Call to Arms: A Recap

[DeanyKong]

I see an obscene amount of crying related to the new CtA system coming. I'm going to turn the blue post into a bulleted list so you might actually read it in full instead of only seeing what you want to see. I'll even cite exactly where the bullets are coming from:

• This system is implemented to lower queue times. [1]
• The system will only kick in if queue times are long. [4]
• It will automatically detect the least-represented role in the queue, so it can apply to tanks, healers and DPS. [2]
• In the event that Healers and Tanks outnumber the DPS, the DPS will be the ones getting rewards. [5]
• The reward basket will be given upon completion of the dungeon. [3]
• You will only be eligible for the rewards if you solo queue. [6]
• The rewards are as follows:
  • - Gold (Guaranteed) [7]
  • - Rare Gem (Chance) [8]
  • - Spec-related Flask (Chance) [9]
  • - Mini Pet (Good Chance) [10]
  • - Mount (Rare Chance) [11]
• The mount rewards are pre-existing dungeon mounts that are presently farmable by anyone. [12]
• The cosmetic items were decided upon to encourage players no longer requiring gear to queue up. [17]
• Giving players more points/gear as a reward for queueing/being patient is not feasible. [16]
• The reason why dungeon queues are so long is due to the lack of tanks/healers queueing. [13]
• The reason why tanks/healers are not as represented in the queues is because performing said task is far more stressful than DPSing. [14]
• This system is being implemented to help DPS continue their progression at a reasonable pace. [15]

Given these bullet points, let's take a minute to think about what some of these things mean.

• The CtA system will only kick in when queue times are long. [4] We don't know their definition of long yet.
• They have explicitly stated that the mount rewards will only be mounts out of existing dungeons. [12] This means that they only have a very low chance of getting something that anyone in the game can already get
• Tanks and healers tend to gear up fast because of less loot sharing and faster queue times. Because of this, many players who no longer need heroic gear or points steer clear of the dungeon finder. This is why Blizzard decided to go with cosmetic items: it is an incentive that everyone can enjoy. [17]
• Because the players queuing to the CtA must queue by themselves [6], bad players trying to fulfill the role without trying will be easily kicked by the four others. They will not have guildmates to protect their stupidity. [3] Bad players not being kicked is an issue with the vote kick system, not the CtA system.
• In the event that Tanks or Healers out-number the DPS, the DPS will have their chance at a CtA.[2]

Now, with all this having been said, tell me why you see an issue with this system?

In patch 4.1 we'll be introducing Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms, a new system intended to lower queue times. [1] Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue [2], and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon. [3]

Any time the Dungeon Finder queue is longer than a few minutes for level-85 Heroics[4], the Call to Arms system kicks in and determines which role is the least represented. [5] In the case of tanking being the least represented role, the "Call to Arms: Tanks" icon will display in the Dungeon Finder UI menu where class roles are selected, and will also display on the UI when the queue pops and you are selected to enter a dungeon. Regardless of your role, you'll always be able to see which role currently has been Called to Arms, if any.

Call to Arms is meant to lower wait times by offering additional rewards for queuing as the currently least represented role. To be eligible for the additional rewards you must solo queue for a random level-85 Heroic in the role that is currently being Called to Arms [6], and complete the dungeon by killing the final boss. Every time you hit these requirements (there is no daily limit) you'll receive a goodie bag that will contain some gold [7], a chance at a rare gem [8], a chance at a flask/elixir (determined by spec) [9], a good chance of receiving a non-combat pet (including cross faction pets) [10], and a very rare chance at receiving a mount [11]. The pets offered come from a wide variety of sources, and include companions like the Razzashi Hatchling, Cockatiel, and Tiny Sporebat, but the mounts are those specifically only available through dungeons (not raids), like the Reins of the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls, Swift White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace, and Deathcharger's Reins from Stratholme. [12]

