I got shot down for a BoT run because my avoidance is too low?

[hoonboof]

No one says you can't do it, you could probably MT half of normal mode as a Shaman if you were so inclined.

The difference is, though, that this isn't a guild, this isn't a tight knit group. It's a rabble, a PUG, and to that you should usually try to maximize your personal performance to make up for any failings of others.

And yes, stamina is bad to stack, period, there is no debate to this and no one who isn't a "scrub" would be in favor of it. You stacked stamina in the past because healer mana pools were bottomless and bosses in proper content could nearly instagib you.

Healer mana pools are no longer bottomless.

There is no boss in normal mode, that will come anywhere near instagibbing you.

Thus, stamina is rather useless as a focal point. Don't avoid it, take it as aux, but do NOT stack it. Read ANY proper guide from high end tanks and you'll see the exact same thing.

i've pugged 11/12 on my backwater rp realm, how bad are the people you pug with seriously? (i stack stamina)

[LeroyJenkems]

dont listen to these scrubs, you could easily mt 12/12 normal provided you're not retarded

That's what I figure.

I'm extremely casual, so I rarely log on for raiding. When I was free, I got shot down even though I know I'm capable enough to tank every boss.


Now, the reason I reforged the way I did was because it maximized my mastery quite a bit more than if I reforged expertise to mastery.
I fixed that just now, got a slight dip in mastery in favor of more avoidance.

The reason I'm mostly gemmed for stamina is that I thought mastery worked against dodge/parry due to the mechanics of it all. Can't get a large blood shield if you are parrying or dodging more attacks.

I'll fix that too.

[Cloud8690]

Your gear is fine for cho'gall. The rest of it falls on your ability to keep up your debuffs and self buffs like blade barrier. Anything else is on your healers.

[Senbo]

im really sorry but i have to agree with the rest. your avoidance is very low esp for a fight like chogal. one thing id change is the stam gems, im prestty sure mastery is amazing for all tanks atm pure stam on the otherhand isnt.

[Cloud8690]

Stamina is still great, neither is better as far as we know. The main idea floating around is to gem stam up until you hit a certain "soft cap" then start switching them for avoidance or mastery while maintaining that "soft cap".

[Tiolith]

Your legs.
Upgrade your leg enchant and rearrange those JC gems so you get the socket bonus on those legs.
Then I would probably have taken you.
But not unless you do this.

[LeroyJenkems]

Alright, changed a few gems and enchants.

I went from 165k unbuffed in BP to 160k unbuffed.

My avoidance shot up quite a bit and my mastery is about the same.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 06:52 PM ----------

Your legs.
Upgrade your leg enchant and rearrange those JC gems so you get the socket bonus on those legs.
Then I would probably have taken you.
But not unless you do this.

You would shoot me down for a raid because of just my legs? Interesting.

[PlayDohBoy]

Most tanks as of now are Stam and Mastery tanks. With the exception of maybe druids. From what i read everyone says a little different. I wouldn't know i dont tank on my druid. As far as a DK the rule of thumb i have is. If it doesnt have mastery on it make it have mastery on it. All the gems i used where stam and mastery gems and i tanked just fine. I would agree about changing some gems around but to each his own. One thing i did find out is that expertise and hit are really low on the list of things you need to get capped for any tank. At least in this tier. Maybe when we hit the next tier you might want to get capped first but hard to tell until that happens.

[Bluey111]

i've pugged 11/12 on my backwater rp realm, how bad are the people you pug with seriously? (i stack stamina)

even if this was true the healers wouldve hated you for it

[hoonboof]

even if this was true the healers wouldve hated you for it

how so? i have about 25% avoidance maximum, and about 17 mastery, i've never had a single complaint

[Deathquoi]

I second this. More stamina means higher DS heals, which means more healing AND more bigger shields, which even further reduces damage.

No, more stamina does not mean higher DS heals. Unless you only ever DS for the base heal, which doesn't generally happen in raids.

---------- Post added 2011-03-25 at 09:27 PM ----------

30% is REALLY low man... i was at like 80 or so percent avoidance by the time i reached cho gall and cho gall hits like an absolute truck

No, you did not have 80% avoidance. Not even close.

