SWTOR information gathered thus far from various sources

[unkn0wnerr0r]

It has raiding, PVP, open world bosses, heroic dungeons, etc. Thats about all the endgame content in WoW. Plus they did say they were also going to add something new to endgame, which hasn't been said much yet.

All the other details like how big are the raid sizes, how many raids at release, etc are something you don't get until close to release.

You also have to remember that because of the engine they can create new stuff much, much faster than most mmos. The only one that comes close would be RIFT right now. Even then one of the dev interviews talked about them being able to do the same thing thats taken RIFT a few weeks to do in a few days. So I expect lots of content to be available relatively quickly after release.

[Mothhive]

even then, plasticy is a step up from papery =P The armor actually looks like its separate from the character. Most MMOs today, the armor looks like its glued to the characters skin.

I can't think of a single big name MMO that has armor that looks like it's glued to a characters skin, so I really don't know where you got "Most" from.

Care to give examples with screenshots?

The only example of such a thing I could find after a few minutes of googling was from a game in Beta, so it would be a bit harsh to judge it.

[orderschvank]

this should be the official SWTOR bulk info post!!! haha


im definitely lookin forward to this machine

does anyone know if it will have a monthly fee or 1 time thing??

[Mothhive]

this should be the official SWTOR bulk info post!!! haha


im definitely lookin forward to this machine

does anyone know if it will have a monthly fee or 1 time thing??

I don't think it's been officially announced yet, but I think it's pretty much a given that it will have a monthly fee, especially considering how much money has been sunk into it's development.

[ImNot1337]

I can't think of a single big name MMO that has armor that looks like it's glued to a characters skin, so I really don't know where you got "Most" from.

City of Heroes/Villians
DDO

That's off the top of my head right off. There's more though. A lot of games have the "glued to body" look. IMHO it's just a graphics style, either you love it or hate it. However, from the videos shown at PAX looks like they are moving away from the "glued on" look quite a bit.

At any rate, looks a hell of a lot better than some other betas I've seen. You have no idea the horrors I've witnessed.

[Mothhive]

City of Heroes/Villians
DDO

That's off the top of my head right off. There's more though. A lot of games have the "glued to body" look. IMHO it's just a graphics style, either you love it or hate it. However, from the videos shown at PAX looks like they are moving away from the "glued on" look quite a bit.

At any rate, looks a hell of a lot better than some other betas I've seen. You have no idea the horrors I've witnessed.

Ok, can see that with DDO, but I think it's intentional in CoH/CoV. Heroes and Villains sure do love their spandex!

Either way, it's a far cry from "Most MMOs".

[ImNot1337]

Ok, can see that with DDO, but I think it's intentional in CoH/CoV. Heroes and Villains sure do love their spandex!

Either way, it's a far cry from "Most MMOs".

I think Chronicles of Spellborn (dead game) and Saga of Ryzom had the painted on look as well. There were a buttload of F2Ps that I played (I was going through a phase. :\ ) that had the same look as well. I wouldn't say "Most MMOs" because I don't have any exact numbers, but I'd say it's not an unknown thing. Even still, SWTOR isn't really going that route long-term it seems. So, possibly a moot point.

SWTOR graphics IMHO are fine, but a game needs a hell of a lot more than good graphics to impress me. I've played far too many graphically beautiful but mind-numbingly boring games.

Also, even though they have announced nothing, I can't see this game not going Pay to Play. I do wonder if they will go a Star Trek Online route and offer Lifetime subs, or if they'll go an Everquest II route and offer some kind of F2P/P2P hybrid model.

[nyhcjedi]

WoW... can i say that space combat looks lame? I was expecting something at least Freelancer style, (i know the joystick is all but non-existent these days RIP X-wing vs Tie fighter) But a rail space shooter?....maybe if they make it as fun as Star Fox it'll be cool lol.

so far Guild Wars 2 seems to be the most exciting of the new MMOs to me. but i'll still give SWTOR a shot, tho the space combat is disappointing too me...

*sigh* they just don't make space games like they used too... *reminisces about Wing Commander and Privater*

yea space combat is what makes the universe feel like star wars. I mean the old jedis and sith were pilots (many were). This rail crap looks l awful and to me is a huge let down. The rpg kiddos will say that it is a mini game within the full game. Thats fine but I thought it was a in depth immersive universe with a very open system? Rail shooter sounds like a control game.

