Masculinity.

[Deleted]

This is a two part question.

Firstly, do you feel masculinity in men has declined in recent years, and if so, how would you compare it with previous forms of masculinity?

And secondly, Do you find masculine men more or less attractive (regardless of sexual orientation) and if so, how would you compare them against less masculine men?

Personally I think masculinity hasn't changed too much in the brutish sense. There will always be the rabble that start fights and show zero respect for other or themselves. But amongst people are supposed to be from the better side of society, i.e. college graduates, upper/middle classes, seem to have little to no culture. By culture I mean an interest in world issues, intellectualism, dignity and common decency. Whilst times gone by were not perfect, people are least had some sort of internal dignity and respect for each other and if we still had these same values in modern day times I think we'd see a much higher level of social equality.

To the second, I'm a guy so kinda hard to evaluate it. But for the purposes of this question I will. I think that women prefer men who appear masculine, i.e. well toned, stubble etc. I also assume they like a strong man to look after and care for them without needing the same. I maintain my physical appearance (5 hours gym;_; ) and I rarely ever talk about anything stressing me with my partner but do display my wider array of emotions.

So, what're your thoughts?

[Selkhet]

My thoughts is that men are finally starting to learn that you don't have to act like an angry monkey to be a man.

It's about time, isn't it?

[DionLight7]

My thoughts is that men are finally starting to learn that you don't have to act like an angry monkey to be a man.

It's about time, isn't it?

Women say other wise.

Besides it's kinda hard to define what Masculinity is when there are people who can't do what others consider.

[Acarnak]

I think it really depends on what you mean by masculinity. If you're old guard and consider masculinity to be aggression, violence, a stereotypical love of sports and hunting, etc....then yes, I believe that's (finally) declining.

However, I think other aspects of masculinity are still quite prevalent. Men are still, by in large, very brave, supportive and hard working - all things I would consider to be positive masculine traits.

As for the physical traits, I think that really varies from woman to woman. I know a few women who love polished, "metrosexual" looking men, while others love big hairy viking dudes. /shrug

[Herecius]

Masculinity is the unique ability to fire rocket-propelled grenades from your abs. Few men are capable of this, however.

But really, I think 'testosterone-driven masculinity' needs to become a thing of the past. It just doesn't have a real place in the world anymore, and as a culture, I personally believe we need to move beyond it as some sort of 'standard.'

[IplayWoWpoorly]

I didn't realize hunting and sports were a bad thing. Hmmmmm

[Dispersedshadow]

Men are still, by in large, very brave, supportive and hard working - all things I would consider to be positive masculine traits.

I don't think you can claim those as masculine traits. The majority of women throughout history have been as hard working, supportive and brave as their society allowed them to be.

[Acarnak]

I don't think you can claim those as masculine traits. The majority of women throughout history have been as hard working, supportive and brave as their society allowed them to be.

I would absolutely agree. My saying they are traits of positive masculinity does not exclude them from also being positive feminine traits. In such things, I think men and women are incredibly similar.

[poser765]

I didn't realize hunting and sports were a bad thing. Hmmmmm

They aren't. What is bad is the old fashioned idea that because I have a penis I should like sports or killing things. It's also fairly bad when my masculinity is questioned because I don't engage or really give two shits about them.

[Haven]

Smartest men are capable of thinking like women (in a good sense) at times. Show-off masculinity is a sign of insecurity and lack of confidence. True masculinity lies in the ability to be calm and confident, and to admit it when you're wrong or weak. A true man shouldn't be scared by that.

[Grimbold21]

Did you just say that starting fights is a sign of masculinity?

Those guys are just idiots and cowards. Hell they dont even start fights alone. They do it with their buddies so they dont get their arses handed to them on a silver plater.

[Jijek]

Smartest men are capable of thinking like women (in a good sense) at times. Show-off masculinity is a sign of insecurity and lack of confidence. True masculinity lies in the ability to be calm and confident, and to admit it when you're wrong or weak. A true man shouldn't be scared by that.

lol.. See the problem with that statement is.. Men are always capable of rational thought.

anyways

I do not like how men are becoming more and more androgynous. Evolutionary speaking our lives are becoming increasingly sedentary and muscles and becoming "useless" for lack of a better term. But I feel it's not something we should lose so easily. We should strive to keep the age-old definition of masculinity around.

[mercutiouk]

I think the point is that a lot of western men forgot the whole "being a decent bloke" side of being manly. It's not about being a raging moron or a cad/womaniser etc etc you can still be manly and treat your lady good (it's recommended in fact - chicks who know their appreciated and thought of tend to be a lot nicer to be around).

Said as as a bloke who more or less "gets it" these days.

Basically by all means wrestle tigers, fly helicopers, kick ass at martial arts, play piano etc etc and all the other things that turn ladies heads but they (generally, at least the ones worth bothering with longer-term) like a guy who's a TINY bit sentimental too as that works well with a lot of other things they need.

[Don Lionheart]

I think it really depends on what you mean by masculinity. If you're old guard and consider masculinity to be aggression, violence, a stereotypical love of sports and hunting, etc....then yes, I believe that's (finally) declining.

However, I think other aspects of masculinity are still quite prevalent. Men are still, by in large, very brave, supportive and hard working - all things I would consider to be positive masculine traits.

