give me a 7-day pass recently after levelling a cleric to 30. I loggeed in after two weeks of playing rift. WoW looks so damn dated - as it should because it is using a 6 year old graphic engine. I've got an entry level gaming rig and I run rift at 30~45 fps on settings better than Ultra. I logged in, gave all my gold to my ex GM and on vent he whined that half the guild had left for Rift.

Log onto Rift and there are people running about doing things. The world is full of people. You see them as they can't fly over your heads. Flying, in my opinion, was a really dumb idea (in hindsite). There is just soo much to do, to explore, to learn - and this is fun.

Although I was personally dismayed with that wow lost its lustre to me, and feel a bit cheated with the content for the money I paid for the expansion, the boredom I experienced, but I still think I got my money's worth over the life of the product for me. You can't put a value on "good times" with buddies doing things together as a team, having fun. Wow's graphic engine and lack of non-raid content (to fill in the gaps when not raiding) is what killed it for me. A druid can only farm so many herbs!

[Soulstainer]

The truth of the matter is in alot of corporate deals though the money itself comes from the same company doesn't mean the ideas were relative to one another. Look at Bill Gates (Microsoft) He owns 35% of Apple/Macintosh. Now we know good ole Bill didn't have anything to do with the products that came out from Macintosh or anything though he still collects the profits from it. More than likely the same concept here =)

[Dammagia]

Dammagia nails it on the head.

I would keep going and make things worse for the OP and bring up more reasons why hes wrong but I have severed the most important ties that he was claiming. To his credit he did bring to light and educate more users that these huge international conglomerate media companies have such huge amounts of capital at their disposal that they can literally invest in so many markets and companies that you can always find ties and linkages between the strangest of things.

That doesn't make it a conspiracy however. That is just business. Its a game of hedging your losses and the best way is to invest in both the winners and the losers and hope you played your cards right and end in the black.

indeed, people confuse investment (which is a massive tax break) with creative control. If it was all about shareholding, pension funds would rule the world.

The majority of everything you see, own, and use is owned by a max 10 or so corporations. That's the truth and many people don't realize it. And yes a majority of the games are owned and or sponsored (i.e. companies have stake in these companies) by a few select companies. That's how it's been for the past couple of decades.

Max 10 or so is a contradiction in terms, like the rest of what you write. A post so full of generalistation its not true, next you will be saying Israel runs the US...

[Deleted]

Thought this kind of strategies were only used in the wrestling industry. Makes me wonder if Blizzard plans to let Rift take the glorious gaming torch. They are probably planing to kill Sylvanas and make Koltira the leader, that figures.

[wut?]

Wait, so you're telling me rich people are in charge of all these same companies?
OH.MY.GOD

[Mossmantle]

time = wasted i could care less about anything to do with rift, and i would like it if you stopped posting rift related threads in the wow section of the forums.

But... But.... It's WoW-related... Just like Rift.

See what I did there?

[Deleted]

i dont know! maybe they do

[bullseyed]

Don't mean to burst your bubble... but Vivendi Universal sold all stake in NBC shortly before the release of RIFT. Google search "vivendi sold all stake" you'll see.
Can't link cause it's first post, apologies.

Yeah, but game development for Rift started around 2006-2007, a good 3-4 years before that.

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 02:47 PM ----------

The truth of the matter is in alot of corporate deals though the money itself comes from the same company doesn't mean the ideas were relative to one another. Look at Bill Gates (Microsoft) He owns 35% of Apple/Macintosh. Now we know good ole Bill didn't have anything to do with the products that came out from Macintosh or anything though he still collects the profits from it. More than likely the same concept here =)

Bill had to buy Macintosh though to save them from bankruptcy, without gaining controlling interests. If they went broke, Microsoft would have gotten broken up by the government for antitrust. So he had to make sure they didn't fail, but couldn't be the one in control.

---------- Post added 2011-03-12 at 02:49 PM ----------

indeed, people confuse investment (which is a massive tax break) with creative control. If it was all about shareholding, pension funds would rule the world.

I wouldn't say it is a tax break, it is a wise use of capital. The ROR there will be greater than many other purposes of using the money. One of the really interesting things though is, that means it was a better ROR to invest in another firm than to invest in their own firm.

[MrProper]

OK i will say it again and will get probably banned for it, but Dammagia works for Trion. Theres one post, where he revealed it.

[Jaixenkhadgar]

Learn something new everyday I guess.

Blizzard = wins no matter what situation.

I would assume they aren't sharing ideas and etc however. I think part of it Blizzard not reacting is they don't see Rift as a competitor, and really, why should they? If it's anything like the previous "WoW Killers" it's going to have a fanbase for a very short and limited period of time and then die off (yeah, Aion, looking right at you).

The big thing that makes rift so appealing to alot of players right now is that it plays almost exactly like wow, has the Crowd control dynamic just like wow.. BUT... it's graphics are just amazing and it is Medievil period design instead of fantasy/cartoony design.

I actually love both games so far, but Rift is hands down more fun from a casual point of view so far. It's first Warfront is probably more fun than any of the WoW BG's as well.

What I think is the most amazing thing is that Rift just sort of appeared out of no where within my gaming community. Hell I play wow pretty hardcore and all but rift just sort of appeared out of fucking no where like a month ago and I bagged on it hardcore untill I finally choked up the 50 and tried it. I have to say its amazing, and if your bored of wow and are not all into Wow's lore you should make the switch to at least give this one a shot.