Why tanks dont wanna do it anymore...

[Weiland]

..... never lost aggro to DPS in dungeons unless they pull before I do, then I usually just let them die.

^this /cheer /salute

[komi54]

Hey there MMO denizens. Im currently getting bitched out by people on my warrior in BF because I cant hold aggro. Wanna know why? Well the first boss I charge in and engage the boss and it was instanly pulled off me by a DK. We kill the boss and he and some ret pally B***h cause he tanked it and not me. DPS Need to learn to wait and not instantly attack. Aggro isnt instant I need to build it up before you go ape shit on the bosses. No wonder why no one wants to tank anymore, its cause people are not patient enough to let tanks get aggro and whine cause they got kicked in the face.
I know this has been a topic shown many times before. so before you mention that I already know thanks :P

Sorry sounds like your doing it wrong.

[apepi]

Only really bad thing is you can not pvp in tank spec,which makes it less wanted and less flexible.

[Pascal]

The point is that DPS need to wait until at the very least the tank has actually hit the mob. In fact, if you charge a mob that doesn't get stunned by the charge effect and the DPS don't wait until you've hit the boss, you'll charge past the boss. It will be behind you and hitting the DPS while you're facing the other direction in an idle offensive stance. It's unbearably frustrating.

[SilkforCalde]

Only really bad thing is you can not pvp in tank spec,which makes it less wanted and less flexible.

Of course you can. Tanks are highly sought after and desired for rated BGs, particularly prot warriors and blood DKs. Arena is not the entirety of endgame PVP. Your comments betray ignorance, sir.

---------- Post added 2011-04-18 at 02:25 AM ----------

The point is that DPS need to wait until at the very least the tank has actually hit the mob. In fact, if you charge a mob that doesn't get stunned by the charge effect and the DPS don't wait until you've hit the boss, you'll charge past the boss. It will be behind you and hitting the DPS while you're facing the other direction in an idle offensive stance. It's unbearably frustrating.

I have no such issues.

[scyther250]

People say it's DPS' responsibility to not pull threat, and to a certain degree it is. That responsibility ends as soon as the tank engages the boss, though. Having never tanked a bit in Cata before, I did a few dungeons as Prot, and had a solid 8-9k DPS every boss. I'm not hit or expertise-capped, wearing DPS gear, or anything like that. I'm just doing my threat rotation the same as any tank should.

You know what 8-9k tank DPS means? It means a DPS would need over 25k DPS to pull aggro, which pretty much never happens. If it does, throw a taunt. So many times I've seen tanks just sit there without taunting. If a tank loses aggro once he's engaged, it's purely a l2play issue on the tank's behalf.

[Maeraranel]

as fury i always wind up pulling aggro somehow or the other QQ
prot is my os and i think im a pretty good tank. no threat issues whatsoever but i swear sometimes, i feel like my fury spec is doing more threat
/sigh 27k dps

[KahnOWhoopass]

I notice the same on my 64 DK. At 60 I was only getting Ramparts, would have to constantly deal with dps plate wearers that would run to the next group while I was still looting (and checking healer's blue bar) then say crap like thy might as well be tanking. I'd never tanked on a DK before, and let the group know that. Solution? I announced to the rest of the group how nice it is to be able to put failbots like that on ignore, so I never have to tank for them again (something I've been doing with flag zergers in EOTS too).
I gave them a chance at first, and suggested they queue as tank - not only faster queues for them, but that'd be one more group running at that time (which is why i usually drop group and requeue even if a party wants to do another, there are other players waiting for tanks).

Tanking is easier than it used to be, but that doesn't mean it's still auto pilot. I have an 85 warrior, 81 paladin, 64 DK, and tank on all of them. Warrior has had a huge change since the days of BC (Wars were greatest on single target, but horrible on AOE). Still, charge > rend > TC is needed for the initial pull, yet people still start DPS before my warrior actually reaches the charge target (usually on a different target, rather than the one w/a big skull over it). 3 GCDs to even start aggro. I've not done much on paladin lately, but was a bit easier provided AS was up, otherwise still took 2 or 3 GCS - without AS grouping caster mobs blows.
DK I find is similar to the warrior, IT > PS > Pest > BB. That's 4 GCDs. It may be easy to nuke down bosses at those levels (like how my marksman hunter never gets instant aim shot), but the learning curve for tanks is all that much more brutal when you get to bosses that will kill a dps quick if they pull that crap.

