Frost Mage Snare DR

[Kunker]

Personally, I watch good, even bad frost mages, control almost anything they want whenever they want. There are just too many spells and procs, so I arise the question to you:

Snare DR: Why or why not?

[Spurmwhale]

Good players can catch/hit mages. Bad mages can get wrecked by good players of other classes. Try kiting and doing damage yourself. Its not nearly as easy as you think, and definitely not as easy as being the chaser doing damage IMO(i have a rogue too). There is also generally risk vs reward snaring targets with Mages but its easy if they're free casting. CoC requires close to melee range, and frostbolts are 2.5~ sec casts to snare. frostfire bolt is a proc so you can't really rely on that as a snare. Otherwise they don't have any persistent snares than those and ever since they took out R1 frostbolt definitely not anything that is fast unless its CoC. A good mage can use CoC real well tho. Its probably the combo of novas and snares that makes people QQ so much about Mage control, but they brought frost damage down a lot(or other classes just got their damage buffed) with the icelance nerfs despite what people think.

Tbh when we had frostbite procs that gave us a ton of control against melee. These days i'd say we have less if anything but more survivability due to the nature of Cata PvP hp's, which gives us a lot more margin for error, which exacerbates the control issue.

[Deleted]

Compare the mage's snare to a hunter's frost trap.

Similar concept, one is totally unbalanced since the frost trap only last for such a little duration and can be run through, whereas the mages one is just stupid to freeze you in the same spot for too long.

[msbxghost]

snares are already a joke with a dispeller, and now you want a DR on it? lol

[Deleted]

Good players can catch/hit mages.

Not if they play a warrior.

I think the novas should be DR'd, yep. And this is coming from someone who plays 3's with 2 dispellers and a warrior.

[Deleted]

Good players can catch/hit mages. Bad mages can get wrecked by good players of other classes. Try kiting and doing damage yourself. Its not nearly as easy as you think, and definitely not as easy as being the chaser doing damage IMO(i have a rogue too). There is also generally risk vs reward snaring targets with Mages but its easy if they're free casting. CoC requires close to melee range, and frostbolts are 2.5~ sec casts to snare. frostfire bolt is a proc so you can't really rely on that as a snare. Otherwise they don't have any persistent snares than those and ever since they took out R1 frostbolt definitely not anything that is fast unless its CoC. A good mage can use CoC real well tho. Its probably the combo of novas and snares that makes people QQ so much about Mage control, but they brought frost damage down a lot(or other classes just got their damage buffed) with the icelance nerfs despite what people think.

Tbh when we had frostbite procs that gave us a ton of control against melee. These days i'd say we have less if anything but more survivability due to the nature of Cata PvP hp's, which gives us a lot more margin for error, which exacerbates the control issue.

Obviously this guy has no clue what he's talking about.

Good players can catch/hit mages.

Are you considering warriors here? Warriors shouldnt even touch you if you got all ur cds up.

Edit; Saw that someone posted the same thing before me.

[Swizzle]

Not if they play a warrior.

I think the novas should be DR'd, yep. And this is coming from someone who plays 3's with 2 dispellers and a warrior.

They are...seriously. Freeze and Frost Nova are on the same DR, and this patch puts SB and Imp CoC on the same DR.

Personally, if you want snares on a DR, then I demand all melee damage have a DR of the same duration.

[Spraxle]

I think the true issue is the actual time on the mage. Once you do blow your CDs (as a melee at least) to reach the mage you have to kill their Frost Barrier, which roots you yet again aswell as now having a fresh Ice Armor debuff for a snare. Once you reach them again Frost Barrier is back up and you're starting all over again minus your CDs. Even as a rogue I have 3 CDs to remove the snares and 1 get to them quickly ability. But the CD on Shadowstep is longer then the CD on Frost Nova, though they rarely have to cast this since they can just rely on Frost Barrier and CoC. At least to me that's their main issue, is just the lack of uptime you can get on them. For every few seconds you're beating on them (and it won't even be on them, it'll be on their Barrier which is getting buffed...) they get 4x or more on you.

