Arcane, good dps but low damage done

[Edg]

I recently joined a raiding guild and they asked me to spec Arcane. I have noticed that my DPS is comparable to most other DPSers but my damage done usually lands me near the last of the DPSers. I am just wondering if other Arcane Mages are noticing this also or if it's more of an issue of me not getting to my safe spots to cast quick enough. I know Arcane is supposed to be getting buffed but I fear it's not going to make much an impact for me as far as damage done, which I always thought damage done was very important or is that not true?

Wasn't sure where to ask something like this so I apologize ahead of time if this isn't an appropriate question, also any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated.

[niteline]

you have an awesome amouth of CD's to pop. thats why, next patch ull see ur dps go sky rocket. have fun then!

[Alvito]

I recently joined a raiding guild and they asked me to spec Arcane. I have noticed that my DPS is comparable to most other DPSers but my damage done usually lands me near the last of the DPSers. I am just wondering if other Arcane Mages are noticing this also or if it's more of an issue of me not getting to my safe spots to cast quick enough. I know Arcane is supposed to be getting buffed but I fear it's not going to make much an impact for me as far as damage done, which I always thought damage done was very important or is that not true?

Wasn't sure where to ask something like this so I apologize ahead of time if this isn't an appropriate question, also any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated.

Damage done is all that really matters. High dps can be a good way to know you have great burst dmg but that can be misleading also. If they asked you to switch arcane I would start looking for a smarter raid group. Sure arcane is getting more buffs soon but thats then not now unless they want you to be well practiced by then.

[knaackg]

Damage done is all that really matters. High dps can be a good way to know you have great burst dmg but that can be misleading also. If they asked you to switch arcane I would start looking for a smarter raid group. Sure arcane is getting more buffs soon but thats then not now unless they want you to be well practiced by then.

i think they could very well want him for Arcane Tactics, the 3% raid dmg buff

[Damrak]

The reason your DPS is comparable and your overall damage isn't is because you have no dots. Recount isnt recording anything while you're not doing damage, unlike classes with dots whose recount keeps recording and updating their dps everytime a dot ticks. Go by overall damage, it's what you should be going for.

Arcane is getting buffed pretty nicely, and, if you enjoy playing it, stick with it.

[keelea]

Damage done is all that really matters. High dps can be a good way to know you have great burst dmg but that can be misleading also. If they asked you to switch arcane I would start looking for a smarter raid group. Sure arcane is getting more buffs soon but thats then not now unless they want you to be well practiced by then.

Either Arcane Tactics (as listed above) or Slow (For bosses like Maloriak, where Curse of Tongues and Slow rule all in terms of interrupting). Your damage done will potentionally sky rocket in 4.1 with those changes to Arcane, but it's yet to be seen. Going to have to wait to see which spec will rule out.

[Edg]

Thank you very much for the quick replies!

Sorry, yes the reason they asked me to spec Arcane was for Arcane tactics. They need a backup for the 3% buff.

I really appreciate the responses, thanks again!

[Dacomp89]

The reason your DPS is comparable and your overall damage isn't is because you have no dots. Recount isnt recording anything while you're not doing damage, unlike classes with dots whose recount keeps recording and updating their dps everytime a dot ticks. Go by overall damage, it's what you should be going for.

Arcane is getting buffed pretty nicely, and, if you enjoy playing it, stick with it.

This is essentially correct, but the disparity between dps and overall damage for arcane comes mainly from fights with movement. If you don't have to move, both your dps and overall damage should be high. If you have to move, your dps will be high because during movement you are doing 0 damage and the time is not recorded, but clearly your overall damage will be low since you are spending so much time doing 0 damage. Movement is why arcane is subpar at the moment, nothing you can do about that except try to limit your moving as much as possible, which is not all that feasible.

[Varyk]

First of all dps is absolutely worthless. Damage done is the important number. Doing 26k and dying 45 seconds in the fight isn't helping anybody.

[Deleted]

First of all dps is absolutely worthless. Damage done is the important number. Doing 26k and dying 45 seconds in the fight isn't helping anybody.

Why do you have to die after 45 seconds as arcane? I know they are good but I'm pretty sure x4 stack AB doesn't say on the tool tip. 'You will explode for 200,000hp (stacks up to 4 times) after 45 seconds'

Arcane does as the OP says - do massive DPS but average damage (sometimes). Blows all other DPS away, but not damage. However 4.1 that will change. Oh and to the people who say you can't raid with arcane in cata (have you tried?). If your a very skilled mage you can and have good dps and damage.

If you know the fights you know when to burst, when to move so how is it such a problem for you? For when you want adds yea fire is best for damage atm, but only because of range, 12k talented arcane explosions crits will soon be well over 20k plus as fast as your fingers cans spam.

Come in Patch 4.1, your time is up!