P.S. DKs don't get taunt ability until 65! Death Grip doesn't count.

[Pepperkake]

Bad dps + Terrible Tank = Aggro issues
Bad dps + Bad Tank = Aggro issues
Bad dps + Decent tank = No problem
Bad dps + Good Tank = You are officially the DPS AND the tank

Good dps + Terrible Tank = Well you are either kicked out of the group, or someone has left by the first 3 trash pulls.
Good dps + Bad Tank = Bottleneck, but atleast you are not buried below the healer on the threat meters.
Good dps + Decent tank = So Smooth
Good dps + Good Tank = Priceless, so priceless

(All gear differences set aside, because let's face it, you can do amazing tanking in blues while playing with epic geared DPS if you just know how to play)
The tank spec is such a great griefing spec, because you can make the life of people around you a living hell, think about it.
Good DPS meet a wall when doing dungeons with crap tanks, you are making the rest suffer by needing to lower us so far down to your level of gameplay, which I think most people would agree upon is a horrible experience, at that point aggro dumping abilities are worth nothing.

If you are somewhat decent at tanking you won't be that evil bottleneck, you will not have problems at all.
And in all seriousness, if the dps are actually pulling before you on trash, just let them die, have a laugh.

TL;DR
Tanks set the boundaries, if you learn to set them high enough, you will never have aggro issues again.

[Twotonsteak]

Hey there MMO denizens. Im currently getting bitched out by people on my warrior in BF because I cant hold aggro. Wanna know why? Well the first boss I charge in and engage the boss and it was instanly pulled off me by a DK. We kill the boss and he and some ret pally B***h cause he tanked it and not me. DPS Need to learn to wait and not instantly attack. Aggro isnt instant I need to build it up before you go ape shit on the bosses. No wonder why no one wants to tank anymore, its cause people are not patient enough to let tanks get aggro and whine cause they got kicked in the face.

I know this has been a topic shown many times before. so before you mention that I already know thanks :P

I'm going to do something dangerous and "assume" that by "pulled off me by the DK" meant said DK used Deathgrip. If the DK did use Deathgrip, which is a taunt, then let him tank it and hope he dies.

I don't tank, at least not yet. I do have a couple DPS, and a couple healers. I DO pop all my CD's as soon as I can with my DPS, but typically that also involves threat mitigation such as Mirror Image. And the only time I've yanked aggro is with a bad tank and a very lucky string of crits/Hot Streak Pyroblasts....or I just go ape-sh!t with the AoE's, at which point I expect to die unless I have Invis/Iceblock off CD.

Now if I'm on a healer, and I see a DPS being an idiot, using Death Grip or pulling before the tank even engages, I WILL warn them...once. If they continue being tards after that first warning, they stop receiving heals. If they want to create an issue and vote-kick me or the tank, good for them. With any luck they'll receive a healer/tank just as mentally challenged as they are.

In the end you only need to remember one thing: For all of their complaining, YOU are the one with instant que's. Either they can shut up and deal, or they can wait a very long time for another tank.

[Weiland]

In the end you only need to remember one thing: For all of their complaining, YOU are the one with instant que's. Either they can shut up and deal, or they can wait a very long time for another tank.

So not true i had to wait 1min the other day in que (j/k) but yes ^ so true

[Ealyssa]

Of course you can. Tanks are highly sought after and desired for rated BGs, particularly prot warriors and blood DKs. Arena is not the entirety of endgame PVP. Your comments betray ignorance, sir.[COLOR="red"]

Because PVE spec = PVP spec ?

Sry man, you're totaly wrong. Protection warrior and blood DK are nice in 10RBG BUT they need specific PVP spec, just has every class/spec in this game (obviously at decent rating, nobody care if you win at 600 in PVE spec, you can win throwing your point blindlessly at that level).

So tank spec aren't viable in PVP, but protection spec may be viable (useless protpal say hi). And that's sadly totaly different.

[Athael]

Of course you can. Tanks are highly sought after and desired for rated BGs, particularly prot warriors and blood DKs. Arena is not the entirety of endgame PVP. Your comments betray ignorance, sir.

Hi again, SilkforCalde! Still up to your old tricks, I see (And by 'old tricks', I mean, making sweeping, declarative statements, hedging them with a "You're wrong/stupid if you disagree with me" and still, somehow, despite all that rhetoric, managing to be completely and horribly misinformed!).