As for the physical traits, I think that really varies from woman to woman. I know a few women who love polished, "metrosexual" looking men, while others love big hairy viking dudes. /shrug

There are those cases where the man could be viking-esk and metrosexual though. I know that, myself, my chest is hairy and I have a lot of body hair, but I keep myself clean from scraggle on my face, unless my style is a goatee at the time. I keep my hair to a reasonable length, as it it is time for a haircut if it touches my ears.

lol.. See the problem with that statement is.. Men are always capable of rational thought.

anyways

I do not like how men are becoming more and more androgynous. Evolutionary speaking our lives are becoming increasingly sedentary and muscles and becoming "useless" for lack of a better term. But I feel it's not something we should lose so easily. We should strive to keep the age-old definition of masculinity around.

I would disagree with the muscle aspect of that statement.

In my opinion, masculinity has been measured improperly for a long time. People count masculinity WAY too much on the physical aspects and not enough on the personality. For example, the men who treat women like trash but are physically strong would often meet the definition of masculinity in the way it has been used in the past. In High School at the very least (which I leave in 5 weeks thank GOD), I'm hard pressed to find anyone besides myself who'll even hold a door open for a lady, let alone someone who'll use the word "lady."

I feel that even women have a hard time accepting men who treat them well. I'm 18 and have yet to have a girlfriend for reasons truly unbeknownst to me, yet I treat ever lady with the utmost respect (though I won't deny I'm a sucker for a pretty girl). My is just that masculinity has a poor definition because it focuses primarily physical rather than who the guy is in the inside.

-Don

[Selkhet]

Women say other wise.

Besides it's kinda hard to define what Masculinity is when there are people who can't do what others consider.

I am a woman. You fail.

[Dasani]

Well obviously masculinity has declined and will continue to decline.

Men used to have to work hard for a living either hunting or farming (and farming without machines helping every step of the way is some of the hardest and most grueling work there is let me tell you). You used to have to fight to survive and to protect your family.

The more "advanced" society becomes the lazier and weaker and sicker everyone is getting. Teenagers didn't used to have time to be emo and sit around whining about how hard their cushy life is in their temperature controlled, dry, safe homes. They used to have to help their parents struggle to survive.

Nowadays you can live your life without even leaving your house. Work at home, order groceries and have them delivered, etc. People on the whole are getting fatter, lazier, and unhealthier. There are too many jobs where you can just sit around and requires no physical work.

You can be biologically male and have nothing about you manly or masculine at all these days.

Men are meant to be strong and have high endurance so they can do what it takes to provide for their family. They are meant to be aggressive so they can protect their family. Civilization goes against nature, and is why a lot of people can't fit in or deal with it properly. They go emo or they go crazy and just snap because they aren't meant to live this way. You are brainwashed to fight your very instincts and your nature, suppress your urge to fight each other to solve your problems, suppress your urge to run around screaming and shouting to play because your parents don't want you to give them a headache or break anything running around the house. Then you grow up unnaturally and go out into a world that is contrary to how you should be living and spend all your time worrying about money and stress from your job and other nonsense.

Masculinity will continue to decline as the need for it in our world also declines. One day men will probably even be able to carry babies as surrogate mothers, and then it'll be all over as far as manliness goes.

[Hean]

Manliness is a word someone made up, that's about all.
I'm a guy, I'd like to be taken care of and I don't care if it was a guy or girl taking care of me, even though I'd prefer to be the "weak" and them to be the "strong" one, I still find it funny how people overrreact about all of this. If someone cares that much about being masculine they're probably still a bit behind, just saying.

[drake741]

I don't think you can claim those as masculine traits. The majority of women throughout history have been as hard working, supportive and brave as their society allowed them to be.

They aren't exclusively masculine traits, but they are classically masculine traits. As a biological fact, males tend to be the hunters/doers while women tend to be the reproducers. If you ask me, future progenation of the species and the current survival of the species are nearly equal responsibilities, so I think the male/female debate can end there.

To OP: Masculinity has changed from the classical view since the classical view of survival has changed. Food, shelter, and security are still technically necessities, but they are mostly givens for the largest part of modern society. Masculinity has also changed accordingly, as I see it, to meet the current standards. Truly, there are fewer men than a century ago who can start fires with sticks and kill and skin a buck, but there are also more scientists (and other such non-hunter/gatherer types) who can earn money to feed and shelter their family with , et cetera.

Because things have changed, does not mean they are lesser or bad, they are just different. Time is the only acceptable judge of success.

[TheShinyOne]

My thoughts is that men are finally starting to learn that you don't have to act like an angry monkey to be a man.

It's about time, isn't it?

As much as I would like to agree, I see far too many angry monkeys to believe that its fading away. I wish it were, though.

[Jijek]

Manliness is a word someone made up, that's about all.
I'm a guy, I'd like to be taken care of and I don't care if it was a guy or girl taking care of me, even though I'd prefer to be the "weak" and them to be the "strong" one, I still find it funny how people overrreact about all of this. If someone cares that much about being masculine they're probably still a bit behind, just saying.

All words were made up.. nice try.

Simple truth is women don't know what they want. They'll say they want a nice charming guy with a great sense of humor.. and they might. But they're cheating on that guy with the obnoxious asshole all girls claim to hate.