This system is meant to address the unacceptable queue times currently being experienced by those that queue for the DPS role at max level. The long queue times are, of course, caused by a very simple lack of representation in the Dungeon Finder by tanks, and to some extent healers. [13] We don't feel the tanking and healing roles have any inherent issues that are causing the representation disparity, except that fulfilling them carries more responsibility. [14] Understandably, players prefer to take on that responsibility in more organized situations than what the Dungeon Finder offers, but perhaps we can bribe them a little. While this system gives tanks and healers something extra, the incentive is being provided so that we can help players in the DPS role get into more dungeons, get better gear, and continue progressing. [15]

While the gold, gems, flasks, and elixirs are OK incentives, we knew we needed something more substantial. We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. [16] We settled on pets and dungeon-found mounts as they’re cosmetic/achievement items that players tend to try to get on their own, so why not change that up and offer them a chance to get some of those elusive pets and mounts in a way that also helps other players? Even if they don't get a pet or mount, or get one they already have, the gold and other goodies still feel rewarding enough that it won't feel like a waste of effort. [17]

We think it's a pretty solid incentive to get tanks and healers queuing, give max-level players another way to collect the pets and mounts they so desire, and above all, to improve wait times for DPS players sitting in queues. In the case of lower level dungeons, it's actually not uncommon for DPS to be the least represented role, and so if this new system works out and we're pleased with the results, we may consider applying this same mechanic to lower level dungeons as well.[b]

Also, before I get about 20 replies saying this: "Oh look, it's this thread again."

[DavidGX]

I'm not complaining about the thread or the CTA system or anything but... DPS getting a chance at the rewards if tons of healers and tanks queued up to the point of out numbering them? Let's not even pretend that's going to happen. Ever. Not even once. We all know this.

[Ashalah]

I'm not complaining about the thread or the CTA system or anything but... DPSing getting a chance at the rewards if tons of healers and tanks queued up to the point of out numbering them? Let's not even pretend that's going to happen. Ever. Not even once. We all know this.

This does happen at lower levels.

[Gyroslave]

has anyone really tried out the new system , or are the threads all based on number munching and theorycrafting? Can we test it on PTR?

[Zaktar]

This does happen at lower levels.

Call to Arms will automatically detect which class role is currently the least represented in the queue [2], and offer them additional rewards for entering the Dungeon Finder queue and completing a random level-85 Heroic dungeon.

Emphasis added.

[Amunetia]

My issue is with this and how it works with the kick system. We will be getting more people queueing as tanks, some of which have no business doing it. As I said in another thread, group kicks terrible tank, new "tank" gets in group they're not better or in some cases worse then the previous tank. At this point the group is pretty much stuck. Now before I get people saying we go through that with dps. You can in most instances get by granted barely with an idiot dps. If you have a tank this bad, you dont stand a ghost of a chance. Now if blizz were to change the way the kick system works because of this idea, then sure its seems good in theory but we'd still have to see how it works when they put it on live servers.

[iceberg265]

My issue is with this and how it works with the kick system. We will be getting more people queueing as tanks, some of which have no business doing it. As I said in another thread, group kicks terrible tank, new "tank" gets in group they're not better or in some cases worse then the previous tank. At this point the group is pretty much stuck. Now before I get people saying we go through that with dps. You can in most instances get by granted barely with an idiot dps. If you have a tank this bad, you dont stand a ghost of a chance. Now if blizz were to change the way the kick system works because of this idea, then sure its seems good in theory but we'd still have to see how it works when they put it on live servers.

So basically, your issue with it is the entire reason that tanks refuse to queue up in the first place.

[Deleted]

Well i don't really know what to think about all this

[Jiraden]

Emphasis added.

Ash was saying "This does happen at lower levels." in response to the guy who said that the dps will never be outnumbered by the tank or healer, and he/she was correct in saying that. This fact was stated in the original blue post.

[commanderbeatdown]

Anyone with even a tenuous grasp on population dynamics and more foresight than a brick will see that this is a fantastic idea.

Even in its initial stages, it is a win-win. Nobody of any class will walk away worse than they are today because of it.