Saying "Arena is not the entirety of endgame PvP" is the same as saying "Raids are not the entirety of endgame PvE." Yes, it's technically true, you could also do heroic 5-mans, but at no point could you say that grinding daily heroics is on the same level as actual raids.

The thing is, rated battlegrounds are a dismal failure and disappointment. Blizzard themselves have come out multiple times as stating that both the PvP playerbase and the developers themselves, are unhappy with how rated BGs have turned out. Most people are still heavily favoring arena right now. The top PvPers focus on arena.

Tank specs have a place in arena too, yes, but with regard to your other comment, arena is the elephant to rated BGs' mouse, in competitive endgame PvP right now. Rated BGs are a joke, and require some serious design tweaks before they can be a legitimate avenue for competitive play.

[SilkforCalde]

Hi again, SilkforCalde! Still up to your old tricks, I see (And by 'old tricks', I mean, making sweeping, declarative statements, hedging them with a "You're wrong/stupid if you disagree with me" and still, somehow, despite all that rhetoric, managing to be completely and horribly misinformed!).

Saying "Arena is not the entirety of endgame PvP" is the same as saying "Raids are not the entirety of endgame PvE." Yes, it's technically true, you could also do heroic 5-mans, but at no point could you say that grinding daily heroics is on the same level as actual raids.

The thing is, rated battlegrounds are a dismal failure and disappointment. Blizzard themselves have come out multiple times as stating that both the PvP playerbase and the developers themselves, are unhappy with how rated BGs have turned out. Most people are still heavily favoring arena right now. The top PvPers focus on arena.

Tank specs have a place in arena too, yes, but with regard to your other comment, arena is the elephant to rated BGs' mouse, in competitive endgame PvP right now. Rated BGs are a joke, and require some serious design tweaks before they can be a legitimate avenue for competitive play.

Dude, I stopped replying to your trolling for a reason. You're laughably wrong here like you were in that other thread. On my realm, RBG is as popular as arena if not moreso. You get unique titles and mounts from both arena and RBG. You can buy all the gear using RBGs. To claim that they are not a viable means of PVP progression because you don't like them is absurd and stupid. Good day.

---------- Post added 2011-04-18 at 03:16 AM ----------

Because PVE spec = PVP spec ?

Sry man, you're totaly wrong. Protection warrior and blood DK are nice in 10RBG BUT they need specific PVP spec, just has every class/spec in this game (obviously at decent rating, nobody care if you win at 600 in PVE spec, you can win throwing your point blindlessly at that level).

So tank spec aren't viable in PVP, but protection spec may be viable (useless protpal say hi). And that's sadly totaly different.

How is it different? Prot warriors are tanks, regardless of if they are PVE prot or PVP prot. They perform very similar roles. In PVE, a tank holds the attention of mobs. In PVP, a tank holds flags or defends a node, in both cases, holding the attention of the players and directing their damage to where it won't make a valuable impact.

If you are PVE arms, you have talents like Executioner and Battle Trance. If you are PVP arms, you do not have those talents. Claiming that a tank spec is not viable for PVP because it is not identical to a PVE spec is meaningless. No PVE specs are as good as PVP specs. In all cases. Many classes use an inferior for PVE spec such as frost for mages to PVP in at all.

---------- Post added 2011-04-18 at 03:19 AM ----------

I notice the same on my 64 DK. At 60 I was only getting Ramparts, would have to constantly deal with dps plate wearers that would run to the next group while I was still looting (and checking healer's blue bar) then say crap like thy might as well be tanking. I'd never tanked on a DK before, and let the group know that. Solution? I announced to the rest of the group how nice it is to be able to put failbots like that on ignore, so I never have to tank for them again (something I've been doing with flag zergers in EOTS too).
I gave them a chance at first, and suggested they queue as tank - not only faster queues for them, but that'd be one more group running at that time (which is why i usually drop group and requeue even if a party wants to do another, there are other players waiting for tanks).

Tanking is easier than it used to be, but that doesn't mean it's still auto pilot. I have an 85 warrior, 81 paladin, 64 DK, and tank on all of them. Warrior has had a huge change since the days of BC (Wars were greatest on single target, but horrible on AOE). Still, charge > rend > TC is needed for the initial pull, yet people still start DPS before my warrior actually reaches the charge target (usually on a different target, rather than the one w/a big skull over it). 3 GCDs to even start aggro. I've not done much on paladin lately, but was a bit easier provided AS was up, otherwise still took 2 or 3 GCS - without AS grouping caster mobs blows.
DK I find is similar to the warrior, IT > PS > Pest > BB. That's 4 GCDs. It may be easy to nuke down bosses at those levels (like how my marksman hunter never gets instant aim shot), but the learning curve for tanks is all that much more brutal when you get to bosses that will kill a dps quick if they pull that crap.

