No warlock questions answered?

[Drakile]

Its times like this i hate being the least played class, in a fkn popularity contests for answers to questions

And 2 hunter pvp questions, i give up

[Seclorum]

Honestly Were not broken. Neither are hunters but still.

Things I would love to see addressed are.
Shadows embrace taking too long to stack up and punishing us for having to move.
Why does the Sucubus beat out Glyphed and talented Felguard in DPS?
Why is there so much focus in Demonology for AOE when they wanted all dps to focus on Single target abilities more?
Is there anything being done to stop penalizeing Warlocks in PVP from dispell spam?

[Deleted]

OMG. We're the least played class? I feel so unique now...But srsly... Seclorum made some good points in his/her post

[Hauntdshadow]

Agreed.....and can anyone pls tell me why they need UA?

[Derian]

Hunters are good for very skilled players and particularly in Rated Battlegrounds.

I think as a hunter, I'd rather have not received any response, instead of this "hunters are fine, it's just that all the people complaining are bad" BS. They didn't even really answer the hunter questions, just told us to try rated BGs since we're bad in arenas.

I'm not trying to downplay that warlocks didn't get any questions answered, that really does suck, and I've headed over to thumbs up some of the warlock problems. Just saying that, at least in my opinion, I'd rather get no answer than a nonanswer.

[Seclorum]

PVP has always been an afterthough to PVE design imho. They try and balance around them both to have a "More Cohesive" experience for new players completely ignoring the fact that most PVP is done only at high level, and that takes time and learning which the "New Player" wont have yet when he starts but will have by the time hes gotten max level.

I still think classes need a talent tree that is pure PVP. Be it a completely new tree or retrofit one of the 3 trees for each class as pvp. There are certain mechanics that make PVP just plain not fun.

(Nobody Likes to be Kited, So they put in all sorts of root/snare breaks and gap closers.)
(Nobody Likes to have someone clinging to thier bum like a murloc in heat, So they added roots/snares/stuns and Gap Openers.)
(Nobody likes to be dot.dot.Dot'ed, so they added dispells and gave they a slight cost.)
(Nobody likes to have the majority of thier classes damage design negated by 1 spell mechanic that is less costly to use than having to heal through the Dot in the first place, so they gave us.... Unstable Affliction.... which doesnt really stop what it was designed to stop.)

A good idea I just came up with is something like this.

Unstable Affliction: When dispelled Causes 50k Damage to the Dispeller and causes the Dispeller to loose 5% mana per Second for 5 Seconds. During those 5 Seconds the Dispeller cannot Regenerate Mana from any source. While Unstable Affliction is on a target it is Always Removed First by any dispell mechanic.

The new mechanic replaces our lost Mana drain with something easier to use as well as threatening to a healer. The effect can be dispelled from the healer but your always going to take at least 1 tick of it, plus that means you have to burn 2 Globals to remove 1 spell or face the consequences.

[Drakile]

Unstable Affliction: When dispelled Causes 50k Damage to the Dispeller and causes the Dispeller to loose 5% mana per Second for 5 Seconds. During those 5 Seconds the Dispeller cannot Regenerate Mana from any source. While Unstable Affliction is on a target it is Always Removed First by any dispell mechanic.

I like this

[Seclorum]

I like this

Yea. Its still got holes in it and probably wont ever happen.

Its just talking with my guilds healers who pvp, they say Unstable affliction is a joke to deal with. Load your allies with hots or mending and just let it hit you. 4 Seconds of silence is trivial to deal with in thier opinion and almost impossible to capitalize.

This design forces choices for all parties.

Does the healer dispell it and deal with the big hit he takes as well as the mana loss? Does he focus on himself to get the mana burn off and heal up or does he accept the weakness of his HP loss after dealing with the mana burn? Does he just eat the mana burn to keep the dispell spam up?

Does the warlock keep unstable up on the original target to protect his other dots or switch to the healer while hes weak?

