How would YOU solve the long queue times??

[obao98]

Haha Im loving this thread

Did you know that 79.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot?! Mindboggling isnt it

You don't have to be a genius to realize that most people in WoW are in fact DPS. And it's those people that cry the most.

But here's something for you. Take a raid group of 10. Assuming everyone has DUAL SPEC, there are 20 specs in the raid. 2 Tanks, 3 are Healers. 5 are DPS. Probably the tanks and healers also have a DPS spec. So now we have 2 Tanks, 3 Healers, 10 DPS. Out of the 5 original DPS in the group 1 is a Mage, 1 is a Lock, 1 is a Rogue, and 2 are Hunters. So they all have ANOTHER DPS spec. So now we have 2 Tanks, 3 Healers, 15 DPS.

What's the % of people from this group that have a Tanking spec? 2 out of 20? 10%. Healers? 3 out of 20. Almost 10% as well. So, the number of DPS specs being played in this group is 80%.

Is that so different from what I said originally?

Also, if you don't agree, you're obviously capable of your own opinions and I accept that

[YouAreAllWrong]

How would I solve it?
First thing that comes to mind is larger groups. Make dungeons set up 1 tank, 1 heal, 4-5 damage dealers. Buff tanks and heals (that would break pvp completely though). Probably get rid of 10s and make raids x3 or x4 of groups. It's still not easy to do though.

[zoarial]

How about, put DPS in an instance with a bot tank and bot healer that do their job but ninja every piece of dps gear (or simply remove DPS items from the roll table without saying so)..

That should give the non-DPS a laugh ^^

[aeir]

The HC's are too long in comparsion to WOTLK.

That's all.

[Umbranex]

There is no real solution, tanking isn't easy, all the stress is on you:
If a mess up happens, people are quick to blame the tank.
If you do mess up, it usually a wipe.
You have to have general knowledge of bosses and tricky trash.
Be aware of your group composition, and available CCs.

Even if you were to revamp a talent tree or 2 to make more classes able to tank, it doesn't change that fact its a high stress role, and the average player WILL NOT find it fun or appealing.
People have to suck it up with 35 min queues, at least you can do something else while you wait instead of waiting in the city on your mount spamming trade chat for an hour or so, you know like it used to be.
To be honest, I would really like to see the LFD tool removed for a month to see the complainers squirm for a bit.

[obao98]

There is no real solution, tanking isn't easy, all the stress is on you:
If a mess up happens, people are quick to blame the tank.
If you do mess up, it usually a wipe.
You have to have general knowledge of bosses and tricky trash.
Be aware of your group composition, and available CCs.

Even if you were to revamp a talent tree or 2 to make more classes able to tank, it doesn't change that fact its a high stress role.
People have to suck it up with 35 min queues, at least you can do something else while you wait instead of waiting in the city on your mount spamming trade chat for an hour or so, you know like it used to be.
To be honest, I would really like to see the LFD tool removed for a month to see the complainers squirm for a bit.

Great ideia.

Looking closely to the issue, Blizzard really is the one to blame. It tried to help people with the LFD tool and people only complain about it. I say remove it, and let people go back to Trade trying to get a group together. That'll teach these annoying whining brats.

[MortalWombat]

How about, put DPS in an instance with a bot tank and bot healer that do their job but ninja every piece of dps gear (or simply remove DPS items from the roll table without saying so)..

That should give the non-DPS a laugh ^^

And now you're off to another thread to make another post bashing DPS?

But really the problem for me with tanking and healing is that it is boring as hell. You don't dodge stuff yourself, you just get the stats to dodge for you. Threat isn't an issue and probably never will be, so you aren't really focusing on that either. I like "tanking" in game where you actively dodge stuff instead.

Really there is no way to make the tank a more engaging roll would work in WoW(or at least engaging enough to compare with action style tanking). So I'm just going to agree with the guy who said make dungeons take 1 tank, 1 heal, and 4-5 dps.

