Nefarian 10 man P3

[Selanda]

Ok so my guild has just recently started doing Nef 10 man heres the setup that seems to work best for us:

Prot Pally
Blood Dk (Tank)
Holy Pally
Resto Shaman
Resto Druid
Shadow Priest
Fire Mage
Hunter
Rogue
Fury Warrior

We also have another mage, hunter and lock on hand if we should bring something else.

We have our warrior kiting adds P1 dropping them around the back of the room in between the pylons. P3 we seem to be having trouble with the adds. Prot pally on adds Holy pally healing. The adds just aren't dying, and the prot pally seems to be running non stop. Should we cc the adds at all?
Also placement, what seems to work best? >.< having nef in the center? or the edge. I have read that having a holy pally on the add kiter is what seems best, but should one of the other healers help heal him once the adds hit harder? But yeah I dunno just why the adds aren't dying.
Any advice or input would be Great! Thanks in advance ^_^

[odiodin]

Nef breathing on them will cause them to goto 100% energy too... of course running them through fire will do it...

regardless of positioning, when those 2 things stop happening you'll win.

[Consata]

Well there could be multiple things going wrong here:
1. Nefarians breath is hitting the adds and powering them up
2. The adds are getting hit by fire.

The way we do it is to have Nefarian in the middle and our OT pickes up the adds, when he sees the timer for Shadowblaze he move about 5-10 yards, and this is the only time he moves. This way the fire will never catch up and the adds will never get empowered. When the adds are close to death they do a lot of dmg no matter what you do and we usualy have another healer back him up during electricut to make sure that he wont die from it.

[Dracodraco]

Your add tank is doing it wrong. First off, if youre not using 3 tanks, its crucial that your fury warrior makes them drop in a big pile, all together, and not scattered (makes it batshit insane to pick them up in p3). When your add tank has all adds, he stops 10 yards short of the fire, waits untill theres 5 seconds on the shadowblaze timer, then runs like hell - repeat. Never let them get hit by fire, never move untill right before the shadowblaze is gonna come, keep avoiding it.
As for the healer on add tank, I usually heal ours (resto druid). Holy paladins can't throw AOE heals at the raid as a resto druid can, because theyre all proximity based, and druids hots works *alot* better on the add tank when youre running with the adds compared to the occasional holy shock / WoG. Your add tank should use a CD for crackles when the adds have below 40% energy left.

[Deleted]

Having nefarian in the center is best, however that means that the tank on nefarian has to rotate nefarian aswell to make sure the add kiter is at the side.
He can never have nefarian breath on them.

If the adds are not dying, that means the kiter is not doing his job correct, when DBM timer on Shadowblaz hits ~2seconds he should strafe away from the shadowblaze. He shouldn't be running out of room if you have nefarian in the middle. Might advice him to watch a movie then.

For the healers, a holy paladin is best yes, however you might want to have your resto shaman hopping in when the adds are at 30 energy.

[Selanda]

I'm pretty sure Nef wasn't hitting them with his breath cuz he was across the room with his head sorta facing away. But yeah I am the holy pally, and they put me on the add tank, and I have run into the problem that healing and running while the add tank is taking a crap ton of dmg isn't all that great. It was the OT first time trying out adds, but he did seem like he was running non stop. Does it matter about having a boot enchant to increase his run speed? Also another question. Srry ^_^ I was reading some of the other posts and it seems like a lot of people were pushing 2 crackles in p2 we weren't pushing any. I guess that would help out a lot too right?
We pushed 2 crackles p1, none in p2, and then 40% wipes the rest of the night due to add tank dying.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure Nef wasn't hitting them with his breath cuz he was across the room with his head sorta facing away. But yeah I am the holy pally, and they put me on the add tank, and I have run into the problem that healing and running while the add tank is taking a crap ton of dmg isn't all that great. It was the OT first time trying out adds, but he did seem like he was running non stop. Does it matter about having a boot enchant to increase his run speed? Also another question. Srry ^_^ I was reading some of the other posts and it seems like a lot of people were pushing 2 crackles in p2 we weren't pushing any. I guess that would help out a lot too right?
We pushed 2 crackles p1, none in p2, and then 40% wipes the rest of the night due to add tank dying.

Pushing 2 crackles in phase 2 is beneficial but risky. It depends on your healers confidence in quickly healing up people on platforms. Most of the time you will see it's horribly hard to heal your platform members up before they die to either a possible failed interrupt on blast nova or an unlucky row of shadow barrage.