P.S. DKs don't get taunt ability until 65! Death Grip doesn't count.

No, it is only one GCD to start pulling AOE threat as a prot warrior. Your rotation is deeply flawed, no wonder people pull threat off you.

Do this.

Charge -> Thunder Clap -> Shockwave -> Rend -> Thunderclap

Fill in abilities like Cleave and Revenge during cooldowns. Lowest priority is Devastate.

[Weiland]

Charge -> Thunder Clap -> Shockwave -> Rend -> Thunderclap

Fill in abilities like Cleave and Revenge during cooldowns. Lowest priority is Devastate.

I would think Shockwave would come b4 TC and rend would come b4 TC ..

[Athael]

Dude, I stopped replying to your trolling for a reason. You're laughably wrong here like you were in that other thread. On my realm, RBG is as popular as arena if not moreso. You get unique titles and mounts from both arena and RBG. You can buy all the gear using RBGs. To claim that they are not a viable means of PVP progression because you don't like them is absurd and stupid. Good day.

That's funny, I thought you stopped replying to that thread because you got tired of every single other person on that thread calling you out on how wrong you were, and how worthless your advice was.

Nobody's saying that rated BGs aren't viable. You can, as you say, get the same gear and stuff from them as you can arenas, plus some fun extras. What I'm saying, and what Blizzard agrees with, is that they're a broken and unfun means of progression. Arenas have their share of implementation problems, but they're downright elegant when compared to RBGs.

This is the reason that rated battlegrounds have undergone so many iterations since Cataclysm's beta. From scrapping AV, to scrapping 15 man BGs, to re-adding 15-man BGs tuned for 10 players, to constantly tweaking and retweaking the amount of time it takes to cap, to COMPLETELY REDESIGNING WARSONG GULCH?! It's like Death Knights back in WOTLK - It took many, many patches (Arguably a whole expansion) before they stabilized. It'll be the same with RBGs. Blizzard is unhappy with them, a lot of good players are unhappy with them, and arenas are more accessible, a more competitive playing field, and frankly more fun.

[Weiland]

saw this in a sig .. and felt it applied to this topic ..

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

[Dhurn]

I would think Shockwave would come b4 TC and rend would come b4 TC ..

It depends how trigger happy your group is and how good your mitigation is. Groups with shitty/slow dps you can sneak in the rend, groups that nuke as you pull you want to TC first to be safe and then you can spread rend on the second TC. As for shockwave, you don't want to use it that early for a couple reasons

1. Your rage will be shit with no mobs hitting you, thus no cleaves and less threat/dps
2. If you wait until youve taken some hits and lose some hp it's a good avoidance cooldown, giving your healer a chance to get you back to full while mobs are stunned.

My personal order is (shout if it's up):
charge+zerk rage > cleave+rend > tc+shield block > SS > shockwave > tc

With zerk rage glyphed and especially with shout available, you can sneak in the cleave at the start to establish healer-proof threat while getting your rend up.

[Spondoo]

Well I can tell you why I don't tank anymore. It's become increasingly faceroll each expansion. Well mainly BC=>WotLK and now it's just ridiculous.

Heroic Throw => Charge+taunt(lol)=> shieldslam =>faceroll dev/rev/ss

and you will never lose threat single target.

groups: charge => rend => clap+cleave => swave => faceroll

[Xuany]

That's why you gotta stay ahead of the DPS not them ahead of you. If your healer can keep up to some chain pulls and if he needs mana wait a little bit. Even with eager DPS I don't have issues with threat, unless it's trash and I charge in and half the trash runs by me, then it gets messier than it should be and I get annoyed.

How I pull AoE trash is Blood Fury (racial) > Inner Rage > Charge > Rend + quick Cleave > TC > Cleave some more till Inner Rage falls off then Shockwave or Shockwave sooner if I take to much damage or the healer can't keep up. Shockwave at the beginning of a pull can lead to messy pulls. First off they are stunned and aren't attacking you leaving you with little to no rage while DPS are pounding their buttons I save it for last also more effective with higher Vengeance stacks.