CombustionHelper Threshold

[Muliercula]

Just abit curious to what you fellow mages have your treshold on. Mine is on 13000 atm, but i was wondering if its to low.

[Deleted]

Expect some major changes for 2.8 version about threshold. In short, as LB and pyro dot value don't count toward the formula of combustion (only the presence of it matters), the threshold is likely to be restricted to ignite value.

[Muliercula]

Oh.. oh well..

[Sanji]

Have mine at 14.000 atm, but i'm looking forward to the updated version of combustionhelper. angayelle, mind to post a link when its done?

[Chaoslux]

Wait, so LB and Pyro Dot arent valued in the current formula, or they arent going to be valued in the new formula?

[XtraSharp]

What does the Threshold do?

[Deleted]

Great addon a must for fire mage.
the only critic that can be make is that the value is not enought visible.Potential combustion damage must be linked to parrot or other similar addon and must fix so the potential combustion is visible only if above custom value.
Whit these addon will be near perfection
ty again for your work

[Deleted]

Wait, so LB and Pyro Dot arent valued in the current formula, or they arent going to be valued in the new formula?

In the formula of calculating combustion damage the value of your LB or pyro doesn't matter. it only check the presence of it, you can easily check that by getting naked, cast lb, equip your weapon, cast combustion, note the value, wait for CB cd, cast lb (with weapon), cast combustion, note the value, compare. The two values should be the same but the LB damage were different so we can conclude that the value of LB doesn't matter.
The presence of LB allow us to cast combustion, then combustion is calculated with your current spell stats.

What does the Threshold do?

Threshold is the sum of all dots counting for Combustion damage, when you set a threshold it will check if the sum of all dots go higher than that and then will light up the background instead of doing it only when all dots are up. I thought it worked that way when i coded this feature. Unfortunately it's not so i'll be changing the way it work in next version.

Great addon a must for fire mage.
the only critic that can be make is that the value is not enought visible.Potential combustion damage must be linked to parrot or other similar addon and must fix so the potential combustion is visible only if above custom value.
Whit these addon will be near perfection
ty again for your work

Unfortunately potential Combustion damage is not predictable yet as noone have figured the right formula. It's so unlogical at some point that we couldn't get an accurate formula to model it.

[Deleted]

Hi , sorry about that question which perhaps seems stupid but you mean that there's no need to refresh LB and pyrotechnique dot before using combustion?

[Deleted]

Hi , sorry about that question which perhaps seems stupid but you mean that there's no need to refresh LB and pyrotechnique dot before using combustion?

absolutely no need to refresh it, the result is the same wether there is 1s left or 10s.

[Deleted]

In the formula of calculating combustion damage the value of your LB or pyro doesn't matter. it only check the presence of it, you can easily check that by getting naked, cast lb, equip your weapon, cast combustion, note the value, wait for CB cd, cast lb (with weapon), cast combustion, note the value, compare. The two values should be the same but the LB damage were different so we can conclude that the value of LB doesn't matter.
The presence of LB allow us to cast combustion, then combustion is calculated with your current spell stats.

This is right and wrong.... LB can crit thus have an higher value on a given tick... This does not matter.
The base value tick of LB though does matter, dont know 100% for sure if LB damage is affected by Spellpower/intellect, but for sure the LB damage is recalculated by haste. Given my range in LB tick damage going from 3900 to as much as 5200 non-crit, I am guessing there must be something affecting it other than haste...
See: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i...+Bomb%27%0D%0A

Unhasted (i.e.) it will do 3k damage per 3 seconds, for 1000 dps (added into combustion as well)
Hasted it will do 3k damage per 2.8 seconds, for 1071 dps (added into combustion)

Note the tick damage dont change, the combustion value does... atleast this is what some maths of mine showed a while ago... Think this is on this forum someplace :P

Unfortunately potential Combustion damage is not predictable yet as noone have figured the right formula. It's so unlogical at some point that we couldn't get an accurate formula to model it.