---------- Post added 2011-04-07 at 08:03 AM ----------

There is no real solution, tanking isn't easy, all the stress is on you:
If a mess up happens, people are quick to blame the tank.
If you do mess up, it usually a wipe.
You have to have general knowledge of bosses and tricky trash.
Be aware of your group composition, and available CCs.

Even if you were to revamp a talent tree or 2 to make more classes able to tank, it doesn't change that fact its a high stress role, and the average player WILL NOT find it fun or appealing.
People have to suck it up with 35 min queues, at least you can do something else while you wait instead of waiting in the city on your mount spamming trade chat for an hour or so, you know like it used to be.
To be honest, I would really like to see the LFD tool removed for a month to see the complainers squirm for a bit.

No not really, if that was true then rated arena and BGs wouldn't be that popular. A lot of people actually do love do or die situations, problem here is that once you get past that part tanking is rather stale.

[gaymer77]

Make VALOR & justice points BOA so that the tanks who outgear heroics will still run them to gear up alts.

fixed. Also remove the valor point weekly cap when making valor points BOA. This would mean that geared tanks have a better reason to get on their tanks to farm JP and/or valor points for their alts.

[MortalWombat]

fixed. Also remove the valor point weekly cap when making valor points BOA. This would mean that geared tanks have a better reason to get on their tanks to farm JP and/or valor points for their alts.

Bad idea, we don't want geared people who are clueless on how to play their class.

[Pyrion]

Admit it! Most people play as DPS because they don't have the balls to heal or tank!! Practically every class in the game has a Tanking or Healing tree. And why do people always choose DPS? Because they're afraid (MOST ARE!). And then it's those people that come here CRYING about long queue times. The same people who don't have the balls to play (or AT LEAST have a Healing or Tanking OFF SPEC)!!

I can think of 4 classes that doesn't have neither tanking nor healing specs (rogue, mage, hunter, warlock). That makes 40%. Which means "practically everyone" isn't very close to the truth.
I'm sorry I just reacted so strongly about the incorrect statement.

(sorry for possible typos / grammar fails)

[Morsetlis]

I would hybridize every class. Then people only have themselves to blame.

[kemanorel]

suggestion a: give tanks no cooldown or limit for votekick, but players removed this way don't get deserter (debuff immunity has 30m cd) and have a spot in queue similar to "in progress" groups

suggestion b: deaths give no durability loss when 2+ "luck of the draw" are present

suggestion c: Set a "benchmark" completion time for each instance adjusted by "luck of the draw" stacks and average ilevel. Then give queue nerfs to players who don't clear fast enough.

@not rewarding tanks: If you need capable players to fill a role, do what is needed to attract those players.

[Umbranex]

No not really, if that was true then rated arena and BGs wouldn't be that popular. A lot of people actually do love do or die situations, problem here is that once you get past that part tanking is rather stale.

And those people that love those do or die situations are more then likely already tanking or former tanks.

Yeah tanking is rather stale, now how do you make it fresh then?
I don't think anyone, even Blizzard, has a real solution to make tanking exciting or put innovation in it.

[Butterball]

Most of the DPS in this thread and others on this topic is proceeding on the assumption that there isnt enough tanks and healers because its a boring and hard spec to play. This is a fallacy. There are plenty of tanks and healers. The majority are sitting in guilds and do 5 mans with their guildmates, where they will not get abused for making slip ups and mistakes.

And who can blame them?

[Morsetlis]

Bad idea, we don't want geared people who are clueless on how to play their class.

Geared people clueless on how to play their class > Green-bies people clueless on how to play their class.

And you assume that alts are clueless.

By the time you get to level 85, if you're still clueless, you're a bad player no matter what, and no amount of gear will help with that.

[Deleted]

I find it interesting how everyone talks about tanks... I mean ok, tanking certainly is more of a responsibility and probably less fun than DPSing but honestly in my eyes (tanked at least a Cata 5man normal dunng on all 4 tank classes) tanking is still just like melee dps, only you have the mobs/boss on you.

The shitty part of LFD certainly is healing. People are retards, don't avoid anything, don't use personal survival CDs, don't freaking interrupt even though since Cata there are pretty awful things that better be interrupted.