[narzinor]

Why do you have to die after 45 seconds as arcane? I know they are good but I'm pretty sure x4 stack AB doesn't say on the tool tip. 'You will explode for 200,000hp (stacks up to 4 times) after 45 seconds'

I believe his point went right over your head. It was a general statement. DPS should be used as a general indicator as to how good a person is doing. However, if you rely on it solely, you could be top DPS over the fight, but have died 30 seconds in, whereas someone who did only half your DPS lived the entire fight, and over a fight lasting more than a minute, guess who did more damage in my example.

to the OP: If you were to change your recount settings to keep recording as long as you're in combat, then you would see that really, you're doing alot less DPS than you think you are doing throughout the fight, based on it's time and your overall damage done. The DPS that this change would show is a closer and more accurate measure of what you're really doing.

However, the culprit for this would be the already stated ideas. Arcane has no dots, and it's priority system/rotation is affected more by high mobility fights than other classes/specs.

[Deleted]

hey, there is one 'dot' every 60secs ^^

[Zavri]

Arcane if played perfectly is in a decent spot for dps.

Arcane on Cho'gall [sloppy kill] http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7773&e=8292

Arcane on Magmaw: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=515&e=834

Just to give you an idea thats if played right, the spec is fine. With the buff I definitly see arcane being the top single target dps of any class.

[Deleted]

I'm going to assume this is all referring to normal modes.

Arcane is a truly horrible specc atm for most of the heroic encounters, there's simply too much movement to make it viable, or too many situations where AoE is a necessity.

At the moment it simply just isn't viable for the majority of the fights, with the exception of Chimaeron which for DPS ultimately boils to standing and nuking, occasionally moving to a designated area - rinse and repeat.

Even after the buffs, this is the ONLY encounter we currently do (7/13 HC atm) where I would consider switching from Fire.

EDIT: To the post above, simply by linking your own experience of a kill (where the DPS is pretty low in general) does not for a second mean it's a viable specc.

[Zavri]

I'm going to assume this is all referring to normal modes.

Arcane is a truly horrible specc atm for most of the heroic encounters, there's simply too much movement to make it viable, or too many situations where AoE is a necessity.

At the moment it simply just isn't viable for the majority of the fights, with the exception of Chimaeron which for DPS ultimately boils to standing and nuking, occasionally moving to a designated area - rinse and repeat.

Even after the buffs, this is the ONLY encounter we currently do (7/13 HC atm) where I would consider switching from Fire.

EDIT: To the post above, simply by linking your own experience of a kill (where the DPS is pretty low in general) does not for a second mean it's a viable specc.

It was more of to show the guy whos on bottom of dps in normal modes that he shouldn't be.

Obviously in heroic modes you switch specs depending on the fight, thats just a given.

[GreatBlueMage]

I play Arcane because I've been Arcane since I leveled my mage and fuck you for saying I'm wrong for it. I can live with being middle of the pack DPS.

[Alvito]

i think they could very well want him for Arcane Tactics, the 3% raid dmg buff

There are betters specs to bring in for that. Sometimes you are stuck with none of one class or too many of others and have to work with what you have I guess.

---------- Post added 2011-03-26 at 09:03 AM ----------

I play Arcane because I've been Arcane since I leveled my mage and fuck you for saying I'm wrong for it. I can live with being middle of the pack DPS.

Nobody is saying you or any of the other die hard or stuborn arcane mages are wrong. No more then I would tell a person sawing a tree down with a nail file they are doing it wrong. I would however point out that there are better tools for the job.

[indigosbro]

Alright, to put it completely simply. The reason why your "DPS" is high, is because as it is, even before the 4.1 buffs, arcane ranks as one of the highest standstill DPS specs, which is really only good on fights like chimaeron with little to no movement. Now here comes the "hard" part to understand *cough*. Overall damage on meters does not take into account the majority of the time that you are not casting, arcane has absolutely terrible damage while moving, the only spell you have while moving is arcane barrage, therefore all the classes/specs that have some sort of residual damage, or damage on the run will continue to be doing damage to the boss during movement phases, albeit at a lower "DPS". In the end though it ends up netting a higher "overall" damage.

[Alvito]

Look at your activitiy if its low that explains low dmg also. Ppl with lower dps but higher dmg then you will almost always have much higher time on target then you did.

[Deleted]

The issue is simply that when your CD's are used, your dps suddenly shoots up. When they are on cd your dps will go down to show what your standard dps is. Your CD's may only be up for a small period of the fight, but if the fight ends just after you've used your CD's then yes... your dps will be high, but your damage done will show what the rest of the fight has been like for you.

Atm the other spec's should be more reliable for the entire fight, maybe arcane will be just as good once the buffs come in 4.1.

It's also possible that your raid needs a good burst dps for certain parts of a fight? Find out what they think, but if they just think arcane is better because of their experiance in WotLK, then either teach them otherwise or find a smarter guild.