As for phase 3 add kiting, you can run as much as you want but if your tank has ANY of the adds get hit by either fire or the breath, you increase the difficulty of the encounter immediately due to your offtank's massive amounts of damage taken. Of course if its his first time actually kiting the adds, practise makes perfect. Good luck to ya mate.

Heres how my guild does it:
Normal phase 1 - Get Nefarian to 80-75% before killing onyxia.
Phase 2 - Nuke the adds on platforms, 2 ranged dps takes Nefarian to 72-71%, no more no less.
Phase 3 - Push a crackle straight away, nuke Nefarian with all you got, make sure to rotate cooldowns on top of your raid when the crackles come. If you dont already have someone call out when Nefarian is about to make a crackle happen.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure Nef wasn't hitting them with his breath cuz he was across the room with his head sorta facing away. But yeah I am the holy pally, and they put me on the add tank, and I have run into the problem that healing and running while the add tank is taking a crap ton of dmg isn't all that great. It was the OT first time trying out adds, but he did seem like he was running non stop. Does it matter about having a boot enchant to increase his run speed? Also another question. Srry ^_^ I was reading some of the other posts and it seems like a lot of people were pushing 2 crackles in p2 we weren't pushing any. I guess that would help out a lot too right?
We pushed 2 crackles p1, none in p2, and then 40% wipes the rest of the night due to add tank dying.

Well it's possible, pushing crackles in phase 2 depends if your healers can keep up. If you don't push them, all the pressure is on the add tank, however once he gets the hang of kiting, it's rather easy.

[morphling8]

We push 2 crackles in phase 1, and 1 in phase 2. But the more that your raid can do the better off you are.

I tank nef in the middle and rotate so the add tank doesn't get tail lashed and the adds do not get breathed on. Haven't tanked the adds myself though, so dunno much there other then our add tank is definitely not running the entire time.

[Deleted]

Get Warlock

[Mammoth]

The paladin tank kiting the adds, should slow kite most of the time, and just do short sprints when the shadowblaze is coming in. You could use a hunter to help slow, but it'll probably make things worse unless its extremely well timed.

If he does it right they should reset at least twice. After the 2nd reset let the hunter use slow traps so the paladin can keep the adds out of melee range as much as possible. Just don't waste time running from them when they're not slowed, because you'll run out of room.

Both positionings of Nef are equal. Putting him in middle is easiest for the kiter because he doesn't have to think about a path, but it'll hurt your DPS a bit.

[praide]

Pushing 2 crackles in phase 2 is beneficial but risky. It depends on your healers confidence in quickly healing up people on platforms. Most of the time you will see it's horribly hard to heal your platform members up before they die to either a possible failed interrupt on blast nova or an unlucky row of shadow barrage.

As for phase 3 add kiting, you can run as much as you want but if your tank has ANY of the adds get hit by either fire or the breath, you increase the difficulty of the encounter immediately due to your offtank's massive amounts of damage taken. Of course if its his first time actually kiting the adds, practise makes perfect. Good luck to ya mate.

Heres how my guild does it:
Normal phase 1 - Get Nefarian to 80-75% before killing onyxia.
Phase 2 - Nuke the adds on platforms, 2 ranged dps takes Nefarian to 72-71%, no more no less.
Phase 3 - Push a crackle straight away, nuke Nefarian with all you got, make sure to rotate cooldowns on top of your raid when the crackles come. If you dont already have someone call out when Nefarian is about to make a crackle happen.

Similar to how we do it.
P1 - 2 crackles (we tried doing 3 crackles, but found the last crackle before P2 resulted in folks often not quite being topped off before lava filled the room)
P2 - 0 crackles - (we tried taking a crackle once or twice, but there are already so many things that can go wrong in this phase, pushing a crackle doesn't seem worth it)
P3 - remaining crackles (in my experience, pushing more crackles in earlier phases isn't all that helpful, if the adds are tanked properly, damage is very manageable)


Also, on P3, we actually have the tank continually move. As we get more comfortable with the fight we'll likely try finesing a bit more but for now just brute force continual kiting works for us. The downside of this is that the fire gets spread around more.

