Arcane Nerf? I don't understand.

[sidelsky18]

Arcane DPS is pretty terrible on live, easily within the lowest 3-4 DPS specs. We saw the light at the end of the tunnel with these changes a few days ago:

*Arcane Barrage base damage has been increased by 13%.
*Arcane Blast base damage has been increased by 13%. Now also increases the damage of Arcane Explosion.
*Arcane Explosion bas damage has been increased by 13%.
*Arcane Missiles base damage has been increased by 13%.
*Improved Arcane Explosion now also reduces the mana cost by 25/50%.

This pretty much fixed our DPS concerns. Our single target DPS had been buffed reasonably and our AoE which made us go OOM quickly was given a lower mana cost.

But today in the spell changes found by MMOC (which are usually correct), we get this change:

*Arcane Blast now has a 2.2 sec cast time, down from 2.5 sec. Base damage reduced by 12%, from [ 1933 - 2247 ] to [ 1710 - 1988 ]

Considering a good portion (read: 75%-90%) of our single target DPS is done by Arcane Blast, this is a big nerf as Arcane Blast actually does LESS damage than it does on live (100% + 13% = 113% - 12% = 99.44%).

But wait, you say, the cast time was lowered! Well that's the problem, as it doesn't increase our DPS at all, if anything it's a nerf as it would keep us at 4 stacks of the AB debuff more, resulting in more mana used (which is pretty balanced currently).

So far on the PTR (if this newest change is correct), we're getting a slight nerf or minor buff (at best) to Arcane Blast, and a buff to our other spells (that make up 10%-25% of our damage). What are your opinions?

[Deleted]

So wait, a 0.3 second cast time reduction and a 0.56% damage reduction don't make a buff?

It may make it more challenging to manage your mana as more haste = more mana used, but haste = more casts = more damage = your logic is faulty.

[sidelsky18]

So wait, a 0.3 second cast time reduction and a 0.56% damage reduction don't make a buff?

It may make it more challenging to manage your mana as more haste = more mana used, but haste = more casts = more damage = your logic is faulty.

It is a buff, but a minor one. The increase in damage will be countered by a lower amount of time spent use AB's with 4 stacks and having to resort to lesser damaging spells.

The simple fact whether or not it's a buff is that it's not enough, nor does it fix the "one-button spec" problem.

[Slavemaker]

So wait, a 0.3 second cast time reduction and a 0.56% damage reduction don't make a buff?

It may make it more challenging to manage your mana as more haste = more mana used, but haste = more casts = more damage = your logic is faulty.

Yeah this is what I was thinking... I mean I figured people would have thought of this almost instantly but I guess they see "12% damage reduction" and think "OH MY GOD TWELVE PERCENT OMFG NERFED AGAIN" ugh...

[Mudkiper]

Arcane DPS is pretty terrible on live, easily within the lowest 3-4 DPS specs. We saw the light at the end of the tunnel with these changes a few days ago:

What? By within the LOWEST 3-4 DPS specs, you need.. the 3rd highest behind hunters?

http://simulationcraft.org/406/Raid_T11_372.html

[Hinalover]

it's a dps neutral. They are just increasing the amount of arcane blasts cast (it's a 12% cast reduction) but lowering it's damage (by 12%). If anything this is going to activate more arcane missles and arcane barrages since this will allow for more procs to happen. This will be more helpful during the non-burn phases when your trying to keep your mana at or around the 90% mark.

[Abandon]

What? By within the LOWEST 3-4 DPS specs, you need.. the 3rd highest behind hunters?

http://simulationcraft.org/406/Raid_T11_372.html

Not everyone has Shard of Woe...

[Swizzle]

What? By within the LOWEST 3-4 DPS specs, you need.. the 3rd highest behind hunters?

http://simulationcraft.org/406/Raid_T11_372.html

Yeah, if the fight is a Patchwerk fight with no adds or movement. Man...just thinkin' of all the fights we have like that this tier is breaking my mind.

[Kidder]

note that its missing the 13% buff also

[Slowshi]

The damage was scaled back to what it is live. 1710-1888 on PTR vs 1711-1887 on Live. Cast time reduced by .3 which correlates to 1.2 sec faster AB4x stacking. This will increase dps in both Burn and Conserve phases. It will offset the already lengthy burn phases. Overall it's still a buff but probably not as high as it would have been, but that is at the cost of making the spec work closer to the way it was designed; actually having to conserve mana and do decent dps while maintaining it.

[Dacomp89]

Faster cast should improve mobility a bit at least.

[Hammut]

You should wait until all of the changes are in. There's no use getting upset over PTR changes. When they are all in and complete then you can commence the QQ.

[Deleted]

Wont lowering the base cast time also affect the SP coeffient?

Or did blizzard scrap that for cataclysm ?

But im all in for faster cast time, with the t11 4set bonus its going to be fun

[Ohana]

it's a dps neutral. They are just increasing the amount of arcane blasts cast (it's a 12% cast reduction) but lowering it's damage (by 12%). If anything this is going to activate more arcane missles and arcane barrages since this will allow for more procs to happen. This will be more helpful during the non-burn phases when your trying to keep your mana at or around the 90% mark.

Yeah, but don't forget Arcane Missiles are hitting like a pillow...

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 11:30 PM ----------

The damage was scaled back to what it is live. 1710-1888 on PTR vs 1711-1887 on Live. Cast time reduced by .3 which correlates to 1.2 sec faster AB4x stacking. This will increase dps in both Burn and Conserve phases. It will offset the already lengthy burn phases. Overall it's still a buff but probably not as high as it would have been, but that is at the cost of making the spec work closer to the way it was designed; actually having to conserve mana and do decent dps while maintaining it.

It won't increase dps at all, we'll cast faster but not harder
This is really upseting...

[Slowshi]

It won't increase dps at all, we'll cast faster but not harder
This is really upseting...

For those who have trouble understanding, this is more of a PvP nerf than anything. This is still a DPS buff. Damage per second has two factors.. damage and time. If time is decreased, DPS is increased. derp derp do you understand now?

[Mudkiper]

Yeah, if the fight is a Patchwerk fight with no adds or movement. Man...just thinkin' of all the fights we have like that this tier is breaking my mind.

Yeh and every other class has to deal with movement and suffer a lot more then arcane. Blink and barrage > movement. Arcane is far from the bottom 3 DPS specs in game.

[Choda]

Faster cast should improve mobility a bit at least.

Took the words out of my mouth. This was probably the intent of the change.

[Ohana]

For those who have trouble understanding, this is more of a PvP nerf than anything. This is still a DPS buff. Damage per second has two factors.. damage and time. If time is decreased, DPS is increased. derp derp do you understand now?

ofc I understand, but arcane's got the 3rd factor: cast faster=less mana=less dmg
And tbh I avoid using Arcane missiles as much as I can cause they're bringing down my dps.

[arel00]

Faster cast should improve mobility a bit at least.

My thoughts exactly

[Slowshi]

ofc I understand, but arcane's got the 3rd factor: cast faster=less mana=less dmg
And tbh I avoid using Arcane missiles as much as I can cause they're bringing down my dps.

I agree that in 4.0.6, the only way to achieve anywhere close to decent dps is purely AB spamming. This is obviously not the intent of Blizzards design. The idea is to be able to maintain high mana which allows you to do more damage while doing a less optimal rotation( ie ab3am). Currently that is not good dps and is avoided at all costs. With the buff to AM and reduced cast time, it's fair to assume that the conserve/maintained dps rotation will be higher than it was. In turn, the spec will be more in line with the way it was intended to be played and not just full AB spam for 90%+ of the fight.