"You cannot vote to kick for another 2 hrs": Should it be fixed, or left the same?

[xAerithx]

I saw a post about this earlier, but it was locked due to people bashing the OPs questionable kicking habits. I wanted to ask out of curiosity, what everyone else's opinions on the whole "You can't vote to kick for another 2 hr" deal is.
Even though I am primarily DPS, I feel very annoyed by this a lot of the time. There are players who really do not play correctly or simply refuse to participate as fully as they can. I can maybe deal with a bad DPS as long as they aren't running around body pulling or using PvP gear, but bad healers or tanks are a huge problem. I have had healers who will sit around spamming one of their worst heals; subsequently they go OOM and we usually wipe at least 4 or 5 times on one boss. I have had tanks who do not know how to tank, they refuse to pull aggro or use their defensive cooldowns.
I actually had a tank once - who couldn't keep aggro at all - ask me to stop using Obliterate (a part of Frost DK rotation) because the damage it does pulls too much aggro; he then went on to say that all the DK DPS in his guild don't use that move so that he can keep aggro. I asked him to actually use his taunts, and he continued to say I was the problem, even though when I stopped attacking someone else would pull the aggro. Despite the rest of the group attacking him about trying to blame me (because we were unable to VTK him), I just went ahead and left that group. If we could have VTK'd him, the run would of been just fine because he was the only bad group member. I felt bad for the rest of them. Luckily I snagged a guild tank who had logged on instead of facing another 40 minute queue.

So, thoughts?

EDIT: I would like to add that most people I speak to have a 2 hr vote to kick timer off the bat, despite never being able to kick someone in the first place and therefore never initiate kicks. I am not saying I kick people constantly and am getting this. It is always there.

[Littlenumbs]

I have had the same issue with ignorant dps who think "if i cant make the tank do what i say im just going to sit here and not dps." and we cannot kick them for 2 hours or the people who insult everyone through out the entire run for no reason.

Definitely want this fixed.

[Resentful]

Fixed for sure

[SkinnyPete]

Absolutely NEEDS to be fixed.

[Anyankha]

The 2 hour thing is a lil too much, and sometimes u need to kick a 2nd player, but u are unable to. Example. Me and 2 friends Qd for random (I'm in diff guild as them), and my internet that day was really awful, and crashes right before 1st boss in VP. They waited for me like 5 minutes, seeing if i was able to go online again. Eventually they voted kicked me (which I absolutely was expecting and agreed). I got back online 1 min after they kicked me, and they got stuck with a terrible terrible boom that was doing like 7-8k DPS. Of course, they couldn't kick him.

[Deleted]

I have had the same issue with ignorant dps who think "if i cant make the tank do what i say im just going to sit here and not dps." and we cannot kick them for 2 hours or the people who insult everyone through out the entire run for no reason.

Definitely want this fixed.

Lol I normally just put the DPS on ignore and carry on. If they are still causing problems I votekick them.

Have had people pulling 2k DPS in heroics refuse to leave, even after politely being asked to leave. Yes it should definitely be changed and to boot they should be more of a penalty for frequently getting onto a kick cooldown - Because quite frankly it means you are either a bad player and/or an arsehole.

Not being able to be kicked for 30 minutes or 2 hours is a punishment for the the next group that has to put up with said idiot, not the idiot themselves.

---------- Post added 2011-04-09 at 03:19 AM ----------

The 2 hour thing is a lil too much, and sometimes u need to kick a 2nd player, but u are unable to. Example. Me and 2 friends Qd for random (I'm in diff guild as them), and my internet that day was really awful, and crashes right before 1st boss in VP. They waited for me like 5 minutes, seeing if i was able to go online again. Eventually they voted kicked me (which I absolutely was expecting and agreed). I got back online 1 min after they kicked me, and they got stuck with a terrible terrible boom that was doing like 7-8k DPS. Of course, they couldn't kick him.

7-8k isn't THAT bad, have seen many players using one ability and their autoattack as a rotation.

[Jerakal]

I understand the basis behind putting a timer on the vote to kick feature, but I feel like it is far too extreme, I've seen blue posts on the issue, about how we should be more patient with players and try to teach players who aren't doing their best, which I wholly encourage, some people just need to be pointed in the right direction.

But I think, at least in my battlegroup, that roughly 90% of the kicks are completely justified, I cannot tell you how many times PER DAY I get afkers, griefers, and just rude, uncooperative people in my PuG's.