[Deleted]

we use 3 tanks

[Deleted]

We used to use 3 tanks as well for our first few kills until the healers felt comfortable having our ret pala kiting the adds with a shield equipped in phase 1. However, this really lengthens phase 3 out to a very uncomfortable length and I wouldnt advise this except to get your add tank more used to the kiting.
I was the add tank for this fight as a pala and i always ensured to stay at 90 degrees to nefs head so as not to get caught by the tail or breath. Use the timers on dbm for shadowblaze and try to utilise holy wrath to stun them at the right time so you dont stun and then leave them in a fireball thats incoming. Other than that use cooldowns freely once the buff starts stacking and use wog and LoH (if needed either on yourself or your healer) in this phase.
It really is just a case of the tank getting used to the movement part of this fight and once he is you will probably do fine. Good luck with the fight. Lastly ensure that the pala tank gets the baradins trinket and glyphs divine protection and essentially he will never take much damage from the crackles if he alternates using those two cds.

[mascaron]

If the adds aren't dying, then he's 100% guaranteed letting them get hit by the shadowblaze, the breath, and/or letting them touch a fire. Any of those can easily cause him to die a horrible death.

What we do is tank nef in the center of the room and have the add tank kite adds around the outside of the room in a circular fashion. With boss timers for the blaze (as well as the actual animation of the ball shooting out from nef) it's not too hard for him to shift as soon as it comes out to prevent the adds from getting hit by it, and then he runs out of range of fire. If he's going to stun the adds, he waits for the blaze to hit and he's sufficiently far enough away that a stun won't be so long that a fire might work its way into hitting an add. As add tank is moving around the room, Nef tank needs to rotate boss so that add tank is always to the side of Nef. This way add tank will never be hit by breath or tail swipe. This forces some raid movement, but it really hasn't been an issue for our guild.

Also, on normal mode in both 10 and 25 we push 3 crackles in p1, 0 in p2. We start p3 around 61-62% on Nef and push the next crackle shortly after the raid gathers on the ground. If you're interested in doing 3 crackles p1, it's rather simple if you time it correctly. Have 1 dps in charge of lowering Onyxia from ~7% (when we stop refreshing dots) to ~150k hp (or lower if they feel comfortable knowing they won't kill). As soon as raid warning for 5 seconds until electrocute comes up, finish off Onyxia. Ideally crackle hits 1-2 seconds after Ony dies, giving ample time for healers to get the raid up while you run to platforms.

[Judgejoebrwn]

If the adds aren't dying, then he's 100% guaranteed letting them get hit by the shadowblaze, the breath, and/or letting them touch a fire. Any of those can easily cause him to die a horrible death.

What we do is tank nef in the center of the room and have the add tank kite adds around the outside of the room in a circular fashion. With boss timers for the blaze (as well as the actual animation of the ball shooting out from nef) it's not too hard for him to shift as soon as it comes out to prevent the adds from getting hit by it, and then he runs out of range of fire. If he's going to stun the adds, he waits for the blaze to hit and he's sufficiently far enough away that a stun won't be so long that a fire might work its way into hitting an add. As add tank is moving around the room, Nef tank needs to rotate boss so that add tank is always to the side of Nef. This way add tank will never be hit by breath or tail swipe. This forces some raid movement, but it really hasn't been an issue for our guild.

Also, on normal mode in both 10 and 25 we push 3 crackles in p1, 0 in p2. We start p3 around 61-62% on Nef and push the next crackle shortly after the raid gathers on the ground. If you're interested in doing 3 crackles p1, it's rather simple if you time it correctly. Have 1 dps in charge of lowering Onyxia from ~7% (when we stop refreshing dots) to ~150k hp (or lower if they feel comfortable knowing they won't kill). As soon as raid warning for 5 seconds until electrocute comes up, finish off Onyxia. Ideally crackle hits 1-2 seconds after Ony dies, giving ample time for healers to get the raid up while you run to platforms.

I agree with this guy. We do it the same way. Takes some practice to time that 3rd crackle in phase 1, but it's best if you can manage it. In phase 3, the OT needs to be able to monitor the Shadowblaze timer well. He can tank the adds in one spot (typically back peddling slowly to avoid the fire), then 2-3 seconds before the next Shadowblaze he starts strafing along the edge to avoid the incoming missile. Once they're coming in 10-second intervals, he can use Holy Wrath with 3-4 seconds remaining then take off. Should give you time to top him off. Always try to stay in front of him as the healer. The Nef tank needs to rotate Nef 180 degrees anytime the add tank is coming around the front side of Nef and should be rotated AWAY from the add tank (i.e. the same direction the add tank is going).

-Judge

[gombudja]

As the add tank in P3 you actually want to stand still most of the time. Only move the adds if the fire is getting too close (backpedal) or if the shadowblaze warning has shown up on your screen (strafe, do not backpedal). Do not use any slowing effects on the adds, or they will not get out of the point of impact of shadowblaze in time.