The best things in life come in threes xD

[Preau]

So like the title says, great things always come in threes.

This thread is just an idea i had while reading a QQ thread that was suprisingly very well written. To sum it up it was basicly, QQ friends, QQ To hard, QQ cant raid with friends.
While reading i came across a very vaild point that i agreed with very much and i wanted to make an entirely new fourm thread just about this one point.

In world of warcraft we have two difficulties as far as raiding goes. (Im not counting heroics because IMO there in a completely diffrent entirely :P)
you have

1. Normal

2. Heroic

And basicly the post was, why not have a third difficulty? more varriety = more choice right? so essentially instead of looking like this ^ it would look more like this

ILVL - 350 1. Basics ( The basics level of a raid would offer players with a much easier level of raiding but with considerably less rewards. For example 50% valor points, they would recieve zero achivements, and the amount of epic rewards would be reduced to 1 epic per boss with a 50% drop rate dropping two other rares. Or something like that. Basicly a ten man "heroic" but with a raid)

ILVL - 359 2. Normal (100% of normal epics and achivements and boss difficulty)

ILVL - 372 3. Heroic (125% of normal epics and achivments and boss difficulty)

In MY oppinion this would allow Casual players the experiance of raiding with their friends and enjoy the game, while at the same time (because of the lockout) not really effecting the better players.
Basic level raids would only have the outmost fundemental machanics of the encounter allowing them to practise for the real deal.
They wouldnt gain any achivements, and they amount of epics would be reduced to 1/2 an epic per boss and 2 rares.
and the amount of epic currency they recieve would be reduced by 50% normal.

In my oppinion this would allow for more "community" everyone has been wanting. Easier raids for thoes who have been QQing. A way to practise for thoes thinking of tanking/healing all without really effecting the more hardcore players.


This was just an idea that i had while reading another post. Id really like to hear what you guys think but to me this is a better soulution then Blizzards current
Give people the epics from the last raid tier.

[Abandon]

There are a number of issues with them doing that, the first of which would be crazy stat inflation like what happened at the end of Wrath.

[Preau]

There are a number of issues with them doing that, the first of which would be crazy stat inflation like what happened at the end of Wrath.

Make the rewards even worse then, even slightly above heroics.

[Chiasmus]

The basics are pretty much covered by heroic dungeons, they're more than enough to introduce people into PvE. Also, in regards to your argument, there are plenty of casual players who are progressing through the current raiding tier. Most of these players you never hear complaining on forums about the difficulty of the content because they're happy with it.

[Mudkiper]

What enjoyment would someone obtain from killing a boss that was even easier then normal mode? I really don't understand why someone would pay for this game to just be able to 5 man 25 man boss's while dribbling over their keyboards.

It beyond easy to obtain 12/12 normal as a 'casual'.

[Choda]

http://www.wowtrack.org/encounters.lua

Look at the numbers of Halfus 25 man heroic. If you are even REMOTELY connected to the PvE raiding aspect of this game and do not have 12/12 at this point then please tell me how you managed this long without forgetting to breathe and dying.

[Shadocaster]

http://www.wowtrack.org/encounters.lua

Look at the numbers of Halfus 25 man heroic. If you are even REMOTELY connected to the PvE raiding aspect of this game and do not have 12/12 at this point then please tell me how you managed this long without forgetting to breathe and dying.

Maybe I am not reading this right, but how can 85% of all 25 man guilds have killed nef normal/75% of 25 man guilds killed heroic halfus, when on wowprogress the totals that are shown are VASTLY different? It just seems a little high that 85% of all guilds have killed nef, when on just my server, only 20% or so raiding guilds are 12/12

[Herecius]

http://www.wowtrack.org/encounters.lua

Look at the numbers of Halfus 25 man heroic. If you are even REMOTELY connected to the PvE raiding aspect of this game and do not have 12/12 at this point then please tell me how you managed this long without forgetting to breathe and dying.

These numbers are beyond bogus... they're implying that there is under 4000 25man and under 50000 10man raiding guilds in the game... compared to WoWprogress' nearly 7000 and nearly 50000 respectively. There's a margin of error missing thousands of guilds, and whats more, it's somehow deriving an 82% success rate on Nefarian normal for 25man guilds from these kill numbers. I have a lot of trouble believing that Nefarian normal has an 82% success rate among ALL 25man guilds.

EDIT: Anyways. I'm not sure adding a 'basic' super-neutered version of the raid that you can successfully sleep through is the right answer. Regardless of the success rates that guilds are or are not having on the end bosses, there's a very high success rate on normal mode, even in 100% trade pugs, on all of the prior bosses. The only ones that have actually given pugs on my alt any real trouble would be Chimaeron and Conclave, just because one requires your pug healers to be good, and the other requires more coordination than you generally get in a pug.

And I acknowledge that I'm not casual... but I would certainly consider my playtime on my alt casual. I don't log him in every day, he doesn't really raid regularly. I certainly don't think I've ever valor capped him in a week. Months after Cata launch and he's hovering around 352 ilvl because I don't really invest much time in upgrading him, so I feel like my experience on my alt (a death knight) is valid here.

[FallenSystm]

The idea isn't all that great. Raiding isn't suppose to be 5 man difficulty and even now normal raids are feeling to me as a grind fest. Just as heroic dungeons. The casual guilds with issues tackling current content is they are not approaching the fight properly, aside from Al'Akir most fights are quite easy and doable in under 10 attempts or less. (With the right approach) I would honestly admit at this point we are speaking at the super casuals. And that is exactly why ZA and ZG are coming out, to allow those players to obtain some higher ilevel gear in hopes that they can clear the content before 4.2. The amount of player base that gets to see end game content compared to BC and Vanilla is much larger now than it use to be. Which I give Blizzard praise for. They even added something for the hardcore guilds with hard modes, which is a wonderful addition. Adding a sub raid bracket would take the amazing feel away from a lot of players in game I feel.

[PBitt]

We kind of had this in Wotlk.

For example, in ICC
10 man normal >251, also extremely faceroll except LK
10 man heroic/25 normal >264 loot
25 Man heroic >272 loot

Two difficulties is fine, I think some of the bosses are a little too unforgiving atm but for the most part I don't see a problem with having to work a little to see all the content on normal.

[Deleted]

I think the situation will take care of itself once 4.2 comes around. Blizzard will probably nerf a lot of Tier 11, making them a lot more accessible for Casuals.

The dedicated raiders can then focus on Firelands.

[Choda]

Obviously the numbers on Wowtrack aren't set-in-stone facts, but they're a rather good guideline based on a medium-sized sample of raiding guilds. The success rate might not be 85%, but you should look at it relatively to e.g. the entrance bosses, i.e. it's not MUCH lower.

[ComputerNerd]

Accessibility to casuals is fine.
Raiding should have a degree of challenge even in normal modes otherwise it serves no purpose whatsoever.
If you are not good enough for normal modes then go get better, you should not have a further watered down version of the content.
Raid content is meant to be above 5-mans, where they are a stepping stone up.
What you want there is to remove that and bring raiding down to 5-mans in a 10-man setting which is pointless.
It removes the progression in skill and offers a cheap route to epics, even if lower are still a substantial improvement which is not earned.