Really stupid pug leaders

[Notharam]

the raid leader in question probably wanted either a fast run, or good geared people. lets say the raid leader in question isnt that knowledgeable when it comes to the game in general. and he has heared that major PvP gear is worse than full PvE. he want it to go as smoothly a possible and hopes that nothing fucks it up. lets say hes pretty nervous aswell because he havent been leading many raids before. now organizing raids, even pugs are tedius and requiers attention. to get the right comps, makign sure the tanks are actually tanks etc. ok all is set. "i need dps!"
whispers are flowing in with people that wants to join and the person leading it needs to keep an eye on both raid chat and all the whispers.
this guy with full 359 promise 20k (blargurlz) dps. inspect, invite. this continues untill 1 spot is left.

now 2 people have whispered him. someone in full PvE, mediocre dps for his gear and achivements for most bosses.
and the other guy is this hunter in PvP items with achivements and all. (reffering to OP)

So the pug leader invites the first guy because full PvE sounds better than some PvP some PvE. beeing pressured by a group that miss 1 guy. probably a few idiots yelling at him to hurry up or they will leave, I too wouldnt bother to much with the choice.
so he has the full group (more or less). and is still getting whisperes form the 2nd guy about checking dummies, about an high progressed main etc. he simply cant give you the time becasue tehy are about to clear the first trash. so he gives you a snide remark to bugger off as he tries to keep his pug from failing.

I guess the point of this post is to make you realize that there might have been more to it than you think.

now take this post, remove all typos and eventuall gramatical errors before your eyes start to bleed (this is what i get for posting at 7am...)

[scyther250]

Some of the people posting here aren't arguing what the OP is talking about, they're just spouting random drivel. Of course 352 PvE will do more DPS than 352 PvP. However, the comparison here is 365 PvP to 346 PvE, and in most cases the PvP wins out, especially considering the set bonuses. PvE gear of the same ilevel would be superior, but that's not on the table. Wearing PvE gear of a low enough ilevel that it'll reduce your DPS just to be wearing PvE gear rather than PvP gear is a stupid thing to do. Use your spreadsheets, do the math, and see for yourself how they compare.

Don't do math or use spreadsheets to compare gear? You have no business talking about what gear is better, then.

[Deleted]

What? You have gotten me wrong, I tried to get across that even though the PvP gear got more stamina = will survive longer it doesnt help if you do lower DPS. My god, I have been so messed up in my head. :s I dont want them to stack stamina, no no no. I am against DPSers with stamina, one of the reasons I dont like PvP gear in raids, lack of off-stats.

Yes, but back at the point I was trying to make:
In the example discussed a player takes two hits of 40k damage from an unavoidable source. It adds up to 80k damage which needs to be healed. I understand your point that if the person would be at 170k health, he would have 90k left and survive another 2-hit combo. There is however no ability in current the current raid tier that will do such amounts of damage in a short time period. That second patch of 40k hits is due to the player being bad. Thus, as long as we are discussing non-hc current tier raids, there is no need to have that much health as a damage dealer or a healer, as 120k is sufficient if you are just playing properly, i.e. avoiding damage. In general, you are likely to find more success in your raiding environment by letting healers increase their healing capabilities and damage dealers to increase their damage output rather than to have them increase their health.
In this particular case, if you have PvP gear that is better than the PvE gear available to you, of course you should go with the PvP gear. But the reason shouldn't be the extra health, as it isn't a valid reason.

[jaykaywhy]

First of all, i think you dont understand the Hunter Class at all, he is doing a normal 10 BWD. If you didnt know this, the Hunter PVP Vicious set is FAR greater then the heroic items you can get out of dungeons. If i was raid leader i would of tested him out. If he was able to obtain a Vicious set he must have experiance playing his class, also i know for a fact that the Vicious Weapons and Gear are better then ANYTHING i could get from a heroic. So you can toot all you want and say PvP gear is for PVP and Pve gear is for PVE, but in the end why would i use a inferior item? Just because its pvp? Psh.

1. Farm both sets.
2. When inspected, put on PvE gear.
3. Before fight, put on PvP gear.

As someone who puts together PuGs regularly, its a pain to "well, let's try this person out", everyone flies there, and the person pulls like 5k less dps than everybody else. Now I have to kick him, hearth back to org, spam trade chat and hold up the raid even longer. Its much easier to tell someone.. No thanks.

Assuming the Hunter Vicious set is better, do you really expect the raid leader to know that? Unless he has a hunter as well, and keeps up on current hunter BiS gear choices, probably not. How many times have you been in a fail raid or dungeon because of someone in PvP gear? It happens more often than not.

And OP, you reek of desperation. If the RL tells you no, why do you bother telling him all these wonderful achievements you have on your main, hunter BiS gear, etc? He told you no. Just move on. You seem like the type that creepstalks girls after being told no for a date.

[hitmanblood]

Ok, i am going to let you know one thing, and you are going to listen carefully.

PVP gear sucks for PVE, if you knew how to properly compare stats you would see that 346 blue's have better stats.
Every point of resilience takes away from another stat.
the set bonuses used to make having the PVP sets viable but they nerfed the set bonus.

TLR

Pug leader is correct
PVP =/= PVE
L2Stat Compare properly.

Well maybe you are a idiot? If you Check any dps spreadsheet, It depends on the level of PVP Gear vs PVE gear. He had a Full set of Vicious, which if you check any spreadsheet is better then any item you can obtain from a heroic asides for Trinkets as a Hunter. Maybe you should Learn your Stats. Also some proper grammar.

