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  1. #201
    Like I said "balance is the key for tanking".

    Doing alot of dodge "could" hurt you. You alone have to make the choice on the "magic number".

    Bear tank have to deal with EH, Avoidance, and Threat. Over doing one of those will hurt.

  2. #202
    I dont find your choice in stats controversial atall tbh, expertise is a little underrated imo. Not that we need to be at the softcap but something between 16 and 20 seems to be a decent amount considering we bears do most of our threat with melee attacks it only helps with threat and a little with sd uptime aswell. It doesnt matter which buffs we have or if berserk is active, when our first 3-4 attacks on the boss get blocked or parried, which happens sometimes with only around 10 exp., our initial threat simply wont be enough for dps not to pull aggro and i HATE having to taunt back 5 seconds into the fight. Therefor on my gear like 2 items arent reforged to dodge but to expertise, got 18ex and that seems to be more then enough, for me atleast. By doing that my unbuffed dodge went from 33,80 to 33,45% which rly isnt anything to be worried about since buffed i still got around 36% and thats still without trinket procs etc. So yea, i for one like to have a little expertise aswell even with an itemlvl of 365...

  3. #203
    Dreadlord
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  4. #204
    Field Marshal
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    Cool Help with Tanking gear

    I'm looking to become a more serious raider in patch 4.2 and need some suggestions/criticism on my current tanking gear. Any help would be appreciated -please include any references.

    Poomer - Alterac Mountains

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by riceboy752 View Post
    I'm looking to become a more serious raider in patch 4.2 and need some suggestions/criticism on my current tanking gear. Any help would be appreciated -please include any references.

    Poomer - Alterac Mountains
    (edited in your armory link for benefit of others)

    Knowing whether you tank 10- or 25-man content would help, as would knowing what other class/specs you run with to determine if you're speccing into raid-redundant talents (for example, if a boomkin or kitty is putting up FF, you'd want to dump the points you have in Feral Aggression to put them into Fury Swipes (tbh, I'd move them anyway and just make it a point to FF 3x early on if needed).

    As a tank the biggest benefit you get from capping expertise and hit is threat. You do gain additional SD uptime but, with threat generally being a non-issue regardless, you would gain a lot more survivability by mostly dumping both in favor of dodge and mastery. Changing your reforging strategy and your engineering cogwheels (go mastery & dodge) would help a lot in that effort.

    - Change glove enchant from +44 stam to the +240 armor LW kit (old one from BC iirc).
    - Change chest enchant from +44 stam to +20 stats
    - Change wrist enchant from +50 crit to +50 agi

    For trinkets, aim to have 2 strong agi trinkets for general use (Fluid Death and Tia's Grace are both very easily obtainable, the former especially so once the patch hits when there's no weekly cap to stop you from finishing out the rest of the 'current' VP gear you want). You'll also want to have 2 stam trinkets to flip in for fights that demand a larger health pool or have very high magic damage components. The TB trinket is especially nice in select circumstances. While Heart of Thunder isn't a 'bad' trinket, there's really never a point where you'd take it over either of the agi trinkets I mentioned above.

    Edit -- For references... look at the original post in this thread. While some aspects are currently or soon to be a bit outdated, the general gearing and spec strategies looks to remain essentially the same for 4.2 (until such time as dps threat scaling begins to catch up, at which point expertise and then hit will rise in value).
    Last edited by Bigslick; 2011-06-18 at 05:20 AM.
    Bigslick (13/14H)
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  6. #206
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    anyone know how much healing/absorbs from sav def/leader of pack are you meant to be attaining when tanking nef heroic,, checking logs it looks like my sav def is doing 20% or more of my healing taken, is this good or bad? its 2nd on healing list on our 2 best tries that night (20% odd we got him till add tank died ) and its 2nd on list of overall attempts lol,, we only been on him 2 nights so should kill the fekker tomoro hopefully.. anyways are there any comparisons i can make as im curious now.
    i can link logs if you like
    im not really one for logs n what not until i made 15th in world on V&T heroic as hybrid kitty bear ;p now i find mself lookin at it but its all complicated to me lol
    Last edited by invader; 2011-06-18 at 05:00 PM.
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  7. #207
    17% or so on most kills, depends a bit on how many healers cross healing of different classes on you on where that places it in healing taken, it's top heal some logs, 3rd or 4th others.
    Might be a little bit up now since partials wont eat the charge.

    17ish for SD, LoTP might be another 3% up to 20
    Last edited by axxey; 2011-06-19 at 11:33 PM.

  8. #208

    mitigation and armor

    This guide says that the armor cap for a level 88 attacker is 429,329.
    wowwiki says the armor cap for a level 88 attacker is 56,916

    looking at real numbers in armory, the first number seems very high and the second number seems very low.

    Who is telling the truth? I'm trying to make an argument to my guild about why I feel that bear tanks are stronger than they seem to believe, and I need to find out how close to armorcap a bear can get at ilvl 359.

  9. #209
    Stood in the Fire uzumati's Avatar
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    Armor cap is 75% damage reduction which is in the neighborhood of 90K+ armor. In 359's you should be around 50K armor with aura/totem and that is higher than any other tank.
    Victoria Aut Mors

  10. #210
    Greatings everyone.