Tanks in LFD are similiar. Whatever, my only job is to keep stuff on me, let healer worry about everything.

--

How would I solve the queue? Honestly I don't know. I think the way they did it isn't the worst of all. Not only tanks will queue more but it certainly will force some people to respec their offspec or alt or whatever and pick up tanking/healing. Cash, flasks, pets, mounts, who would say no to this?

Pure DPS classes are f*cked though, sorry :P.

[Androner]

saying tanking is not fun or boring is plain wrong.
people may not like tanking but i do...
what will we do now?

also contrary to popular belief, tanking is easier. you have to push some buttons and be aware of your surroundings and health you'll be fine.
its not as hard as lots of people think. its way easier then vanilla/tbc era.

dps is harder, you have to maintain a rotation while dodging things and trying to stand in the right place (for melee), and you have no limit in dps. whereas tanks and healers have jobs which they fail or succeed. dps is a race. And i don't like races.

But getting used to tanking is harder than dps and bad tank causes lots of problems than bad dps. But once you get the basics its easy.

In the end blizzard can't do much thing to change the shortage of tank/heal population. But when you try to enter raids, things change very much. now you need lots of dps, as a tank i struggled to find a spot in our raid group. Could've joined as a dps much faster.

[reverendball]

PROPOSALS TO HELP WITH THE RISING LFD QUEUE TIMES:


1) award extra JP/VP to tanks who COMPLETE consecutive dungeons/heroics

i.e. 70 for the first, as per usual
20 for 2nd completed dungeon
30 for 3rd & 50 for 4th

PROS:
- this will encourage tanks to complete dungeons and not just bail after the boss they wanted loot from
- this will also encourage tanks to queue again, meaning that dps who have already waited their 45mins in queue, have a chance of multiple dungeons for their wait time
- undergeared tanks can earn 346 gear faster, instead of spamming the same 3 lvl85 reg dungeons forever waiting on bullshit drop rates for 333 gear
- raid tanks can earn their epics, giving them a reason to queue in LFD more than once a day, helping out the general populus
CONS:
- every herp derp hybrid and his cat will try and tank, refusing to leave, to get JP/VPs to help their main spec dps gear ( the only real CON here)
- players capped for JP/VP get minimal benefit, as the "badge sink" currently live in game is for overpriced mats of boring
- mass dps qq about tanks getting extra VPs (u get shorter queues tho, duh)


2) drop the prices on JP/VP tank gear

PROS:
- given the likely mass dps qq over tanks being able to earn more VPs in the first option, despite it lowering the dps queue times
dropping the prices for tank gear seems to be the next most viable option
- that way, everyone is still earning equal VP, appeasing the masses, and tanks are able to gear up faster (with ONLY tank gear being cheaper)
more geared tanks == less wipes == faster dungeons == shorter queues
CONS:
- this doesnt really give geared tanks any incentive to come back past their initial daily
- bear druids share JP/VP gear with dpskitties & rogues, so unless they implement a Stam/Dodge heavier weighted set, or have some really random set bonuses (i.e. druid only, reduces agi by X in cat form and increases agi by X in bear form) this is is the only real CON for this option


3) the Oculus/Crusaders bag

PROS:
the infamous Oculus bag
everyone remembers blizz plan to get ppl to run the hated H Occ with a bag of goodies at the end, being a gem and chance at mount (same deal with rep token and chance at extra toc badge from the Crusaders daily bags)
now before you say it, im NOT implying that tanks should get a chance at a tank only mount…… but, perhaps a chance at random materials of increasingly high value for the first 3-4 dungeons per day
ANYTHING from a stack of cloth, to herbs, to volatiles, to gems, to enchanting mats, to pristine hides, to elementium, to chaos orbs, to truegold to maelstrom crystals, whatever
the latter more expensive stuff being rarer and only in say 4th dungeon bags
this can be changed and balanced to include whatever (JC tokens perhaps?)
possibly the implementation of a BOA JP/VP/Rep token, so players can use their tank mains to help their alts.
this encourages tanks to complete consecutive dungeons/heroics by providing them with something valuable to either help them gear or AH for gold
- this is the most enticing option to bring back the geared raid tanks who get no benefit whatsoever anymore from VPs, a chance at something vaulable
CONS:
- again, with the masses of dps QQ incoming, despite this being a viable way to shorten the queue they are complaining about in the first place
- again with the loads of herp derps trying to tank just for a chance on something valuable
- AND adding more RNG into the game like this will inevitably have some crazy luck imbalance
e.g. tank A gets crazy good luck and gets truegold on his 4th dungeon everyday
tank B gets painful fail luck and gets all cloth/herbs in his bags all day (despite being valuable, but the least useful)
leading to more qq on the forums