[Deleted]

The rpg kiddos will say that it is a mini game within the full game

The developers or whoever have confirmed that it's a mini game. Who knows though, they might expand on the idea in a future patch.

[ImNot1337]

yea space combat is what makes the universe feel like star wars. I mean the old jedis and sith were pilots (many were). This rail crap looks l awful and to me is a huge let down. The rpg kiddos will say that it is a mini game within the full game. Thats fine but I thought it was a in depth immersive universe with a very open system? Rail shooter sounds like a control game.

Considering that the game originally had no space combat, then folks freaked (understandably!) and in response they added the rail shooter, I'll take it for what it's worth. The Jedi and Sith were much more than just pilots.

Personally, I would have liked something more akin to the Tie-fighter/Wing commander games or SWG's Jump to Lightspeed xpac (at the minimum), but don't be trashin' on Star Fox, son.

"Check your G-diffuser system!"

Good times.

[nyhcjedi]

Considering that the game originally had no space combat, then folks freaked (understandably!) and in response they added the rail shooter, I'll take it for what it's worth. The Jedi and Sith were much more than just pilots.

Personally, I would have liked something more akin to the Tie-fighter/Wing commander games or SWG's Jump to Lightspeed xpac (at the minimum), but don't be trashin' on Star Fox, son.

"Check your G-diffuser system!"

Good times.

ehh they should have put effort in and made the game that more fans would appreciate. A rail shooter bastardizes the star wars name. Look at rogue squadron.

[moaradin]

Nothing wrong with rail shooter. It looks great. Rail shooters are probably the best way to have a cinematic moment from Star Wars than anything else. No other MMO has a rail shooter, so its nothing but a plus.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 08:20 PM ----------

I can't think of a single big name MMO that has armor that looks like it's glued to a characters skin, so I really don't know where you got "Most" from.

Care to give examples with screenshots?

The only example of such a thing I could find after a few minutes of googling was from a game in Beta, so it would be a bit harsh to judge it.

what, did you look for the oldest screenshot you could find?





notice how the armor looks like its a separate piece of the character.



Notice how the armor is pretty much glued to the skin. It's on the same layer as the skin.

[ImNot1337]

No other MMO has a rail shooter, so its nothing but a plus.

Err, but there are MMOs that have true 3D space combat. That's what people will bitch about. (Well, they have already started bitching. >.>). I see it as a plus because a) when SWG launched it didn't have space combat...period and b) I like rail shooters. :P

[moaradin]

Err, but there are MMOs that have true 3D space combat. That's what people will bitch about. (Well, they have already started bitching. >.>). I see it as a plus because a) when SWG launched it didn't have space combat...period and b) I like rail shooters. :P

Yea, there are MMOs with 3d space combat, but that is the focus. There is no land combat most of the time. If you try to get both out, you'll get a mess like Star Trek Online.

[Acidbaron]

let's just be honest a lot of us when looking at SWToR and Space content was announced we expected to see something as in SWG but then far greater, this is not what they announced and does really appear to be a quick answer to "let's just give them something" a minigame what the developers have mentioned and people have their right to be disappointed about it.

[Trollsbane]

In case it was missed, here's the friday update showing a sneak peak at armor progression for a Jedi Knight:



*Was also added to front page*

[Mothhive]

what, did you look for the oldest screenshot you could find?

Nope, but it was the only one that fit the "armor glued to skin" criteria that I found while looking, which made me giggle. I know it was from an early, early alpha (says 2008 right at the bottom of the screenshot), but I only posted it as a subtle joke to you. Too subtle I guess since it sparked defensive screenshots (including the screenshot, which I'm suprised isn't in your sig to save you manually posting it in each post)!

Anyway, your example to prove "Most" MMOs are like that is taken from one ancient game's early, low level armor, and isn't even representative of the majority of that game's armor, never mind other MMOs which are generally graphically superior to it.

Anyone can post screenshots that give false impressions of the rest of the game.


(not even an old one this time!)

[Trollsbane]

misspellings don't discredit it off as a review however, i still say assumptions is the mother of all fuck ups.