Actual combustion value is indeed predictable, the unpredicatable part of it is Ignite
LB damage / hasted tick time = LBDPS
Last Crit * 40% = Ignite
Ignite / 2 (ticks) / 2 (seconds) .... or Ignite / 4 = IgniteDPS
Pyroblast! dot I am not so sure but I think its something like: Pyro! Base damage * 50% / 5 ticks = PyroTick
PyroTick / 2.4 = PTDPS

Or for Pyro!: Pyro! Base * 50% / 12 = PTDPS

LBDPS + IgniteDPS + PTDPS = Combustion tick
For me this means
LBDPS will range from 3900 to 5200 / 2.5 (my hasted tick time approx) thus 1625 - 2166
Ignite will range from 1120 to 26000 / 4 (ignite duration) thus 280 - 6500
PTDPS will range from 1400 to 2200 / 2.4 thus 580 - 920

From this one can gleam that the big difference (like we all know) comes from having the 'proper' ignite up, my combustion tick can be anywhere between 2500 and 9500 assuming I have all 3 up.
Not having Pyro dot up can cost me up to 1000 of that, or 11k damage overall
Not having LB up can cost up 2200 or 24k total damage on combustion
Assuming I have both LB and Pyro up, it can still vary by about 1k up or down

However Ignite (as we all know) can vary wildly and THAT makes the difference between a good combustion and a sucky one
While it is nice and all the overall difference of a good combustion vs a really bad one isnt that big.
Assume a 5 minute fight, 2 combustions.
Good: 9500 * 11 * 2 = 209000 / 5 / 60 = 696 dps
Bad: 2500 * 11 * 2 = 54670 / 5 / 60 = 182 dps
So it will make a 500 dps swing, unless offcourse you can impact said combustion...

Conclusion of this all, dont worry to much about combustion. Get a decent one going at the time you want it and impact it if you can.
Even if you dont use combustion at all on a single target fight you will be out about ~700 dps as most... More likely to be 450-500 ish.
Which should be less than 5% of your total dps, which is less difference we fire mages can have just from RNG

Just to test above... an exerpt from the log linked earlier as well:

[23:32:15.146] Lambiek Living Bomb Onyxia 4259
[23:32:15.146] Onyxia afflicted by Pyroblast! from Lambiek
[23:32:15.251] Lambiek Pyroblast! Onyxia *30949*
[23:32:15.251] Lambiek gains Volcanic Destruction from Lambiek
[23:32:15.673] Onyxia's Ignite is refreshed by Lambiek
[23:32:15.673] Onyxia's Critical Mass is refreshed by Lambiek
[23:32:15.938] Lambiek Volcanic Destruction Onyxia *5652*
[23:32:16.101] Lambiek gains Impact from Lambiek
[23:32:16.799] Onyxia's Ignite is refreshed by Lambiek
[23:32:16.799] Lambiek Ignite Onyxia 11680
[23:32:17.529] Lambiek Living Bomb Onyxia 3944
[23:32:17.669] Lambiek Pyroblast! Onyxia 1442
[23:32:18.888] Onyxia's Ignite is refreshed by Lambiek
[23:32:18.888] Lambiek casts Combustion on Onyxia
[23:32:18.888] Lambiek Ignite Onyxia 11680
[23:32:18.888] Lambiek gains Hurricane from Lambiek
[23:32:19.186] Lambiek Combustion Onyxia 6272
[23:32:19.683] Onyxia afflicted by Combustion from Lambiek
[23:32:20.118] Lambiek Living Bomb Onyxia 3944
[23:32:20.118] Lambiek begins to cast Fireball
[23:32:20.346] Lambiek Pyroblast! Onyxia 1442
[23:32:20.804] Lambiek Combustion Onyxia 8532
[23:32:20.912] Onyxia's Ignite is refreshed by Lambiek
[23:32:20.912] Lambiek's Ignite fades from Onyxia
[23:32:20.913] Lambiek Ignite Onyxia 11680
[23:32:21.540] Lambiek Combustion Onyxia 8531

30949 pyro crit => 30949 / 2 = 15474 base damage * 50% = 7737 / 5 = 1547 Pyro dot
This in reality deviates a little bit to 1442... not sure how this works exactly but 1442 * 5 / 12 = 600 PTDPS

3944 LB Ticks, the logs are not exact (enough) but it seems to tick every 2.5 seconds or so... 3944 / 2.5 = 1577 LBDPS

Ignite 40% of 30949 = 12379 / 2 = 6189
Ignite 40% if 05652 = 2260 / 2 = 1130 total 7319
My mastery is 11.56 good for 22% + (11.56 * 2.8%) = 54.368% extra DOT damage * 7319 = 3979
7319 + 3979 = 11298
Logs show 11680, so there is probably some difference with the LB time or some rounding difference but with in 3% margin is pretty good IMHO. 11680 / 2 = 5840 IgniteDPS

600 + 1577 + 5840 = 8017 that is not perfect compared to the 8531

I actually did a much closer calculation some time ago:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post10711001
based more or less on this same assumtion... The log I took this from is quite old (23 march) while on 25 March I (finaly) bought and equiped the T11 legs so I dont know if mastery has changed or something... but still just as a raw starting point, I think this is pretty close... granted not perfect, but close.

