Unfair for 10mans with legendary?

[Deleted]

Q: How do you plan on normalizing Legendary weapon aquisition rate between 10 man and 25 man raids? If the drop rate is the same for 'shards' in 10 and 25 man raids, this may 'force' 25 man guilds to run 2-3 10 mans in order to maximize shard/legendary aquisition. If the drop rate for 'shards' in 25 man raids was 2.5 times than that in 10 man, it could take a 10 man guild say, 2.5 months to gain a legendary whereas a 25 man guild would take 1 month. - Deathsaint (NA/ANZ)

A: Our main goal is to offer the Legendary in both 10 and 25 without requiring say a 25-player raid to feel like they have to switch to running 10s for the sole purpose of Legendary fragment acquisition (and the same is true for 10s). Our plan is to make Legendary completion take longer to acquire in 10-player raids. The exact ratio will be somewhat obfuscated because of the variation in the amount of fragments dropped per boss based on both raid size and raid difficulty. However, you can plan on it being maybe 2 to 2.5 times faster for the 25-player raid. It should feel analogous to number of Valor points or gold dropped in 25s, and is being treated the same.

Without giving too much away, the Firelands legendary weapon has an amazing story and quest chain associated with it. We think it truly delivers on the fantasy of a legendary weapon.

This was posted by the devs not to long ago quite simply saying exactly as it says.

Me for one think this is pure bullcrap.
Seeing for the fact of as i understand it, it will be shards like uld/icc etc.

Let us look back on how many 25 man guilds who have had 13 bosses on farm compared to 10 mans. Meaning the more bosses you farm the more shards you will recive per week. Now add up this with a 2.5 loot ratio and there will be 4-5 legendaries for each 1 on 10 mans. So unless they do tune 10 mans equal to 25 mans (as if....)

I do raid 10 mans, altough i am a tank so this will not directly affect me besides the fact of my raid team getting BiS items slower.

But do feel free to vote if you think its an unfair solution that the devs have came up with.


/Piko

[Luubox]

25man is where the main competition lies. Its more challenging and more rewarding in the same time, at least thats what I think.

Having a "penalty" for 10man legendaries is more than alright for me.

[Conno]

i shard per boss, divided amongst ten, or one shard per boss divided amongst 25, by my math, to be exactly fair, it should be 2.5x faster to get the legendary in 25 man to be fair.

If you use your brain and think that there will be much more competition for the staff in 25 man, so it's only fair.

think i said fair a bit too often there, fair is fair.

[Cynical Person]

It'll take you an extra week.

Shut up.

[Deleted]

As long as they don't make 10 mans harder than 25 mans again, I'm fine with it. As it is right now, 10 man is more challenging and less rewarding.

[fierceangel]

If gaining a legendary in a 10 man was as fast as a 25 man, then guilds would run 10's to get the legendaries faster. I know 10's are harder than 25's due to less people = no mistakes can be made, but a 25 man guild can easily rotate / replace and have access to pretty much every class to make some boss fights easier.

25man is where the main competition lies. Its more challenging and more rewarding in the same time, at least thats what I think.

Ignorance is bliss? 25 man isn't challenging at all in comparison.

[Surfd]

Why is it unfair? It has exactly the same Fariness that all other 10 vs 25 raid balance has.

Blizzard is not forceing you to raid in a 10 man guild.

One of the perks of 25 man raiding is more loot, more gold, and more VP per Kill in a roughly 2.5:1 ratio for loot.

Honestly, what you are really saying is that 25 man raids should not be more rewarding then 10 mans, and Blizz has already established that that will never be the case.

Simple math says that if 10 man raids and 25 man raids completed the legendary at the same speed, then it would be more efficient to just raid 10 mans. 2.5 legendaries completed by splitting into 2.5 10 mans, vs 1 legendary as a 25 man raid would simply be stupid.

[Gemkin]

I think the effects will be the same:

If they implement an equal droprate on 10 and 25 man, the 25man guilds will run 2-3 10mans for some time and get the legendaries 2-3 times as fast as 10man raiding guilds.

if they implement a droprate on 25man 2.5 times as high as the droprate on 10man, the 25man raiding guilds will also aquire the legendaries 2-3 times as fast..