My point is and still is if you go on and say "it will have everything!" it is spreading a misconception as the game won't have every endgame element other mmo's have and those are a lot. But your choice to not embrace skepticsm

Of course I am a bit skeptic. Overall I have faith in Bioware, but I've been looking forward to this game since it was first announced. That makes it prime for a huge letdown in the end. But the more I see, the more confident I become that they are actually doing it right. The biggest thing that wows me is the sheer number of animations and all the little details that many people miss. Like the clipping the feet from the cape, or the amazing wrist movements of the characters, or the seperate animations for every move. Those things do a lot for me. I hear the gameplay is pretty good, and it's easy to get the swing of it. That's another thing. I'm a gameplay lover far more than a graphics lover. Combine them, and add a great story; well that's my bag. =)

As for negative reviews and such, I have no problem adding them if they are objective and know what they are talking about. Angry Joes "most anticipated games of 2011" says that there is an auto attack still ingame and that games like Rift are taking huge steps to innvovate and TOR is playing safe. (Other games, yeah, they are. Rift, sorry, but not so much) Or, "the first mission is, go kill 10 evil cave rats as a sith lord. I know. I did it." Except that you are no sith lord and still aren't a good enough sith to earn a lightsaber... He said he's played several hours of the game.. Sorry, but no man, you haven't. He discredits himself by trying to blow things (that may even be somewhat true) way out of porportion.

And here's the review from the guy that was appaled that a smuggler could heal and my write-up as to why he's full of shit as well:

http://www.mmofringe.com/content/fri...1-review-swtor

Didn't see anything incorrect in that, so far i know points like not wanting an open-world is something Bioware is not for and they did say long ago they expect people to reroll and experience it again, the story comes above all.

OK, first off, like I said, he calls it Tarval 5. He can't even be bothered to get the name correct. And since TOR is an open world, I don't know what you mean they are against it... And here are his points:

5. The Bioware rep at the Future of Online Gaming panel, James Ohlen, doesn't believe the future of gaming involves open worlds. Bioware's mindset is that it is storyline that will be most important in an mmo's success. And when you finish the storyline, roll an alt and go at it form a different angle.

6. Bioware DOES NOT read it's forums or other forums for player issues or bugs. It makes its choice of issues and player discontent off of ingame metrics, bug reports and test servers. Nothing else will garner its attention per Ohlen.

7. Server plans for things like population and total starting number of servers for the launch have not been discussed yet.

8. The leaders of one of the major fansites for the game are having personal issues with supporting SWTOR because the lack of information, the gameplay and the seeming possibility that it may launch without the polish it needs to be successful.

9. Several reporters for the industry that we talked to seem to agree that it will sell about 2 million copies but the subscription numbers will take a dip due to the gameplay being quite familiar with everything else we have seen and the rather limited features it will have at launch.

And so to wrap all of this up, what does all this mean to you. If you are an SWG fan of old, SWTOR may not be for you. NGE fans may find it appealing due to the fast pace, clicking nature of the game and all of the particle effects that come with it. The game will provide log in and play entertainment for solo play and large groups. But this will come in the form of action and furthering your character's storyline progression. You may not see much in the terms of innovation to combat, crafting or downtime entertainment. And while this demo had plenty going for it - the clues left at the conference give me the impression that anything earlier than a late 2011 launch may be a bad move.

kef out.

5. His actual quote was: Question: Where do you see online games going in the next 10 year?

Answer: James Ohlen -- working on Star Wars: The Old Republic
Well, I'm going to have to take a contrary opinion to [Colin]. I have been with BioWare for a long time, so I'm kind of a little bit biased on the story end. I really do believe though that MMORPGs are RPGs at heart. If you look at MMORPGs as roleplaying games over the years, they have been more and more focused on story. And story is being made better and more immersive and more cinematic. You have seen a lot of improvements in RPGs. In MMORPGs, you haven't been seeing as many improvements, but I think you are in the next decade, or at least, I hope we are because that's the kind of game I want to play, not because I'm working on Star Wars: The Old Republic right now and that's what it's all about. I hope that's what we do see in 10 years, and it's probably going to happen.

So no, he does not say that the future does not include open worlds. He says he think story will be a bigger focus.

6. Bullshit Here's what they said:

I don't know where the notion came from that we only use metrics and not feedback. Because that's completely not true and not at all what James said.
We use metrics to understand feedback and put context on it. We use them to identify outliers and things that are broken, but we are not using them as a primary driver to design the game.
The example James used was about how we use metrics to validate and measure the results of specific design changes toward a specific goal (create more group friendly content in this case).

Regardless of what James may have said - and without a time reference I can't jump to it to confirm or deny - I can guarantee you the development team does not solely rely on metrics for user feedback.
While metrics are a very important part of the process (especially in large scale tests), user feedback is critical too, and has led to many design choices, as Georg and others have mentioned in the past.
To be fair, feedback from people who are actually playing the game (Game Testers) is more valuable to the development team than feedback from those who have not (much of the Forums). Even then, some decisions have been made (Jedi Wizard -> Sage, anyone?) based off feedback from the wider community.