It's one thing when someone isn't doing the best rotation for their class, or is doing something wrong out of ignorance, but then fixes it after you tell them what they're doing wrong, it's quite another thing when a person, either knowingly or unknowingly is holding the group back, and refuses to change in the slightest to help out the group, or meets any criticism by intentionally playing worse, or just being an ass.

These are the people I kick, people who go out of their way to make life difficult for other players, and it seems like Blizz failed to account that you might, JUST MIGHT get two of these people in the same group.

It's a bit vexing.

Let alone one in one group, and ANOTHER in the next group, in either case, it's likely that you'll end up back in the dungeon-finder.

"Hurr Durr" says the tank and/or healer, "Why don't you just re-queue?"

"...", stares the DPS.

[Boloney]

If your able to kick unpleasant players more frequently, there's always the person that gets kicked for no reason.

[Anyankha]

Lol I normally just put the DPS on ignore and carry on. If they are still causing problems I votekick them.

Have had people pulling 2k DPS in heroics refuse to leave, even after politely being asked to leave. Yes it should definitely be changed and to boot they should be more of a penalty for frequently getting onto a kick cooldown - Because quite frankly it means you are either a bad player and/or an arsehole.

Not being able to be kicked for 30 minutes or 2 hours is a punishment for the the next group that has to put up with said idiot, not the idiot themselves.

---------- Post added 2011-04-09 at 03:19 AM ----------



7-8k isn't THAT bad, have seen many players using one ability and their autoattack as a rotation.

I'n a boss fight, it is =/ I don't count trash, since IMO, doesn't matter. They had the 15% buff

[Shamanberry]

Unfortunate necessity.

If they remove it, people would use the vote kick option for whatever reason they felt like - for example, for kicking people just before the last boss so they can laugh at how the person wasted their effort, or 3 people queuing up and vote-kicking everybody that joins their instance for a while just to screw up the queue.

2 hours may be a bit excessive, and it may be worth thinking about to, for example, reset the cooldown after x number of wipes, that kind of thing. But the penalty, unless somebody can think of another way to prevent that kind of behavior, needs to be there (and no, reporting people will not work - we don't need GMs overloaded with this kind of stuff, they take long enough to reply to other issues as it is).

Blame the people that think it's funny to spoil somebody else's fun, not Blizzard.

[Aerts]

The 2 hour thing is a lil too much, and sometimes u need to kick a 2nd player, but u are unable to. Example. Me and 2 friends Qd for random (I'm in diff guild as them), and my internet that day was really awful, and crashes right before 1st boss in VP. They waited for me like 5 minutes, seeing if i was able to go online again. Eventually they voted kicked me (which I absolutely was expecting and agreed). I got back online 1 min after they kicked me, and they got stuck with a terrible terrible boom that was doing like 7-8k DPS. Of course, they couldn't kick him.

He may have been bad but 7-8k dps is plenty for heroics.

[Brasko]

The heart of this problem is Blizzard's supporting of the near-anonymous and consequence-free mass server cluster community in the name of easier loot acquisition. Getting kicked from a dungeon for being a baddy has almost no penalty other than you have to wait for a little while before some other group can carry you through, and that's just not a substantial penalty for being a jackass and ruining four other players' gaming session. Most of the tanks in trade chat selling runs are, in my experience, really terrible, so with the 45 minute queue or so, I only have time to try one heroic per night - if that. It really kills me when I finally get into a dungeon and it's obvious from the onset that it will end in catastrophic failure but that's just the state of the community right now unless you create your own, enclosed social circle for doing anything productive.

Pretty irrelevant tangent, that, but what came into my mind when I read this.

[xAerithx]

I have had the same issue with ignorant dps who think "if i cant make the tank do what i say im just going to sit here and not dps." and we cannot kick them for 2 hours or the people who insult everyone through out the entire run for no reason.

Definitely want this fixed.

Gotta love the troll DPS, almost as if that is what they queued to do. Also, the people who queue with PvP gear for ilvl because their PvE gear is not even 333 yet.

Have had people pulling 2k DPS in heroics refuse to leave, even after politely being asked to leave. Yes it should definitely be changed and to boot they should be more of a penalty for frequently getting onto a kick cooldown - Because quite frankly it means you are either a bad player and/or an arsehole.

Rofl, those are times when I am thinking, "I did more than that pre-raid geared in the beginning of Wrath."