[Emane]

This thread contains 100% personal claims and 0% actual facts. Awesome discussion.

http://www.wowhead.com/items&filter=...1620:7.2888%3b

Scaling values for hunters ranking the individual gear pieces and their relative dps output.

As you can see 365 pvp gear rougly equals 346 in pve score except for unique cases.

Using that list and score, leather helmets are better for pve than the epic pvp pieces, in all slots except gloves, where the leather gloves from Wildhammer/Dragonmaw Clan passes the epic pvp gloves.

The scalings ofcourse dosn't take mail spec into it. Still putting the corresponding mail pieces ahead of the pvp gear in all slots except gloves.

[Musra]

Some of the people posting here aren't arguing what the OP is talking about, they're just spouting random drivel. Of course 352 PvE will do more DPS than 352 PvP. However, the comparison here is 365 PvP to 346 PvE, and in most cases the PvP wins out, especially considering the set bonuses. PvE gear of the same ilevel would be superior, but that's not on the table. Wearing PvE gear of a low enough ilevel that it'll reduce your DPS just to be wearing PvE gear rather than PvP gear is a stupid thing to do. Use your spreadsheets, do the math, and see for yourself how they compare.

Don't do math or use spreadsheets to compare gear? You have no business talking about what gear is better, then.

Man, the offset stats are usually better then resilience, even though it gives slightly more main stats, you can lose alot of hit which you then need to waste gems/reforge/enchants just to be capped when you could have it already on your gear, and gem/reforge/enchant something that will boost your DPS slightly instead.

[jaykaywhy]

Some of the people posting here aren't arguing what the OP is talking about, they're just spouting random drivel. Of course 352 PvE will do more DPS than 352 PvP. However, the comparison here is 365 PvP to 346 PvE, and in most cases the PvP wins out, especially considering the set bonuses. PvE gear of the same ilevel would be superior, but that's not on the table. Wearing PvE gear of a low enough ilevel that it'll reduce your DPS just to be wearing PvE gear rather than PvP gear is a stupid thing to do. Use your spreadsheets, do the math, and see for yourself how they compare.

Don't do math or use spreadsheets to compare gear? You have no business talking about what gear is better, then.

Do you normally do spreadsheets to compare gear for classes you don't play?
Neither did the RL.

[Deleted]

Go. Make. Your. Own. Damn. PvE. Raid. Group. If. It's. So. Important. To. You!

[Chareoss]

Ok, i am going to let you know one thing, and you are going to listen carefully.

PVP gear sucks for PVE, if you knew how to properly compare stats you would see that 346 blue's have better stats.
Every point of resilience takes away from another stat.
the set bonuses used to make having the PVP sets viable but they nerfed the set bonus.


TLR

Pug leader is correct
PVP =/= PVE
L2Stat Compare properly.




Read the third post in your other thread, the guy pretty much sums it up.

ROFL Got to be the most dumb and un informed post i have ever read. doesn't surprise me though

[P4R45171K]

No sorry. Try again. PVE gear is there for what? To improve your dps as a hunter. Vicious gear does more dps then heroic blues. Much more. My dps would be more then required, AND i know every fight. But that's not enough why? Look at the stats in comparison. Shall we talk about rocket science now? Fool.

It's that kinda attitude that doesn't get you in raids. If you want to PvE get PvE gear and pull the DPS needed, not wearing PvP gear and say you can do just as well as the next guy. Either tough up and bite the bullet, or juss go back to PvPing. Nuff said.

[Musra]

Go. Make. Your. Own. Damn. PvE. Raid. Group. If. It's. So. Important. To. You!

Damn, you made me take pauses when I read that! xD

[BloodVengeance]

This thread contains 100% personal claims and 0% actual facts. Awesome discussion.

http://www.wowhead.com/items&filter=...1620:7.2888%3b

Scaling values for hunters ranking the individual gear pieces and their relative dps output.

As you can see 365 pvp gear rougly equals 346 in pve score except for unique cases.

^^^^

This x 1000

[hitmanblood]

Using that list and score, leather helmets are better for pve than the epic pvp pieces, in all slots except gloves, where the leather gloves from Wildhammer/Dragonmaw Clan passes the epic pvp gloves.

The scalings ofcourse dosn't take mail spec into it. Still putting the corresponding mail pieces ahead of the pvp gear in all slots except gloves.

Except that Score is extremely flawed. Put those items into spreadsheets, even the ones with haste that are highly valued by spreadsheets are a good amount lower then the 359 Vicious pieces.

[mascaron]

As a pug leader of 12 / 12 normals, I wouldn't take you to my raids. Call me stupid if you want, but I pug better than your main.
Why wouldn't I take you? :

1. Your attitude. Go fuck yourself.
2. I don't have time to take ppl in entry level shit. What I can promise you is this: You wouldn't be topping dps in my pug.
3. I don't mind ppl in some pvp gear, especially if it's 2200 weapons. Some != 4 pc w/ weapons.

If you think the whole world is stupid and it's just you who is smart, I've got some bad news for you. But hey.. go and try to raid lead yourself.

[Triadragon]

Must be a reason this op's MAIN is 11/12

[Fuzzzie]

Yeah. This sort of topic is not needed.

Repeatedly calling people idiots, troll's is only going to earn you infractions.