7: Not publically anyway

8: Oh really? Every big fansite they have wrote raving reviews. But sure, keep your secret source and go ahead and spread the rumor. /sigh

9: Sure. Again, w/e

Wrap up:

NGE fans may find it appealing due to the fast pace, clicking nature of the game and all of the particle effects that come with it.

Um... Really? wtf are you talking about dude? It was a demo of a level 32 instance in a game they haven't played yet. No one had hotkeys and no one knew what they were really doing

You may not see much in the terms of innovation to combat, crafting or downtime entertainment.

And you know that how? Actually, the crafting is pretty different than people are used to. And the pure number of combat animations alone is staggering. While the system may not differ from the others, at least it's not stale

Anyhow, he is blabbering about shit and making shit up. He's a tool.


So, if people find things they want added to the front page, good or bad, just let me know. But if it is something like that, where the person is so far left field that I start checking my own pants to see if the shit is leaking over, I'm not gonna post it.

[moaradin]

Nope, but it was the only one that fit the "armor glued to skin" criteria that I found while looking, which made me giggle. I know it was from an early, early alpha (says 2008 right at the bottom of the screenshot), but I only posted it as a subtle joke to you. Too subtle I guess since it sparked defensive screenshots (including the screenshot, which I'm suprised isn't in your sig to save you manually posting it in each post)!

Anyway, your example to prove "Most" MMOs are like that is taken from one ancient game's early, low level armor, and isn't even representative of the majority of that game's armor, never mind other MMOs which are generally graphically superior to it.

Anyone can post screenshots that give false impressions of the rest of the game.


(not even an old one this time!)

FYI, that is an old screenshot. The ones I linked are fairly new. That one isn't.

The WoW screenshot didn't look like that because it was early in the game. It looks the same no matter what part of the game you're in. The armor textures pretty much go over your character texture.



Thats endgame armor and its the same thing. The armor is just 1 big texture with no separate parts.

[Acidbaron]

My sceptism comment was more aimed at faith in bioware that they'll deliver everyones dreams. What is simply not true even if they deliver a good mmo some will be disappointed with what they are given as it's not for them, that's what i'm simply getting at if you say "everything will be in" you might refer to everything know as in wow but others read it differently. I've been around long enough that not everything that shines is made out of gold, videos can look really well so do pictures.

With being against an open world, it's probably best that i explain what i have always seen those years under that definition that being an open world without boundries or travel limits, a world where not every place has to have a direct purpose or be a hub for mobs/npcs. Bioware has stated they don't see the point in areas that serve no purpose, those areas are not epic either and contribute not to the story they are wanting to tell.
I see SWToR "open world" as AoC that being large areas, but the areas are connected, zoning points.

First off i'm not going to defend anyone here, just going to explain from my view.
I think most of those points got the some critism on the site and was explained there, i don't see how point 5 however is a contridiction, he states it is going back more to RPG's, in otherwords the story setting becoming more important not so much the rest. Combine this with previous statements on it all and it fits the picture, their aim is to deliver a good story not so much to deliver a massive multiplayer online atmosphere. he's not speaking of multiplayer features, he's not speaking of community, he's not speaking of big open worlds, he's speaking of the story, sorry but while on the other points i can understand your critique and disbelief here i cannot.

The point of them not really reading forums came after that critism was aired, true or false it made them more active on the forums i've been told.

Why so angry about point 9 though, i find that a fairly accurate estimation, SWToR is not really groundbreaking on terms of gameplay, gameplay won't be different at level 32 as it will be at max level either using an ability or fighting won't change, the basics picked up at that level will be the same.
The crafting might be different from WoW but the whole modification system has been used a couple of times, i think the only thing different is the offline gathering from companions, funny enough this was something that was first announced in AoC but later scratched.

People will have different opinions and will find things bad in the game, for example i find the idea that companions should be added in teams and PvP completely a major flaw, luckly a lot of people did so aswel even those testing the game and it got changed. Now if those people automatically assumed it to be great and just went ahead and insulted everyone else that disagreed you end up with nasty situations nobody wins.
There's always some truth in every type of critism, in the past i saw people break down features of games finding them unreasonable eventually i learned it truely had some truth in and and several people with different opinions disliked it.