also, before anyone asks, i have a mage, a tree drood healer and a pally tank as my 85s, various other 80s that will get looked at later
so im not biased towards tanks OR healers OR dps, okiez :P

TL-DR encouraging current tanks to do consecutive runs and new tanks to gear easier will shorten humungous dps queues
option 1 – more vps for tanks (more vps will pull more tanks = more runs = shorter queues)
option 2 – cheaper tank gear (gear up reg tanks = more heroic runs with less wipes = shorter queues)
option 3 – random mats bag for tanks (raid tanks queue for a drop chance at something valuable = roflstomp runs = ?????? = PROFIT)

BANANAHAMMOCK!
This is where you got pointed to because you came back with a predictable answer! Gratz on being a sheep, sir/madam!

1) “that’s bullshit man, cant have tanks earning VPs faster than me man!”
1a) gonna have to give something up in order to entice them to queue more often.
you get a shorter queue in return, be happy

2) “im a healer, why don’t I get any incentives?! I have more responsibility”
2a) healers have a 10 min queue as it stands anyway, adding any incentives to heal more is just gonna increase queue time, why would you want to have to wait LONGER?
2b) specifically in reference to option 2, cant drop the price on heal gear because spriests / eleshammies / boomkin share the spi gear, so cant drop the prices on what can be used as dps gear, see the CON regarding the kitty/rogue gear for possible fixes tho

3) “that’s bullshit man, cant have tanks earning awesome mats for free man!”
3a) he just tanked you through a heroic, hush child, be happy with your shortened queue and the JP/VP he just earned you
3b) its just mats, go farm some geez
3c) see 1a.

4) “im a tank and I don’t want to have to do consecutive runs, this is total bs”
4a) you don’t have to DO consecutive runs if you don’t want to, you can still do your single a day, and get the same bonus as you always have. The extra bonuses are for the ppl who go the extra mile, as it were.

5) “that’s a stupid idea, gearing tanks faster is just gonna make them queue less”
5a) until such time as they have all VP gear for all their specs, options 1 and 2 apply, once they are super epicced out and raid geared, option 3 applies. This covers all possible tanks in all known universes, discovered and undiscovered dimensions

proposal three has just been announced to be implemented on the PTR
ty everyone for your support on the main forums

[Morsetlis]

Nothing except financial / vanity incentives will get me to tank/heal more than 1 heroic a day on each of my alts for the Valor points.

We already know Blizz won't actually give tanks/healers better gear than the dps. Therefore, only financial / vanity incentives remain. Also, any tank/healer hitting level 85 will get full 346 gear within the first week (or day), so that's not even an issue.

Financial: Sure, I love flasks. And gems. Will I run a 30-45 min heroic with a chance of wiping/failing (unlikely, since I am damn good and also good at kicking retards) in order to get a flask, or gems, when I already have a good amount of gold in the bank and a guild that funds the flasks? Unlikely. However, if that bag at the end has a reasonable chance to contain a Maelstrom Crystal? Hmmmmmm.

Vanity: Like Justice Point gears, there's a cap on this. You CAN actuallly collect all the pets/mounts... but, of course, it could be as annoying as Archeology and likewise take forever to get all of them. It really is faster to run the old level 60-70 dungeons for them, but those don't award JP / gold which then converts into Maelstrom crystals, etc..

[Video Games]

Tbh? Allow cross faction heroics. Weird, but it would actually work.