[stacker55]

so.. let me get this straight. we fight every day in threads where DK's think we need hit and expertise

NOW we have people supporting stamina stacking?

as far as ANY tank is concerned stamina has a soft cap. for normals u want 150k unbuffed, for heroics you want 180k unbuffed. give or take

stamina doesnt do anything for you except buffer heals, if you can survive long enough for heals to hit you then any HP you have afterwards is wasted. stamina doesnt make death strike heals any bigger, and if you're gemming straight stam past these unofficial soft caps then you're missing out on mastery and avoidance.

[Inimicus]

As his armory currently stand now, he is absolutely fine to tank Chogall. I'd question the 101 sta over Mastery gems, but since his gears a bit on the blue side, they might give him he threshold needed to make the transition.

Also, like Deathquoi, I've got to call enthusiastic BS on Bluey's 80% Avoidance.

180k unbuffed hps is also far higher than it needs to be. I comfortably tank Heroic Chimaeron and Halfus with 161k unbuffed and Mastery stacking.

[Araya]

I wouldn't take you because of your experience not your gear. 3/6 for BWD and 0/4 for BoT kinda poor looking. Less focus on the stamina gems, go for either pure avoidance for red (Parry) or Parry/Mastery (Fine ember topaz I think?).

I'm by no means super amazing but I do MT and here's mine. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...orrow/advanced

[Deleted]

Hmm. Gemming for stamina is not a good idea. Anyway, your mastery is just imba. I mean those shields are just amazing. But...
If you have low hit and expertise there's pretty big chance for you to miss Death Strike. If you miss DS - all of your mastery is useless, as you don't get healed from missed DS and you don't get shielded. So reforging from hit and exp being so low on both of them is just.. not so clever.
I would suggest changing pure stamina gems to combined avoidance+stamina. I would stand for half an hour and beat that boss dummy with Death Strikes to see how much do I miss them. If you miss them really much - undo reforging from hit and exp.
You don't really need more than 150k unbuffed health for normal mode raiding.

[iceberg265]

There is nothing wrong with "stacking" stam, as long as you don't let your other stats suffer for it.

[LoLHellcy]

dont listen to these scrubs, you could easily mt 12/12 normal provided you're not retarded

agreed; never bought into the "stacking stam for marginal benefits of avoidance is better rawr" attitude....

honestly, gemming stam and gemming things like avoidance have soooooo small an effect... (especially since a full set of gear has like, 10 sockets)

[Merin]

It's wrong to stack stamina, especially in normal modes, because it's full on useless. Stamina stacking was done in the past since it was a buffer zone that played nice with endless mana pools, gigantic heals and instagibbing bosses.

Nowadays it's just a gigantic waste of mana since you're soaking more damage from bosses for no reason. Again, you can get through normal mode with it, sure, however you're putting extra work onto the backs of your peers to do so.

[LoLHellcy]

Hmm. Gemming for stamina is not a good idea. Anyway, your mastery is just imba. I mean those shields are just amazing. But...
If you have low hit and expertise there's pretty big chance for you to miss Death Strike. If you miss DS - all of your mastery is useless, as you don't get healed from missed DS and you don't get shielded. So reforging from hit and exp being so low on both of them is just.. not so clever.
I would suggest changing pure stamina gems to combined avoidance+stamina. I would stand for half an hour and beat that boss dummy with Death Strikes to see how much do I miss them. If you miss them really much - undo reforging from hit and exp.
You don't really need more than 150k unbuffed health for normal mode raiding.

The math has been done. Mastery >>> Exp / Hit, even with shields included

[Araya]

Hmm. Gemming for stamina is not a good idea. Anyway, your mastery is just imba. I mean those shields are just amazing. But...
If you have low hit and expertise there's pretty big chance for you to miss Death Strike. If you miss DS - all of your mastery is useless, as you don't get healed from missed DS and you don't get shielded. So reforging from hit and exp being so low on both of them is just.. not so clever.
I would suggest changing pure stamina gems to combined avoidance+stamina. I would stand for half an hour and beat that boss dummy with Death Strikes to see how much do I miss them. If you miss them really much - undo reforging from hit and exp.
You don't really need more than 150k unbuffed health for normal mode raiding.

You really shouldn't need to reforge to Hit or expertise unless you are having MAJOR threat problems. I generally have between 2-3% hit and 17-24 expertise (depending on weapon/fight) and I never have threat problems unless I forget to switch back to Blood presence. Only time I might say to worry about hit is if you are doing something where you absolutely cannot miss a interrupt, even then there should be more then 1 person for that just in case moment.