[Zoma]

A 10 man raiding guild will likely have 2-3 people who can make the staff; a 25 main raid will likely have 5-10 people who can make the staff. Even if the drop rate is higher on 25 man, a 10 man will likely have it on all their casters sooner.

This is assuming the 10 and 25 raids progress at the same speed.

[Varyk]

10 mans are lucky that they're even able to get a legendary. It's absolutely fair.

[Megraam]

Was it more fair with Shadowmourne or Val'anyr?

[Pariah]

Off-Topic:
Only guilds that don't use class stacking think 10-man is harder than 25. They get a taste of having to manage a larger group of characters that a 25-man guild has had to work with.

Personally, legendaries shouldn't even be available to 10-man players. And they should definitely not be available from any normal mode fight (even a small chance). My ALT run shouldn't have a chance at an orange but it will. If Blizzard is going to make them eligible for 10-man players, they can at least make them "earn" it through time.

I'm extremely biased. No need to point it out to me. At least I can admit it.

[Deleted]

.

This is assuming the 10 and 25 raids progress at the same speed.

That is my point, roughly 100 25 man guilds have cleared content, 1-2 10 mans have (Speaking of EU/US) Now.

[Jibjabb]

If it was exactly the same rate every 25m raiding guild would make 3 10ms

So they could get 3 legendaries (1 for a caster in each raid) at the same speed as it would take to get 1 in 25m

I think its fairly obvious why they dont want this... thus the making it easier in 25m.

[Bliq]

If it took just as long time to get it in 10man 25man guilds could effectively divide into 10man groups to obtain the legendary for 2-3 people (depending on raid core size) in the time it would take to get 1 in 25man.

[Auralan]

Uhm... 2,5 times less people who are working on getting it, 2,5 times the time it takes. Problem?

Also, who is forcing you to only collect 1 legendary at a time? The guilds who raid 25 man can chose to try and create 2 legendary staves at the same time. Doesn't seem all that weird to me, since they have twice the people raiding, why not have about 1 legendary per 10 people for them as well? Yes, it's not exactly the same rate, but who really cares? At least at this point in time we don't even know what the stats on the thing are. For all we know it's only good for 1 class.

Really, I don't understand as to why people are confused about this... It's so simple. :s

[Algore]

If gaining a legendary in a 10 man was as fast as a 25 man, then guilds would run 10's to get the legendaries faster. I know 10's are harder than 25's due to less people = no mistakes can be made, but a 25 man guild can easily rotate / replace and have access to pretty much every class to make some boss fights easier.



Ignorance is bliss? 25 man isn't challenging at all in comparison.

And what do you base that on, have you done 25man heroic content? Please if you haven't done any heroic content don't come and comment on the difficulity difference.

---------- Post added 2011-04-06 at 07:34 AM ----------

That is my point, roughly 100 25 man guilds have cleared content, 1-2 10 mans have (Speaking of EU/US) Now.

10man content has been cleared since Mar 11, 2011 12:55 by Just Enjoy Your playing and including alot of other guilds, what is your point, more guilds are "supposed" to clear it? Content doesn't get cleared automatically but you actually have to do something, especially in heroic content. If you think there should be more heroic kills in 10man just because it is 10man you are wrong.

[Belloc]

So, it's unfair because 25-man guilds progressed faster? Oh, I see, you're complaining about how hard 10-mans were, compared to 25-mans. Yeah, they're not much, if any harder anymore. And, with any luck, 10-man Firelands won't be poorly tuned, either.

So, no, there is nothing unfair here.

[Maelstrom51]

25man is where the main competition lies. Its more challenging and more rewarding in the same time, at least thats what I think.

Having a "penalty" for 10man legendaries is more than alright for me.

The majority of the fights are much more challenging in 10 man, actually.

[Varyk]

At least they stopped putting legendaries in end-boss loot tables. That was just ridiculous.