    I've been equiping my bear recently.
    I used to had 2 stamina trinkets, however after much reading I decided it was better to replace one of them for an agility one.
    Atm im using:
    Vial of Stolen Memories
    And im wondering wich one is best now? Essence of the Cyclone for a permanent 321 agi, or fluid Death for a 380 agi after 10 atacks?
    Im using fluid death, honestly i could use the extra hit + dodge (after reforge), and it seems better for tanking overall.

    From my head i do belive im around 173k hp and 39% dodge (fully raid buffed)

  11. #211
    Fluid death stacks very quickly, can pretty much assume near 100% uptime on stacks and the hit can reforge to dodge unlike the crit proc on essence.

  12. #212
    Guys, i've been checking our new Set items/Off set items...
    And they seem HORRIBLY optimized for bears...

    New standard seems to be 4set items (for set bonuses which are actually worth it now) + off set gloves (with crit/mastery). Ragnaros trinket (agility + mastery proc) and whichever trinket you have left over...

    With all that...it still is really badly optimized ... sets don't have much mastery, a lot of haste etc...Dunno...but seems like we might end up in a bad spot not because of some random nerf, but simply because our gear is so bad. If you check out what paladis/warriors/dk's get...its all mastery/dodge/parry which are all good.
    "DPS is science, healing is art, tanking is strategy."

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Gootgot View Post
    Guys, i've been checking our new Set items/Off set items...
    And they seem HORRIBLY optimized for bears...

    New standard seems to be 4set items (for set bonuses which are actually worth it now) + off set gloves (with crit/mastery). Ragnaros trinket (agility + mastery proc) and whichever trinket you have left over...

    With all that...it still is really badly optimized ... sets don't have much mastery, a lot of haste etc...Dunno...but seems like we might end up in a bad spot not because of some random nerf, but simply because our gear is so bad. If you check out what paladis/warriors/dk's get...its all mastery/dodge/parry which are all good.
    The problem is that we share the gears with Kitty druids. For them Haste is good.

    We just reforge all those haste into dodge, mastery, or exp/hit.

    Now I check the gears in questions. I also built a set of 378 gears.

    Ok, the only source of haste in T12 is the glove, so I replace it with a non tier item.

    As I get all the items, I found that the only source of haste is a ring and a necklace. I skip the trinkets due to them being situational per fight.

    Here is a build, Low Haste set up.
    Last edited by Auroro; 2011-06-28 at 04:55 PM.

  14. #214
    Hello fellow druids, after some time I'm gonna take up my Bear again.
    Obviously I'm reading up stuff about stats/prios/rotations/tricks and so on, and already back to some math modeling so I can get a good grasp of what I can expect from myself. As it stands, I also decided to show up here again thanks to my memories of a good community and gather some impressions on (tanking) druids real standing point.
    So the question is: on a most coolheaded analysis, how are bear tanks now? What things should I pay most attention to (e.g. "threat", "beware of magic fights", "aoe tanking")?
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  15. #215
    Stood in the Fire uzumati's Avatar
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    Probably AOE Tanking will require the most attention of the 3 you mentioned but it is much better than it was before. Single target threat is handed to you on a silver platter and magic damage is barely a tickle with properly managed CD's. All in all after a few days in firelands bears feel like they are in a pretty good place atm.
    Victoria Aut Mors

  16. #216
    Don't feel the need to be restricted to those 3 elements, they were just example. Meanwhile, thanks for the answer
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  17. #217
    There are still some mechanics that I take issue with. On Shannox for example, it's a noticeable difference between tanking Shannox vs tanking riplimb due to the fact that our agi trinkets require us to hit something, and our absorb is dependent on being hit, neither of which is guaranteed to be happening when OTing. Not a *huge* deal, I just MT'd shannox instead of our pally, but it's annoying.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by uzumati View Post
    Probably AOE Tanking will require the most attention of the 3 you mentioned but it is much better than it was before. Single target threat is handed to you on a silver platter and magic damage is barely a tickle with properly managed CD's. All in all after a few days in firelands bears feel like they are in a pretty good place atm.
    Related on single target tanking, how important hit/expertise is really? Since our fury warrior has a bad habit of dying if there ain't literally a 30 second pause after I have pulled the boss.
    I've disregarded the issue mostly, with blaming the class mechanics and avoided hit/expertise completely. Probably something which I am not doing right and should look into more.

  19. #219
    Stood in the Fire uzumati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auroro View Post
    "balance is the key for tanking".
    Like Auroro said just have to find a balance, once i had a comfortable amount of health an dodge i started playing around with threat stats i ended up around 5% hit and 18 exp without sacrificing much dodge and our warriors or anyone for that mater never come close. Keep in mind also a fight like Alysrazor where a bit of threat stats really make the fight fun when you can top the meters and its pretty much the tanks job to kill the add by himself due to the fixate damage buff.
    Victoria Aut Mors

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by uzumati View Post
    Like Auroro said just have to find a balance, once i had a comfortable amount of health an dodge i started playing around with threat stats i ended up around 5% hit and 18 exp without sacrificing much dodge and our warriors or anyone for that mater never come close. Keep in mind also a fight like Alysrazor where a bit of threat stats really make the fight fun when you can top the meters and its pretty much the tanks job to kill the add by himself due to the fixate damage buff.
    I had 36% dodge in bear with MotW, I did change couple gems per request from our healers which made them happy. I can probably revert couple reforges to get some hit/exp.
    WotLK tanking is lodged in the back of my brain so hard I'd want to just stack stam like back in the days.

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