In said initial stages, of course tanks and healers will see this CtA proc more often. However, over time (and being able to see the future very far beyond immediate results and gratification is so very hard for some of you younger players, but bear with me) we will see things even out.

[Mixon]

would there be a prob with giving everyone the reward?

[Jiraden]

Now, with all this having been said, tell me why you see an issue with this system?

Because DPS will still be getting the short end of the stick.

1. DPS will still have the longest queue times.
2. Tanks/Healers, who already don't have to wait as long, will be getting rewarded while DPS are getting shafted.
3. Good pallies/druids who are able to fulfill any role will be heaven. I say good because they're not going to be able to complete a random heroic dungeon if they are undergeared and/or suck. But why should a good player who can fulfill any role be rewarded more so than a good player who doesn't have that option?

The only way DPS will be getting anything extra than what we already get now, the longest queue times, will be if this system causes anyone capable of tanking to queue as a tank rather than DPS and shifts the majority role from DPS to Tank. But c'mon, get serious.

[Conscious]

Anyone with even a tenuous grasp on population dynamics and more foresight than a brick will see that this is a fantastic idea.

Even in its initial stages, it is a win-win. Nobody of any class will walk away worse than they are today because of it.

In said initial stages, of course tanks and healers will see this CtA proc more often. However, over time (and being able to see the future very far beyond immediate results and gratification is so very hard for some of you younger players, but bear with me) we will see things even out.

QFT.

It's almost as if people enjoy sitting in ques for a good long time.

[Spraxle]

As I saw pointed out in another thread, we don't know that those are the only mounts that will obtainable. Those are examples given since they either A) want to leave the door open to adding in the flying mounts (Blue Drake, Blue Proto, the two new cata ones) or B) they didn't feel they should let people know the flyers are included for fear of QQ. I guess I am just posting because your italicized txt makes you look like a know it all/snobby.

[Deleted]

The system is flawed at best as it rewards the people who don't play in LFD i.e. tanks and healers. And the dps sitting in queue for 45mins gets a symphatetic and condescending 'you get nothing but you hey, can play now since we bribed the tanks and healers'.

The day I see a reward on my dps chars, it's the day I eat my words right here. But it will not happen.

[Zaktar]

Ash was saying "This does happen at lower levels." in response to the guy who said that the dps will never be outnumbered by the tank or healer, and he/she was correct in saying that. This fact was stated in the original blue post.

Yes, I can read. At lower levels, people don't have enough abilities to raid, or good enough gear. Is that relevant to the discussion as well?

[Conscious]

The system is flawed at best as it rewards the people who don't play in LFD i.e. tanks and healers. And the dps sitting in queue for 45mins gets a symphatetic and condescending 'you get nothing but you hey, can play now since we bribed the tanks and healers'.

The day I see a reward on my dps chars, it's the day I eat my words right here. But it will not happen.

How is it flawed, those same folks have que'd using the LFD feature.

I mean hey, if you want the long que times be my guest.

[Philenia]

The way you show it. I dont gonna like it=/ I tank or Heal so I never get it since my qeue's are never longer then 2minutes.
Thats fucking bull shit=/

So I dont see no point in qeueing more for some extra bonus since I dont get it.

[Mixon]

maybe the problem witht he current system is that it does not reward anyone enough, i don't see a down side to offering these same to rewards to anyone who q's up solo and finishes the instance.

[commanderbeatdown]

The way you show it. I dont gonna like it=/ I tank or Heal so I never get it since my qeue's are never longer then 2minutes.
Thats fucking bull shit=/

So I dont see no point in qeueing more for some extra bonus since I dont get it.

The beauty of the situation is that nobody is tying you to a chair at gunpoint and making you queue up. However, there are those who will see that "proc" and jump on it while it's available, just because it is a reward that is not always there to seize.

Blizz understands Psychology. You talk tough, but most of you are just a bunch of chicks pecking at a red dot for some seeds.