[Swizzle]

I think the true issue is the actual time on the mage. Once you do blow your CDs (as a melee at least) to reach the mage you have to kill their Frost Barrier, which roots you yet again aswell as now having a fresh Ice Armor debuff for a snare. Once you reach them again Frost Barrier is back up and you're starting all over again minus your CDs. Even as a rogue I have 3 CDs to remove the snares and 1 get to them quickly ability. But the CD on Shadowstep is longer then the CD on Frost Nova, though they rarely have to cast this since they can just rely on Frost Barrier and CoC. At least to me that's their main issue, is just the lack of uptime you can get on them. For every few seconds you're beating on them (and it won't even be on them, it'll be on their Barrier which is getting buffed...) they get 4x or more on you.

Hold on...a ShS Rogue complaining about uptime on a Mage in PvP? Need to go check to make sure water is still wet and that the sky is indeed still above the Earth.

[Evo33]

They are...seriously. Freeze and Frost Nova are on the same DR, and this patch puts SB and Imp CoC on the same DR.

Personally, if you want snares on a DR, then I demand all melee damage have a DR of the same duration.

roots on dr is now = to melee damage ... this guy is good!

[Swizzle]

roots on dr is now = to melee damage ... this guy is good!

Roots=/=Snares

Also, it was a joke.

[xBloodchargedx]

Not if they play a melee class.

I think the novas should be DR'd, yep. And this is coming from someone who plays 3's with 2 dispellers and a warrior.

Fixed that for ya...

[Maldread]

The kit of the Frost mage is to have a lot of control and emergency buttons. This gives them a high skill cap, both in that it can be hard to stop a good Frost mage and it can be hard for less skilled PvP players to handle even a decent Frost mage. At the high end of PvP, we think Frost mages are balanced. It’s everything below that where they can be frustrating to handle.

for 3% of players mages are fair. for 97% they will roundhouse your face. get f*cked, its final.

oh, and frost mages (all of them) are terrible players. fire mages > frost mages. thats where the skill is.

[Spurmwhale]

Compare the mage's snare to a hunter's frost trap.

Similar concept, one is totally unbalanced since the frost trap only last for such a little duration and can be run through, whereas the mages one is just stupid to freeze you in the same spot for too long.

Thats not even close to a fair comparison. A hunters only weakness is melee ranged. They dominate people outside of that because they have ability shots and no ranged class but maybe moonkin? can stand toe to toe from ranged with one. I mean if you're only going to compare the slow then sure, but its dumb to pretend to compare like that.

---------- Post added 2011-03-31 at 08:18 PM ----------

Obviously this guy has no clue what he's talking about. Are you considering warriors here? Warriors shouldnt even touch you if you got all ur cds up.

Edit; Saw that someone posted the same thing before me.

Yeah you can, if you're good at all at playing one. Good warriors are/were a bitch although i haven't fought too many since their last catch up nerf.

Argue what i said nub. you can't and you won't tell me anything i don't already know about my class.

[Deleted]

Not if they play a warrior.

I think the novas should be DR'd, yep. And this is coming from someone who plays 3's with 2 dispellers and a warrior.

I can see why you would play with 2 dispellers then!

[Spurmwhale]

I think the true issue is the actual time on the mage. Once you do blow your CDs (as a melee at least) to reach the mage you have to kill their Frost Barrier, which roots you yet again aswell as now having a fresh Ice Armor debuff for a snare. Once you reach them again Frost Barrier is back up and you're starting all over again minus your CDs. Even as a rogue I have 3 CDs to remove the snares and 1 get to them quickly ability. But the CD on Shadowstep is longer then the CD on Frost Nova, though they rarely have to cast this since they can just rely on Frost Barrier and CoC. At least to me that's their main issue, is just the lack of uptime you can get on them. For every few seconds you're beating on them (and it won't even be on them, it'll be on their Barrier which is getting buffed...) they get 4x or more on you.