A slightly amended version I came up with

Unstable Affliction: When dispelled causes 20k Damage to the Dispeler. Causes the Dispeler to gain a stack of "Unstable Feedback" that lasts for 30 Seconds. Every time the Dispeler is afflicted by "Unstable Feedback" they loose 2% Total Mana Per Stack and Cannot Regenerate mana from any source for 5 seconds. While Unstable Afliction is on a target it is always removed first by any dispell mechanics.

This Version isnt as overtly punishing as the last one. "Unstable Feedback" Cannot be dispelled so it forces a consequence on the healer for Dispel spamming. This way if they keep spamming dispel they face horrendous damage and mana loss.

[addonex666]

"I still think classes need a talent tree that is pure PVP. Be it a completely new tree or retrofit one of the 3 trees for each class as pvp. There are certain mechanics that make PVP just plain not fun."


I was kinda thinking in the other direction. Remove all PVP talents from the talent trees and make snares, fears, roots, dispels etc. part of the class itself. Think about it. We ask Bliz to balance the classes but there are really 31 (think, druids kinda have 4) specs to try to balance. Put the PVP talents as a Class baseline then you only have 10 to juxtapose and that would make things a lot easier. When every class has the same set of tools as apposed to every spec comparing them for balance isn't so monumental a task. Will that take some of the diversity away? Maybe, maybe not. Lets say the put talents in the trees that enhance the CC's so you can customize to your play style but it's basically the same cc for comparisons sake. As apposed to, lets say, Destros Shadowfury and Afflictions fear slow. As long as 31 specs vary so much you'll never have balance. Homogenizing not the classes, but the specs within them.

[nilnar]

@Seclorum: You know they nerfed ua silence right? Somehow I don't think its their intention that UA is never dispelled.

[Jademist]

Its times like this i hate being the least played class, in a fkn popularity contests for answers to questions

And 2 hunter pvp questions, i give up

There were no Shaman questions answered either.

So yeah...don't go around feeling all special.

[nilnar]

"I still think classes need a talent tree that is pure PVP. Be it a completely new tree or retrofit one of the 3 trees for each class as pvp. There are certain mechanics that make PVP just plain not fun."


I was kinda thinking in the other direction. Remove all PVP talents from the talent trees and make snares, fears, roots, dispels etc. part of the class itself. Think about it. We ask Bliz to balance the classes but there are really 31 (think, druids kinda have 4) specs to try to balance. Put the PVP talents as a Class baseline then you only have 10 to juxtapose and that would make things a lot easier. When every class has the same set of tools as apposed to every spec comparing them for balance isn't so monumental a task. Will that take some of the diversity away? Maybe, maybe not. Lets say the put talents in the trees that enhance the CC's so you can customize to your play style but it's basically the same cc for comparisons sake. As apposed to, lets say, Destros Shadowfury and Afflictions fear slow. As long as 31 specs vary so much you'll never have balance. Homogenizing not the classes, but the specs within them.

For warlocks the differences between specs in terms of cc and pvp only abilities is very slim. Fear slows, instant howl, shadowfury, guldan root/stun, felguard pvp abilities. That's basically it for the real major differences. The vast difference between specs comes through how they deal damage, not how they cc (ie. affliction can spread its dots quickly and easily and maintain them basically with just instant casts - demo relies on slow casted nukes, which is terrible - destro also has mostly casted nukes and its main burst is easily countered with dispels)

[Deleted]

Unstable Affliction: When dispelled causes 20k Damage to the Dispeler. Causes the Dispeler to gain a stack of "Unstable Feedback" that lasts for 30 Seconds. Every time the Dispeler is afflicted by "Unstable Feedback" they loose 2% Total Mana Per Stack and Cannot Regenerate mana from any source for 5 seconds. While Unstable Afliction is on a target it is always removed first by any dispell mechanics.

This Version isnt as overtly punishing as the last one. "Unstable Feedback" Cannot be dispelled so it forces a consequence on the healer for Dispel spamming. This way if they keep spamming dispel they face horrendous damage and mana loss.

With this change UA would need an CD. But the idea with included manaburn if the healer dispel UA is fu**** great.