[Deleted]

Key word in my post is "accurate". if you can prove your formula is working at different stats levels, go for it but so far this is not what i call as accurate.

[makattack]

So I came upon this thread while I was looking for information on combustionhelper and in general how combustion worked. I haven’t found what I’m looking for but after seeing Namliam’s post I had to post a reply.

Namliam, up to the part where you posted the combat log we can sum everything as:

LBDPS + IgniteDPS + PTDPS = Combustion tick

Whether this formula is correct or not is debatable but you attempted to prove that it is correct through your work:

30949 pyro crit => 30949 / 2 = 15474 base damage * 50% = 7737 / 5 = 1547 Pyro dot
This in reality deviates a little bit to 1442... not sure how this works exactly but 1442 * 5 / 12 = 600 PTDPS

3944 LB Ticks, the logs are not exact (enough) but it seems to tick every 2.5 seconds or so... 3944 / 2.5 = 1577 LBDPS

Ignite 40% of 30949 = 12379 / 2 = 6189
Ignite 40% if 05652 = 2260 / 2 = 1130 total 7319
My mastery is 11.56 good for 22% + (11.56 * 2.8%) = 54.368% extra DOT damage * 7319 = 3979
7319 + 3979 = 11298
Logs show 11680, so there is probably some difference with the LB time or some rounding difference but with in 3% margin is pretty good IMHO. 11680 / 2 = 5840 IgniteDPS

600 + 1577 + 5840 = 8017 that is not perfect compared to the 8531

This is where I found multiple flaws.

Accuracy:

The least of the problems I found in your work was accuracy. You could have easily used the combat log to obtain the exact time between each Living Bomb tic and same for Pyroblast! dot tic. This is what it comes out to be:

(Note: I dropped the hours and minutes since those figures were the same.)

Living Bomb:
20.118 – 17.529 = 2.589 sec
LB tic = 3944
3944/2.589 = 1523.37 (dps contribution from LB to combustion.)

Pyroblast! Dot tic:
20.346 – 17.669 = 2.677 sec
Pyro dot tic = 1442
1442/2.677 = 538.66 (dps contribution from Pyro dot tic to combustion.)

Ignite: (Here we begin to see some major flaws.)

First, you added the expected ignite damage from two critical hits which leads me to believe that you are assuming that the ignites are rolling into one bigger ignite which was not the case at the time the combat was logged. Second, the critical hit of 5652 is from a trinket proc from DMC: Volcano and is not a fire spell therefore the damage neither generates an ignite nor contributes to combustion.

Here is what the calculation should look like using only the Pyroblast! crit:

30949 * .4 = 12379.6 (total expected damage from ignite not including mastery.)
12379.6/4 = 3094.9 (dps contribution from ignite to combustion not including mastery.)

So here is what we have so far according to your formula:

LBDPS + IgniteDPS + PTDPS = Combustion tick
1523.37 + 3094.9 + 538.66 = 5156.93 (expected combustion tic not including mastery.)

Lets include mastery into this.

According to your calculation your mastery contributes and additional 54.368% damage to dots. I am going to let your own post from another thread correct this mistake.

The default mastery adds 22% tick damage and my 639 mastery rating adds another 3.56 mastery * 2.8% = 9.97% for a total of 31.97% extra damage

Let’s do the math correctly for mastery:

11.56 * 2.8% = 32.37% or .3237
5156.93 * 1.3237 = 6826.23 (expected combustion tic including mastery.)

Comparing this to the actual combustion tic:

8532 – 6826 = 1706

Note: after the Pyroblast! Crit, the trinket proc providing 1600 intellect may affect combustion dps but I can’t say for certain if it makes up for the difference of 1700 dps.

My conclusion:

Namliam, your calculations are not only inaccurate but have major flaws as well. Either you don’t understand the concepts that you are trying to explain or you are skewing the math on purpose to support your theory. Either way I suggest you do your homework and post things that are both correct and accurate.

P.S. My calculations only serve to show faults in Namliam’s work; I am not supporting his theory. And, sorry for the lengthy post.