Thats the whole point though. If a Mage doesn't react in split seconds to you he's getting hit. If he screws up one CD in relation to yours, mostly revolving around blink he can completely screw himself. Its like the Ret vs Mage thread but the reality of it is in multi PvP Rets DO hit mages and a lot of times kill them since its not some full CD duel they can abuse everything on one class. EVery class can hit Mages although good ones can minimize it so long as CD's allow. But like i said earlier we have more margin for error in Cata, where as burst of classes in Wotlk especially rogue burst at times took out like 1/2-3/4's life from openers. Pally damage has always had certain periods of being retarded too.

I do agree Rogues are a lot easier for me to handle these days but thats mainly due to high hp pools and wearing high resilience so you're not bursting me anywhere near you used to. Just be thankful we don't still have frostbite.

[Deleted]

Im sorry but far to long has mage had the luxuary of diffrent DR on nearly all the spells they have, ALL stuns be it from any class ATM share the same DR(unless you are a mage, go figure), and compare this to a mage that has 3 diffrent DR for the roots it's ridiculus they never even get the issue of DR at all. all ready when i played on my rogue i thougth it was frustrating but managable. However play a warrior and it is ridicilus if you are a frostmage and you lose to a warrior while both have PvP gear on, you suck. at least when im dueling my mage partner and he is fire i can beat him but even that is really slim, but has frost he out rigth owns me and it's not getting better increasing Icelance dmg and increasing spellreflect CD. all the while blizzard made us belive they want people to Hardcast more, Warlocks,priests shamans are all casting may more than a Frostmage. But i don't blame the mage why even risk against mele casting a frost bolt when you have such good controll allready, just wither him slowly down with icelance.

Shortly put FB dmg way more up, and nerf the CC and make say CoC proc not share DR with the other roots, and make it undispelable.

[Jackmoves]

Rogues have never been in better shape(I've played roughly 3 years). I don't see how we could complain about much at all at the moment, including frost mages, the frost mage need to play pretty flawless to not get run over if you are a decent rogue. We are so extremly well rounded at the moment with no real weaknesses(talking about sub now). Wtlk was fucking hell compared to how great it feels to be a rogue now. Does anyone remember how a 3vs3 game was in wtlk? As soon as you stuck your neck out(got out of stealth) everyone just turned around and started gunning for you. It's quite the opposite now, we are often the least viable target to sit on in games, especially if you play RMP.

To sum it up... it feels great to play a rogue at the moment.

[Deleted]

They are...seriously. Freeze and Frost Nova are on the same DR, and this patch puts SB and Imp CoC on the same DR.

Personally, if you want snares on a DR, then I demand all melee damage have a DR of the same duration.

Yeah I know. Good change, too.

It's totally different though, melee have always had 1 or 2 slows on demand, mages had like 2 novas before Cata, now they have 5. They were fine before, even overtuned at times, putting a DR on melee slows is just absurd. Not to mention the abysmal gap between how a slow works compared to a immobilizing effect.

If it was a joke, disregard this. I fail to see the funneh.

[Jackmoves]

Yeah I know. Good change, too.

It's totally different though, melee have always had 1 or 2 slows on demand, mages had like 2 novas before Cata, now they have 5. They were fine before, even overtuned at times, putting a DR on melee slows is just absurd. Not to mention the abysmal gap between how a slow works compared to a immobilizing effect.

If it was a joke, disregard this. I fail to see the funneh.

Mages only gained CoC root in cata, they had S-barrier, nova, pet freeze(not permanent though). And lost that annoying shit that would proc random novas when you hit them with ice armor(cant remember the name) but it was rng heaven, far more annoying imo since you had no idea when it could happen. Not to mention they lost their dispell protection.