~ Agoni

[roahn the warlock]

They didn't answer a single warlock question, because they cant think of one. sure affliction and demonology blow in pve, and hellfire is worthless on every raid fight but heroic halfus, but destruction is working fine with a rotation thats harder than the solo from free bird. shoulda rolled mage

[Restohealz]

Honestly Were not broken. Neither are hunters but still.

Things I would love to see addressed are.
Shadows embrace taking too long to stack up and punishing us for having to move.
Why does the Sucubus beat out Glyphed and talented Felguard in DPS?
Why is there so much focus in Demonology for AOE when they wanted all dps to focus on Single target abilities more?
Is there anything being done to stop penalizeing Warlocks in PVP from dispell spam?

First. this was the first round of Answers. not the last. Second. i did'nt see many GOOD warlock questions get asked. they can't address them all. and most were just complaints of how ppl would rather play their class. and not all agree on that, and never will.

i would start with reading patch notes as well.

I don't exactly agree there is anything wrong with shadow's embrace. it's annoying when it fall's off, but i don't think they really intended it to be 100% uptime without work and effort put forth to do so.
in 4.1:
Felhound is getting buffed and will be top dps again for afflic.
Both Seed and Rain of fire are getting buffed.

And the Dispelling issue is a never ending argument.

and for some of the other complaints in this thread : Afflic is getting buffed, Demo is'nt broken, it's not top dps for most fights, but still does good dps if you practice and play it properly. and Desto is NOT hard to play at all. complaints like these is why your questions do not receive answers.

Should they really address things that have already been addressed, or just 1 person's opinon of somthing being broken that is not?

[Plink]

I've played a lock since 2005 and it's been a really fun class for sure. It's always been a difficult class with exceptions in it's history like fear spam for pvp and SB spam in PVE. I think that perhaps the one thing that makes locks a bit frustrating for me in recent years is the pretty strong avoidance of feedback by Blizzard. They don't really seem eager to discuss class design or reasoning's. Warriors, Paladins and Druids seem to get copious amounts of class design philosophy 101 by GS. Warlocks for better or worse look like a class that has been designed Ad Hoc.

I wouldn't expect extensive feedback outside of patch notes on warlock design. That's because I don't think they have a clear vision of what they want it to be. To their credit the class has meandered to a decent spot for dps in pve. I think a lot of people who play locks do so because they enjoy the complexity of getting it right. For me personally, I don't think you're ever going to see a big dynamic change in the class so you better like it the way it is, warts and all.

[addonex666]

For warlocks the differences between specs in terms of cc and pvp only abilities is very slim. Fear slows, instant howl, shadowfury, guldan root/stun, felguard pvp abilities. That's basically it for the real major differences. The vast difference between specs comes through how they deal damage, not how they cc (ie. affliction can spread its dots quickly and easily and maintain them basically with just instant casts - demo relies on slow casted nukes, which is terrible - destro also has mostly casted nukes and its main burst is easily countered with dispels)

Yea, I see your point and I agree, but there has to be something to be done to balance it a little better. For Christs sake, it's a video game. I was doing some BGs last night and what DKs were doing to me was criminal. AMS, Mindfreeze, Strangulate and I was dead. Granted I'm not great at PVP and my gear sucks right now but 1 class was clearly dominate against me. I'm not QQing, I expected to get my ass handed to me and I did. I just think they could balance it a little better than they have.

[GrimNights]

Some people play other specs just saying UA isn't the only dot in need of dispel protection
I rather distrustful of blizz and locks just saying, they have our nerfs posted on the company calenders <.<
Sometimes no news is good news but then again it is blizz. -__-

[Seclorum]

Some people play other specs just saying UA isn't the only dot in need of dispel protection
I rather distrustful of blizz and locks just saying, they have our nerfs posted on the company calenders <.<
Sometimes no news is good news but then again it is blizz. -__-

True. at least we can say we have had what? 2 patches without total and complete nerfs only?

[Demonidze]

True. at least we can say we have had what? 2 patches without total and complete nerfs only?

its the silence before the storm!