I admit, in the beginning of Cata when everyone was only doing normals or heroics, I was unfairly kicked once from a group for "low DPS" (I knew this because my boyfriend was tanking, and he saw it before he left their group because they kicked me) even though I was the top DPS on recount. All the group members wore Plate armor (including healer- paladin), who wants to guess why they kicked me? :P
So I can understand the reasoning for trying to "fix" the VTK system in cases such as this, but those could also be rare cases since it only happened to me once.

[Anyankha]

He may have been bad but 7-8k dps is plenty for heroics.

For what I was hearing in vent, he wasn't (on trash) attacking the tank's target. I wasn't there, maybe my friends also exaggeratied it a bit.

[xillie]

I've seen my fair share of really horrible dps lately... My simple rule is. If I myself as healer out dps any one of the actual Q'd dps I start a vote kick.

I'm Disc so depending on tank squishiness I can put out around 8-9k dps, If your under 8k and basically banging your head off the wall to me its a gtfo.

I've seen 3k dps on almost every class. I can put up with a squishie tank or a new tank and will work with them, but bad dps or attitudes I kick.

[artemishunter1]

I saw a post about this earlier, but it was locked due to people bashing the OPs questionable kicking habits. I wanted to ask out of curiosity, what everyone else's opinions on the whole "You can't vote to kick for another 2 hr" deal is.
Even though I am primarily DPS, I feel very annoyed by this a lot of the time. There are players who really do not play correctly or simply refuse to participate as fully as they can. I can maybe deal with a bad DPS as long as they aren't running around body pulling or using PvP gear, but bad healers or tanks are a huge problem. I have had healers who will sit around spamming one of their worst heals; subsequently they go OOM and we usually wipe at least 4 or 5 times on one boss. I have had tanks who do not know how to tank, they refuse to pull aggro or use their defensive cooldowns.
I actually had a tank once - who couldn't keep aggro at all - ask me to stop using Obliterate (a part of Frost DK rotation) because the damage it does pulls too much aggro; he then went on to say that all the DK DPS in his guild don't use that move so that he can keep aggro. Even though the rest of the group attacked him about it (because we were unable to VTK him!) I just left that group. If we could have VTK'd him, the run would of been just fine because he was the only bad group member. I felt bad for the rest of them. Luckily I snagged a guild tank who had logged on instead of facing another 40 minute queue.

So, thoughts?

If the tank could not keep aggro and asked you to not use oblibarate, then why did you stop? you could be more geared than him. Just because it is part of your rotation, as a dps, it is your responsibility to watch your threat and do everything you can to not aggro the mobs, even if it detrimental to your dps. This is the reason threat meters like omen was made. to help tanks and help dps maintain lower threat than the tanks.

[xAerithx]

I understand the basis behind putting a timer on the vote to kick feature, but I feel like it is far too extreme, I've seen blue posts on the issue, about how we should be more patient with players and try to teach players who aren't doing their best, which I wholly encourage, some people just need to be pointed in the right direction.

Ugh Blizz...almost no one is willing to take such advice (as you may know). Even if you are as nice as possible, they usually get mad and just keep doing whatever wrong thing they are doing.

[nixcookies]

I understand if there was a small CD on the kicking feature but atm the CD can be ridiculous.

[Deleted]

I'n a boss fight, it is =/ I don't count trash, since IMO, doesn't matter. They had the 15% buff

Trash definitely does matter, I have learnt over the past 3 expansions that a lot of players that say it doesn't just want to go on youtube while the rest of the group does the work.

7-8k is just about acceptable. Although people could clearly be doing better at this range of DPS I am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. The last one that springs to mind was a deathknight only using autoattack and death and decay. I made sure he got kicked as soon as possible.

It's one thing to be doing under the average DPS for your class, it is something else entirely to be playing so badly you may aswell have brought someone levelling in northrend. Although this is not exclusive to DPS, for some reason there are a lot of terrible resto druids on my battlegroup despite them being a solid healing class.

[xAerithx]

If the tank could not keep aggro and asked you to not use oblibarate, then why did you stop? you could be more geared than him. Just because it is part of your rotation, as a dps, it is your responsibility to watch your threat and do everything you can to not aggro the mobs, even if it detrimental to your dps. This is the reason threat meters like omen was made. to help tanks and help dps maintain lower threat than the tanks.

You are merely assuming I don't have Omen, never tried switching targets, or never stopped DPS when I pulled aggro. I did and do all these things, and half the time he didn't even try to pull off me even when I asked him too. I tried not to get overly detailed in my original post, but I guess it is needed from now on.